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Old 09-01-2011, 05:22 AM   #1
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Default Tokens and XYZ

Im a little confused about the rulings on tokens being used as XYZ materials. In OCG the ruling is that since XYZ materials are NOT on the field and tokens can only be on the field at any given time, they can not be used as XYZ material. However in TCG XYZ material ARE considered on the field. Since tokens are considered on the field in this situation and can remain on the field in the TCG, shouldn't tokens be viable as XYZ material?


References:

"Tokens cannot be used as Xyz Material Monsters, because Tokens can only be on the field and Xyz Materials are not considered to be there." - Yugioh Wikia Token Monsters

"In the TCG, Xyz Materials are treated as being on the field, so effects like "Sangan" and "Reborn Tengu" will activate when they are detached..." Yugioh Wikia Xyz Summon
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:26 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Lynkux View Post
Im a little confused about the rulings on tokens being used as XYZ materials. In OCG the ruling is that since XYZ materials are NOT on the field and tokens can only be on the field at any given time, they can not be used as XYZ material. However in TCG XYZ material ARE considered on the field. Since tokens are considered on the field in this situation and can remain on the field in the TCG, shouldn't tokens be viable as XYZ material?


References:

"Tokens cannot be used as Xyz Material Monsters, because Tokens can only be on the field and Xyz Materials are not considered to be there." - Yugioh Wikia Token Monsters

"In the TCG, Xyz Materials are treated as being on the field, so effects like "Sangan" and "Reborn Tengu" will activate when they are detached..." Yugioh Wikia Xyz Summon
You cannot use tokens as Xyz materials. Why? Because they aren't cards, I suppose, but mainly BKSS.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:29 AM   #3
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You cannot use tokens as Xyz materials. Why? Because they aren't cards, I suppose, but mainly BKSS.
Tokens are treated as cards though for effects like Master Hyperion and Secret Barrel

"Token Monsters can be Tributed (where applicable), and can be the legal targets of effects that return cards to the hand or Main Deck as part of an effect, but not as part of a cost." Yugioh Wikia Token Monster
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:30 AM   #4
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I am amazed how many times this has been asked. Tokens cannot be used because tokens cannot be stacked because anything can represent tokens. This was stated by Kevin below:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Tewart: Weird, fb flipped our comments. The "no" was addressed to Bill's question. You can't use tokens because they're not physical cards you can pile under the Xyz Monster.

But you can use Trap Monsters, for the same reason. Because they are cards you can pile under an Xyz Monster.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Z
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by zman22674 View Post
I am amazed how many times this has been asked. Tokens cannot be used because tokens cannot be stacked because anything can represent tokens. This was stated by Kevin below:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Tewart: Weird, fb flipped our comments. The "no" was addressed to Bill's question. You can't use tokens because they're not physical cards you can pile under the Xyz Monster.

But you can use Trap Monsters, for the same reason. Because they are cards you can pile under an Xyz Monster.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Z
Sorry I'm not trying to be ignorant here, I'm just trying to figure it out. You can get official cards to use as tokens, so in reality tokens can be physically stacked under another card. To further the part about trap monsters, does the trap part of the monster dissappear? is it no longer able to be mst'd or heavy stormed?

Im just trying to get a better grasp of these situation in case they come up further during tournaments.


"Fluff Tokens", "Ojama Tokens", and "Sheep Tokens" have been made into official cards. These cards have a gray background to differentiate them from other Monster Cards and also lack any kind of text, instead being all named the more general "Token" and with the effect text "This card can be used as any token". - Yugioh Wikia Token Monsters


TBH this can all just be resolved by matching up with the OCG rule that they are not on the field. The thing that got me interested in the materials so much is that i lost a tournament because of xyz materials being counted for Secret Barrel. These things just pop into my head so it's good to get them cleared up now.

Last edited by Lynkux : 09-01-2011 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:38 AM   #6
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Tokens are not an official, legal card to stack under an Xyz Monster.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynkux View Post
Sorry I'm not trying to be ignorant here, I'm just trying to figure it out. You can get official cards to use as tokens, so in reality tokens can be physically stacked under another card. To further the part about trap monsters, does the trap part of the monster dissappear? is it no longer able to be mst'd or heavy stormed?

Im just trying to get a better grasp of these situation in case they come up further during tournaments.


"Fluff Tokens", "Ojama Tokens", and "Sheep Tokens" have been made into official cards. These cards have a gray background to differentiate them from other Monster Cards and also lack any kind of text, instead being all named the more general "Token" and with the effect text "This card can be used as any token". - Yugioh Wikia Token Monsters


TBH this can all just be resolved by matching up with the OCG rule that they are not on the field. The thing that got me interested in the materials so much is that i lost a tournament because of xyz materials being counted for Secret Barrel. These things just pop into my head so it's good to get them cleared up now.
You cannot use tokens for an xyz summon. Period. Never ever ever ever. WHo cares why, that is what has been decided. Also because it would be too broke if you could.

As for the trap monsters, no you cannot use mst, as overlain cards cannot be targeted by the likes of mst or even Raigeki Break.

Additional Comment:

The token cards are just for show, you can still use anything you want as a token.
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Last edited by Beatdownmaster : 09-01-2011 at 05:41 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:44 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Lynkux View Post
"Fluff Tokens", "Ojama Tokens", and "Sheep Tokens" have been made into official cards.
No.

They are a novelty item.

There's nothing official about them at all.

There is a machine booth they have in the US that takes a photo and makes that a token card, you couldn't get more 'novelty' than that.

Also learn to not believe whatever you read off Wiki, you'll be smarter that way.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynkux View Post
Sorry I'm not trying to be ignorant here, I'm just trying to figure it out. You can get official cards to use as tokens, so in reality tokens can be physically stacked under another card. To further the part about trap monsters, does the trap part of the monster dissappear? is it no longer able to be mst'd or heavy stormed?

Im just trying to get a better grasp of these situation in case they come up further during tournaments.


"Fluff Tokens", "Ojama Tokens", and "Sheep Tokens" have been made into official cards. These cards have a gray background to differentiate them from other Monster Cards and also lack any kind of text, instead being all named the more general "Token" and with the effect text "This card can be used as any token". - Yugioh Wikia Token Monsters


TBH this can all just be resolved by matching up with the OCG rule that they are not on the field. The thing that got me interested in the materials so much is that i lost a tournament because of xyz materials being counted for Secret Barrel. These things just pop into my head so it's good to get them cleared up now.
As I already said, anything can be a token, not necessarily a card and because of that, not everything can be stacked. I have said it and others have said it and Kevin Tewart has official said tokens cannot be used. There is no such thing as an "official token". Heck, I was making token cards well before they came out with the ones that are gray. I had Sheep Tokens that I made and I had to make some for friends because they loved it. They looked like Normal Monster cards and had the sheep on them, etc. I still make tokens occasionally, like my Emissary of Darkness tokens I made recently to use with my Gorz cards.

Now, as for Trap Monsters, I actually asked that question on that same thread and the answer was once a Trap Monster is overlaid, it is no longer in the spell/trap zone so it cannot be affected by cards or effects that affect spells or traps.

Z

Last edited by zman22674 : 09-01-2011 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:55 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nicker Ridders View Post
No.

They are a novelty item.

There's nothing official about them at all.

There is a machine booth they have in the US that takes a photo and makes that a token card, you couldn't get more 'novelty' than that.

Also learn to not believe whatever you read off Wiki, you'll be smarter that way.

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...icialtoken.jpg

If there were not official token cards why would the Rule Book given with every starter deck specifically say "You can use OFFICIAL token cards or use coins, card sleeves..." - official rule book

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zman22674 View Post
As I already said, anything can be a token, not necessarily a card and because of that, not everything can be stacked. I have said it and others have said it and Kevin Tewart has official said tokens cannot be used.

Now, as for Trap Monsters, I actually asked that question on that same thread and the answer was once a Trap Monster is overlaid, it is no longer in the spell/trap zone so it cannot be affected by cards or effects that affect spells or traps.

Z
I want to make it clear now that i understand that token monsters can not be used. And i wont be using token monsters for XYZ. I get it, now it's just symantics of the 'explanation' as to why they can not. I get they they can't because they cant, but the OCG ruling says they can't because they are not on the field when they get stacked and once tokens leave the field they are not there. This doesn't fit the TCG.

Last edited by Lynkux : 09-01-2011 at 05:55 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:58 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lynkux View Post
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/v...icialtoken.jpg

If there were not official token cards why would the Rule Book given with every starter deck specifically say "You can use OFFICIAL token cards or use coins, card sleeves..." - official rule book
Because the rule book is the most basic of basics and once you start learning things, you'll come to understand how behind it is when dealing with more current rulings. Plus if they didn't convey the tokens were usable, you'd get hundreds of players questioning their use, throwing official in there means less hassle.

Case in point, you can't use tokens for an Xyz monster, doesn't matter what the rule book says. Rulings and mechanics trump whatever the rule book says if they're different.

Use it as a helpful guide, not a bible.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:23 AM   #12
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You have to be able to detach Xyz materials and send them to the grave for effects. Tokens can't do that.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:45 AM   #13
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Whether you can find logic for the reason, the official ruling is there, so there's nothing to debate.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:52 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Primesghost View Post
You have to be able to detach Xyz materials and send them to the grave for effects. Tokens can't do that.
Most, if not all, Xyz monsters do not specify where the detached materials go in order to get the Xyz monster's effect. They only care that they are detached. So that probably is not the reason tokens cannot be used. Now, as for the effects of the materials themselves, if it specifies it must go to the Graveyard for its effect to activate, like Sangan, then it must go to the Graveyard to activate the effect.

If you detach Sangan from Utopia while Macro Cosmos is on the field to use Utopia's effect, Utopia's effect will activate and negate an attack because it does not say "You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to the Graveyard to negate the attack.", it only says "You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card negate the attack." However, Sangan's effect will not activate because it was banished and its effect only activates if it is sent from the field to the Graveyard because it does specify where it must go.

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Old 09-01-2011, 12:54 PM   #15
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Whether you can find logic for the reason, the official ruling is there, so there's nothing to debate.
Exactly.

You cannot use tokens by definition. That's absolute. If you wish to enquire that definition, ask Konami.
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