Go Back   Pojo.com Forums > Yu-Gi-Oh! > Yu-Gi-Oh TCG Q & A
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-26-2011, 07:13 PM   #1
mikeholland
Pojo Veteran
 
mikeholland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 3,458
iTrader: 0
mikeholland is on a distinguished road
Default herald of the orange light

i wonder how many people have used this card incorrectly... or are they? i was just looking over a game i had where my opponent orange lighted my veiler.. and i just now realized it was an illegal play, because veiler isnt a card i control, because its in the graveyard. *unless* cards that activate in the hand are cards i control, which.. are they? im not sure

people have probably been negating sangans and tengus and effect veilers and gorz's and a works of cards that it probably cant actually negate.

also theres a thread active right now in this forum about herald vs a gladiator beast vs war chariot, and the war chariot was illegal... but was the herald even legal? a gladiator returns to the deck as a cost to activate, so would it still be able to negate it? surely a monster in the deck isnt an "effect of a monster your opponent controls" although obviously glads dont activate in the deck, so the effect activates on the field. would an effect activating "on the field" be an effect of a monster controlled by the opponent? can herald negate lonefire? can it negate veiler?

the real question here is what situations satisfy "the effect of a monster your opponent controls" and what situations do not.

"select 1 monster your opponent controls and destroy it" ive seen this effect before, and it cant hit cards in hand, so orange light cant hit veiler/gorz i know that for sure, even though people probably have done it

Last edited by mikeholland : 09-26-2011 at 07:26 PM.
mikeholland is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:21 PM   #2
phoenixrawr
Was here all along
 
phoenixrawr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,580
iTrader: 0
phoenixrawr is on a distinguished road
Default

You are correct that you do not control cards in the hand or in the graveyard. A controlled card is one that is on your side of the field.

HOWEVER, Herald of Orange Light doesn't actually care whether or not you control the monster. It's just a poorly worded card. What it means to say is that your opponent has to control the effect. It would be better worded as "When your opponent activates an Effect Monster's effect..."
phoenixrawr is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:25 PM   #3
mikeholland
Pojo Veteran
 
mikeholland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 3,458
iTrader: 0
mikeholland is on a distinguished road
Default

but thats not what it says, and ive read no relevant ruling to state otherwise, and has never been errata'd
mikeholland is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:29 PM   #4
Bawb
Living in 2004
 
Bawb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,753
iTrader: 0
Bawb is on a distinguished road
Default

Trust us, it's the wording. Herald can basically negate anything/anywhere.
__________________

Your future is cancelled.
Bawb is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:30 PM   #5
Redshift
Pojiwadai Elite 4
 
Redshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 45,733
iTrader: 105 (100%)
Redshift is on a distinguished road
Default

"Herald of Orange Light" can negate the activation of monster effects that activate on the opponent's side of the field, their Graveyard, their hand, their Extra Deck, and while banished.
__________________
● Number VI of the YGOrganization
Hunting Numbers: 86

RC-1, RC-2 & PC-1 Certified
3DS Friend Code: 2208 5236 3793
Redshift is online now  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:32 PM   #6
mikeholland
Pojo Veteran
 
mikeholland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 3,458
iTrader: 0
mikeholland is on a distinguished road
Default

"because a bunch of people say so" is nowhere near good enough, sorry
nothing against either of you.. its just not good enough

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
"Herald of Orange Light" can negate the activation of monster effects that activate on the opponent's side of the field, their Graveyard, their hand, their Extra Deck, and while banished.
why? wheres the ruling for it i want to see it where did you get that information

Last edited by mikeholland : 09-26-2011 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
mikeholland is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:32 PM   #7
Redshift
Pojiwadai Elite 4
 
Redshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 45,733
iTrader: 105 (100%)
Redshift is on a distinguished road
Default

That's how you will find it ruled at a YCS. That's also how it is ruled in the OCG.
__________________
● Number VI of the YGOrganization
Hunting Numbers: 86

RC-1, RC-2 & PC-1 Certified
3DS Friend Code: 2208 5236 3793
Redshift is online now  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:34 PM   #8
mikeholland
Pojo Veteran
 
mikeholland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 3,458
iTrader: 0
mikeholland is on a distinguished road
Default

thats not even really relevant.. people rule wrong all the time, and unless youre getting your information from somewhere other than word of mouth thats all it is. i understand youre of greater knowledge and authority than i am but this time "because we say so" isnt going to satisfy me
mikeholland is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:37 PM   #9
Bawb
Living in 2004
 
Bawb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,753
iTrader: 0
Bawb is on a distinguished road
Default

"I dislike how a card is ruled and even though my question has been answered I shall keep challenging that answer until someone tells me what I want to hear."
__________________

Your future is cancelled.
Bawb is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:38 PM   #10
Martiachan
Kochiya Sanae.
 
Martiachan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,000
iTrader: 0
Martiachan is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bawb View Post
"I dislike how a card is ruled and even though my question has been answered I shall keep challenging that answer until someone tells me what I want to hear."
To be fair, all he's asking for is a official source.
Martiachan is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:40 PM   #11
Asherpotter
The Frank Veteran
 
Asherpotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belle Harbor, NY
Posts: 5,422
iTrader: 91 (100%)
Asherpotter is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martiachan View Post
To be fair, all he's asking for is a official source.
Then he should ask Konami, not Pojo.
__________________
Asherpotter is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:40 PM   #12
Bawb
Living in 2004
 
Bawb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,753
iTrader: 0
Bawb is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martiachan View Post
To be fair, all he's asking for is a official source.
Well, Redshift is Redshift (read: near-infallible ruling god, official judge) and said that this is the way the card is ruled at YCS and in the OCG.
Doesn't get too much more official than that.
__________________

Your future is cancelled.
Bawb is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:44 PM   #13
Redshift
Pojiwadai Elite 4
 
Redshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 45,733
iTrader: 105 (100%)
Redshift is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeholland View Post
thats not even really relevant.. people rule wrong all the time, and unless youre getting your information from somewhere other than word of mouth thats all it is. i understand youre of greater knowledge and authority than i am but this time "because we say so" isnt going to satisfy me
I know what you're looking for, but you're not going to find it here. I'm just telling you how the card works.
__________________
● Number VI of the YGOrganization
Hunting Numbers: 86

RC-1, RC-2 & PC-1 Certified
3DS Friend Code: 2208 5236 3793
Redshift is online now  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:50 PM   #14
phoenixrawr
Was here all along
 
phoenixrawr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,580
iTrader: 0
phoenixrawr is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeholland View Post
but thats not what it says, and ive read no relevant ruling to state otherwise, and has never been errata'd
That is what it says. Like I said, poorly worded, but it does say it.

You're reading it as (parentheses used to group relevant items):
You can send this card and 1 other Fairy-Type monster from your hand to the Graveyard to negate the activation of an effect (of an Effect Monster your opponent controls), and destroy it.

The way it's MEANT to be read is:
You can send this card and 1 other Fairy-Type monster from your hand to the Graveyard to negate the activation of an effect (of an Effect Monster) your opponent controls, and destroy it.

Abuse of prepositional phrases without proper grouping has lead to the confusion over this text, but that's what it is trying to tell you.
phoenixrawr is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:50 PM   #15
mikeholland
Pojo Veteran
 
mikeholland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 3,458
iTrader: 0
mikeholland is on a distinguished road
Default

that is soooooo not legit... hahaha wtf? how can a card be running around working in a manner that is just outright not what the card text says...? thats unacceptable how do you even talk to konami someone needs to put this through since its definitely relevant in the meta, and has probably been ruled both ways since the rise of the fairys
mikeholland is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:52 PM   #16
Asherpotter
The Frank Veteran
 
Asherpotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belle Harbor, NY
Posts: 5,422
iTrader: 91 (100%)
Asherpotter is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeholland View Post
that is soooooo not legit... hahaha wtf? how can a card be running around working in a manner that is just outright not what the card text says...? thats unacceptable how do you even talk to konami someone needs to put this through since its definitely relevant in the meta, and has probably been ruled both ways since the rise of the fairys
It actually hasn't been ruled both ways. I think that if it is reprinted, the text will be corrected.
__________________
Asherpotter is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:52 PM   #17
Redshift
Pojiwadai Elite 4
 
Redshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 45,733
iTrader: 105 (100%)
Redshift is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeholland View Post
that is soooooo not legit... hahaha wtf? how can a card be running around working in a manner that is just outright not what the card text says...? thats unacceptable how do you even talk to konami someone needs to put this through since its definitely relevant in the meta, and has probably been ruled both ways since the rise of the fairys
us-ygorules@konami.com
__________________
● Number VI of the YGOrganization
Hunting Numbers: 86

RC-1, RC-2 & PC-1 Certified
3DS Friend Code: 2208 5236 3793
Redshift is online now  
Old 09-26-2011, 08:02 PM   #18
mikeholland
Pojo Veteran
 
mikeholland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 3,458
iTrader: 0
mikeholland is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixrawr View Post
That is what it says. Like I said, poorly worded, but it does say it.

You're reading it as (parentheses used to group relevant items):
You can send this card and 1 other Fairy-Type monster from your hand to the Graveyard to negate the activation of an effect (of an Effect Monster your opponent controls), and destroy it.

The way it's MEANT to be read is:
You can send this card and 1 other Fairy-Type monster from your hand to the Graveyard to negate the activation of an effect (of an Effect Monster) your opponent controls, and destroy it.

Abuse of prepositional phrases without proper grouping has lead to the confusion over this text, but that's what it is trying to tell you.
hmm i do see what youre saying

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
thanks im going to send them a message hopefully somebody responds

Last edited by mikeholland : 09-26-2011 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
mikeholland is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 08:07 PM   #19
Redshift
Pojiwadai Elite 4
 
Redshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 45,733
iTrader: 105 (100%)
Redshift is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeholland View Post
thanks im going to send them a message hopefully somebody responds
If/when you get a response, be sure to kindly share it in the Konami rulings updates sticky. It certainly would be nice to have official backing to the way it is ruled.
__________________
● Number VI of the YGOrganization
Hunting Numbers: 86

RC-1, RC-2 & PC-1 Certified
3DS Friend Code: 2208 5236 3793
Redshift is online now  
Old 09-26-2011, 08:16 PM   #20
mikeholland
Pojo Veteran
 
mikeholland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 3,458
iTrader: 0
mikeholland is on a distinguished road
Default

ok i have sent a message. the card was created in a simpler time, i find it extremely unlikely that "of an effect monster your opponent controls" was added to the text for no reason.. it could have easily been "negate the activation of an effect of an effect monster and destroy it" since thats how its being played currently. and if they were worried about abusing negating bad effects on your own cards, they could have worded it "negate the activation of an opponents effect monster and destroy it" but thats not how it was worded, and i think its because thats not how it was meant to work.
it just seems extremely unlikely to me and hopefully konami messages back

ok will do thanks
mikeholland is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 08:29 PM   #21
phoenixrawr
Was here all along
 
phoenixrawr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,580
iTrader: 0
phoenixrawr is on a distinguished road
Default

Herald of Orange Light was originally a TCG exclusive which explains a lot on the "why is this card worded so horribly" front. You could equally look at XX-Saber Darksoul and attempt to divine why its rulings are so inconsistent with the rest of the game, but ultimately it's not too hard to see that the TCG doesn't do so well when left on its own to design cards >_>

Last edited by phoenixrawr : 09-26-2011 at 08:31 PM.
phoenixrawr is offline  
Old 09-26-2011, 09:42 PM   #22
ness00
セクサリス
 
ness00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Argentina
Age: 24
Posts: 36,923
iTrader: 0
ness00 is on a distinguished road
Default

Thank you mike, but your princess is in another castle.
__________________
ness00 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

 
Advertisement


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.