The secret to dueling: Hidden Advantage

[Cloudstrife 189]

Here's the link to my last article(which has the links to all my other articles).

The secret to dueling: Coming up to Tier

Disclaimer

*This concept is very hard to explain fully. A lot of people use this concept all the time but I don’t think it has been properly named so I’m going to name it. I’m going to try my best to explain it as I see it. All comments and suggestions to better fix my understanding of this concept would be much appreciated.

Welcome to my next article, The secret to dueling: Hidden Advantage.
Sorry that it took so long for my next article but I hope it doesn’t disappoint.
I was going to post this article prior to SJC Austin to inform players on what to expect. However, I’m very happy that I didn’t. After going X-2 at yet another SJC, and not topping once again *sigh*, I feel that I have even more insight to share with you. I truly feel that the secret to this current format lies in this concept of hidden advantage and knowing what card(s) can produce it. First, let me share with you hidden advantage as I see it. Hidden advantage can be looked at in two ways: the concept itself and the cards that help generate the concept.

Hidden advantage is the concept of cards (either itself or other cards) gaining advantage off the fact that either itself or other cards have gone back to the deck/grave/rfg.

A few examples of popular monster cards creating this advantage are as follows:

Mezuki
Dimensional Alchemist
Necro Gardna
Vayu
Mystic tomato
D.D. Survivor/scout plane
Gladiator Beast Equestte
Almost all boss monsters (Judgement Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, Gyzarus, etc)
Etc…

The reason I call these cards hidden advantage is because of the fact that they don’t always create advantage, thus, they aren’t a “plus 1.” These cards only have the potential to create advantage. Cards like Mezuki and Vayu aren’t very good on their own, but if their equivalent counterparts exist in the grave as well, then they will indeed continue to create advantage even after they are destroyed. You can’t count on all these cards to always create advantage, but if you manage to get your initial combo(s) initiated, they will add more power to your arsenal. Cards like Mezuki/Vayu can at least attack for some damage and block a few attacks as well. However, their real potential shines once you have them in the grave. Just like necro gardna, being able to choose when to activate their effects is critical in maximizing their potential.

All boss cards, but more specifically, monsters, tend to create an insane amount of advantage, but once again, only if your combo hasn’t been disrupted. Cards like DAD will create advantage assuming that you can summon it. If your opponent disrupted you earlier with Macro Cosmos/Royal Oppression/Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror/Etc, DAD will be the last card you want to draw.

Hidden advantage for spells/traps is any card that has the potential to create more advantage then just the average 1-for-1 trade off. However, I feel that we need to also go a little more specific on this definition. These cards usually create more advantage based upon how successful your strategy has been going so far this duel.

Example of some popular spell/traps that create hidden advantage:

Beckoning Light
Charge of the Light Brigade
Burial from the Different Dimension
Etc

Once again, if your combo has been executed properly this duel, these cards will add even more advantage to your team. Cards like beckoning light/burial from the different dimension are extremely weak at the beginning of the duel, but become border line broken towards the end. Charge of the Light Brigade creates its hidden advantage by setting your graveyard up for future use while also granting you a free lightsworn monster in the process.

Now, these cards are called HIDDEN advantage because the amount of advantage generated by these cards tend to come as a shock. Cards like Mirror Force and Torrential Tribute use to be “hidden advantage” a few years ago when they use to catch people off guard. However, because they are so heavily played in almost EVERY deck these days, I don’t think there is much “hidden” about them. They just create PURE advantage. Same can be said about Pot of Greed. I just want to emphasize my point an additional time, Hidden advantage cards are “Hidden” because they MAY or MAY NOT create advantage. I find all hidden advantage cards to be combo specific.

Now, let me start connecting some pieces together. I’m going to list a few examples of how hidden advantage may be generated. When I duel against a player and I just destroy and send their third dark monster to the graveyard, I don’t usually think twice about it because it was something that eventually had to be done. However, when they proceed to drop a Dark Armed Dragon on me, they start gaining much more advantage from that third dark monster then I initially planned. HOWEVER, if they don’t have Dark Armed Dragon, then I’m in a very safe place to be. Another example that happens a lot comes from dueling against Lightsworn duelists. If they mill 2 Judgement Dragons, and three honest, that can either be VERY good or VERY bad depending on if they have their hidden advantage card Beckoning Light. Without beckoning light, I’m in a very safe spot knowing that I can attack with immunity from honest and without the fear of them dropping a JD in retaliation. However, if they do have Beckoning Light, then I just lost because they now have access to the strongest cards in their deck. My last example deals with Gladiator beasts. Sometimes it is very good to know that their Bestari is in the grave and only accessible to them by two other cards (equestte and darius). I know that they won’t be searching for it via Proving Ground or tagging out to destroy a spell/trap anymore. However, if they do manage to get access to one of those two monsters, then their bestari is going to be right where they want it followed by Gyzarus.

Obviously this list goes on and on because a lot of people are exploiting this concept this format. Now, if we look at SJC Austin specifically, almost every deck was focusing on this concept and these cards in one way of another. Some decks I dueled against tried using the Lightsworn concept of milling an insane amount of cards to load their grave with Mezuki/Vayus/etc. If they were successful, then they got more advantage than normal. They had the normal advantage that the lightsworn monsters posses but also received the advantage of the “Mezuki” they just sent to the grave. The problem with this concept comes from what I expressed in my last article: The secret to dueling: Coming up to tier. By playing too many “hidden advantage” cards, their decks tend to be too inconsistent. Their hands get clogged with cards like Mezuki,Beckoning Light,necro gardna,JD and burial from the DD. All of them can be game breaking at the right time, but obviously there isn’t enough “circulation” to get the combo rolling in the first place. However, once they got their combos going, I was quickly overwhelmed by them, their full field, and the myriad of cards still left in their hands.

To start wrapping things up, hidden advantage can be a hard concept to understand. The cards that generate this concept can be good because they can serve multiple purposes even after they’re destroyed. They can be very bad because they take time to set up and can slow down your initial strategy before you can initially get it flowing. How many hidden advantage cards you play should be based on how often you’re use to getting your combos off. If you play with a LS deck and never have problems milling effectively, then you could afford to play some more monsters that trigger while in the grave like vayu/mezuki. However, if you’re playing in a Meta where people constantly main deck “Dimensional Fissure” and such, then these cards may be very poor choice to play. This concept is best countered by disrupting the flow of their deck. If their hidden advantage card(s) can no longer create that extra advantage, then they become just a minimal threat. If my opponent can’t keep any zombies in his graveyard to combo with Mezuki, then I won’t mind destroying Mezuki without hesitation. However, if my opponent has 20 other zombie monsters in the graveyard, then I start second guessing myself before graving the Mezuki.

In conclusion, it is your choice on whether to make your deck more focused on this concept or not. There are definitely pros and cons that should be considered that I expressed prior. A lot of expert players are exploiting this concept and it seems to be working in their favor. However, if you’re having consistency problems already, then this concept will only slow your deck down further. As always, any comments and tips are greatly appreciated and I’ll end again with a famous quote.

"Test,fail,adjust..."

Thanks for reading,
Cloudstrife 189


P.S.

Special thanks to Xu, the Lightsworn Sage here on the forums for helping me properly explain this concept. It was much appreciated.

[vynedemina]

I liked the article. Although I think you the term you were looking for was graveyard manipulation, I guess hidden advantage was an okay term to use.

[Boltizar]

good read

really sums up the reason i don't believe in the "+1 -1" thing
it's not what the cards do with you, it's what you do with the cards

[Vaizard_Bankai]

I beginning to think of the graveyard as a second hand. Good Article.

[Cloudstrife 189]

Originally Posted by Vaizard_Bankai

I beginning to think of the graveyard as a second hand. Good Article.

As glad beast players think of their deck as a second hand

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by Boltizar

good read

really sums up the reason i don't believe in the "+1 -1" thing
it's not what the cards do with you, it's what you do with the cards

Some cards like mirror force and torrential tribute always seem to generate natural plus 1's though, but that isn't hidden advantage lol. There's nothing you have to do or set up to trigger them off. Atleast, not as much...

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by vynedemina

I liked the article. Although I think you the term you were looking for was graveyard manipulation, I guess hidden advantage was an okay term to use.

It's not just manipulation of the graveyard though. I had to include the RFG and deck due to the rise of Glad beast players and DD survivor decks being played currently.

[Scaled Wurm]

Once again enjoyable read Cloud. I agree with all your points in here. I wonder if I played you in Austin. I was one of the few BW players without any Vayus =(

Scaled Wurm

[iProxy]

We usually call those "Floaters"

[sunasd]

Originally Posted by Scaled Wurm

Once again enjoyable read Cloud. I agree with all your points in here. I wonder if I played you in Austin. I was one of the few BW players without any Vayus =(

Scaled Wurm

LoL

like me when i played teledad without dads..

[jnsayqua]

I don't think anyone who plays this game a lot will learn a lot from this, but it certainly highlights the reliance on the graveyard of the current top decks, so it should prove helpful for new players who don't really understand that there is more than one type of advantage. If that's what you were going for you did a good job. I think you should mention somewhere that these hidden advantage cards can be used to make paying the costs of things like Divine Wrath less painful though.
It would have been better if there was a bit more on consistency issues, some analysis on where consistency becomes an issue would have been nice, perhaps looking at the number of these "Hidden advantage" cards each top deck plays. Just a thought. It depends which group the article is aimed at I guess.

[Haku-lives]

Very nice article! I believe this will help me quite a bit with my Macro Monarch deck. ^_^

[Cloudstrife 189]

Originally Posted by Scaled Wurm

Once again enjoyable read Cloud. I agree with all your points in here. I wonder if I played you in Austin. I was one of the few BW players without any Vayus =(

Scaled Wurm

hmmm..possibly. PM me and send me a pic or something and remind me who you are lol

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by jnsayqua

I don't think anyone who plays this game a lot will learn a lot from this, but it certainly highlights the reliance on the graveyard of the current top decks, so it should prove helpful for new players who don't really understand that there is more than one type of advantage. If that's what you were going for you did a good job. I think you should mention somewhere that these hidden advantage cards can be used to make paying the costs of things like Divine Wrath less painful though.
It would have been better if there was a bit more on consistency issues, some analysis on where consistency becomes an issue would have been nice, perhaps looking at the number of these "Hidden advantage" cards each top deck plays. Just a thought. It depends which group the article is aimed at I guess.

It's kind of hard for anyone who plays this game as much as me to learn anything from any of my articles. Obviously if you play daily and attend all the big events on a regular basis, you understand all this stuff because you are immersed in it. However, for people who can't duel and travel as much as they should, these articles are intended to keep them updated and informed on what they should be considering.

Thanks for your input though. Maybe I should direct my articles more to a particular type of audience though.

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by iProxy

We usually call those "Floaters"

Not quite, but your way of thinking is on the right track.

[Tcwalter]

Well written, but I can't say I learned anything. I'm sure it will help people who didn't already get it.

[Aquaman]

a lot of people like myself are just getting inspirated by articles like this one. even if we know this things, having a text that explains u what u already know, is a really great way to have those thougts in ur mind most frecuently. as always ur great making clear ur point. 5/5 keep it like this!

[CBass08]

There needs to be a way to subscribe to a user to know when they make new articles. You'd be the first person I'd subscribe to =D.

[Ricky Evans]

I always envisioned the idea of "Hidden Advantage" as being the favourite going into the game and not really being determined initially by the actions taken throughout the course of the game.

Like for example the advantage a "Macro Monarchs" deck initially has going into a game with "Lightsworn."

But then again what do I know?
5 Stars my friend, good read.

[Raven Tobias]

Originally Posted by iProxy

We usually call those "Floaters"

That's what I was thinking. I thought all these were referred to as floaters. Cards that end up replacing themselves in some way?

Non-the-less, good read man.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Originally Posted by Vaizard_Bankai

I beginning to think of the graveyard as a second hand. Good Article.

I used to have that same feeling about my RFG pile..until they banned Dimension Fusion & limited RftDD.

I totally enjoyed this article & would be the first to point out that Ojama Trio creates massive 'advantage' at the same time as being a '-4'..lol

However, a more indepth reply and synopsis will have to wait, until this bout of ADD that I have totally vanishes..

*oh look..a pretty butterfly....chases it*

PS..I was also going to mention the word 'floater'..but I see now I was beaten to it.

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by CBass08

There needs to be a way to subscribe to a user to know when they make new articles. You'd be the first person I'd subscribe to =D.

It's called your 'buddy list'.

[CBass08]

Originally Posted by The_Dark_Monarch

It's called your 'buddy list'.

It's never updated me on my friends threads =O

[darkstriker00]

Another nice read cloud. Would supervis fall under the category of hidden advantage since when it gets sent to the graveyard i gain back a gemini?

[SupremeZ]

hey, how do you sub a thread? ;D

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Originally Posted by ThatsWhatSheSaid

hey, how do you sub a thread? ;D

You see up the top there? it says 'Thread Tools'..click on that & then 'Subscribe to Thread' & then add your subscription...voila.

[JRoth]

great read, whenever my group or myself is building a deck we make sure to look for these concepts

[Xu, Lightsworn Sage]

Floaters are limited to cards that will gain their advantage once the timing is right. I think hidden advantage goes beyond those cards. Exploiting combos like the Alien synchro and swords of revealing light/other continuous spells/traps and also cards that are immune to certain effects. They force the opponent to use extra resources and create an extra advantage.

Additional Comment:

Another good example of hidden advantage is armor master. If he attacks a lightsworn monster and they have an honest, they will have to discard it to keep their monster alive. In another situation the attacking monster would die. This is an example of hidden advantage.

[PsyKnz]

Good read and I'm not sure if this is strictly talking about floaters since cards like necro gardna don't float, but they do give this kind of advantage cloud is talking about. Similarly I don't think gadgets (the typical floater) for example give anything other than raw advantage.

I understand why it was hard to give this a name, I probably would have called it something like indirect advantage personally. Alternately it could just be considered synergy (where one play/option boosts the power of another) as opposed to advantage maybe.

[Kudou Shinichi]

In my Deck I usually save these hidden advantages if I know my opponent does not have any way of preventing this from happening. Take for example, early game I dump a Malicious and Plaguespreader in my Graveyard, and my opponent is playing Blackwing. I know that they don't main (I sure hope so) any cards that will counter my strategy in late-game. When we're both in a top-decking situation, I can top-deck a dead card for PSZ, remove Malicious to Special Summon a copy and shuffle the dead card back in the Deck; I can Synchro into Colossal, Dark End, or Stardust. But if I'm dueling against a GB player, I know that some of them main a Retiari, so I save up these cards until I can revert the game under my control.

Good read Cloud.