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Old 08-03-2011, 02:00 AM   #1
Fox, The End
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Default Fiendish Chain VS Worm King?

So. I went to a locals today and Fiendish Chain'd a guy's Worm King after he called prio to tribute his Cataros to target/destroy my Scrap Dragon.

At Nationals and at my own locals, it was ruled that Doomcaliber Knight, Stardust Dragon, and Thunder King Rai-Oh couldn't tribute themselves if their effects were already being negated.

My friend (who was ruled against) sided with me, that chain would stop him.
The store owner's employee sided with the other guy.

Since I was new at he card shop, I was getting strange "what a cheater" looks from across the room and from beside me. I let the employee take the ruling and proceeded to get my ass whooped until I ripped a Dark Hole. Hah.

Can anyone tell me what's up?
My head hurts >.>
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:18 AM   #2
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They were simply wrong.
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:20 AM   #3
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it's a chain

Worm King is Link 1 (and had tributed as a cost)
Fiendish Chain is Link 2

Chain resolves backwards, so Fiendish will negate Worm King's effect.
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:39 AM   #4
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I'm confused.
Is the argument over:

1) Whether or not Worm King's first activation (tributing Cartaros to destroy a target) is negated, or:

2) Whether or not a subsequent Worm King activation (tributing itself to destroy a target) is negated?

Because it's obviously negated in scenario 1, and not-as-obviously not negated in scenario 2.

Edit: And this:
At Nationals and at my own locals, it was ruled that Doomcaliber Knight, Stardust Dragon, and Thunder King Rai-Oh couldn't tribute themselves if their effects were already being negated.

is wrong. They can all (and Doomcal must) tribute themselves while their effects are negated.
If under the effect of Skill Drain or Fiendish Chain, their effects are not negated because those cards can only negate monsters that are face-up on the field.
If under the effect of Effect Veiler or Forbidden Chalice, their effects are negated, because those will negate all effects that activate on the field (until the end phase), regardless of where they are at resolution.

Re-edit: Unless there was a ruling made at this year's nationals that I'm unaware of...

Last edited by NotEnoughGolds : 08-03-2011 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotEnoughGolds View Post
I'm confused.
Is the argument over:

1) Whether or not Worm King's first activation (tributing Cartaros to destroy a target) is negated, or:

2) Whether or not a subsequent Worm King activation (tributing itself to destroy a target) is negated?

Because it's obviously negated in scenario 1, and not-as-obviously not negated in scenario 2.

Edit: And this:
At Nationals and at my own locals, it was ruled that Doomcaliber Knight, Stardust Dragon, and Thunder King Rai-Oh couldn't tribute themselves if their effects were already being negated.

is wrong. They can all (and Doomcal must) tribute themselves while their effects are negated.
If under the effect of Skill Drain or Fiendish Chain, their effects are not negated because those cards can only negate monsters that are face-up on the field.
If under the effect of Effect Veiler or Forbidden Chalice, their effects are negated, because those will negate all effects that activate on the field (until the end phase), regardless of where they are at resolution.

Re-edit: Unless there was a ruling made at this year's nationals that I'm unaware of...
Yeah, it was over #2.
At Nats it was ruled that the effect activates on field even though the resolution is in the grave, so even though the monster has been tributed, its effect would still be negated.

I wasn't at Nats personally, but my friends were and that's how it was ruled on them.


So right now I have...

2-Yes, Fiendish Chain would negate
1-No, Fiendish Chain wouldn't negate
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:45 AM   #6
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For your situation specifically...

Cl1: Worm King *tributing catoros*
CL2: Chain

Resolving backwards
Chain hooks onto king
King looses sight due to chain and just chunk catoros on the floor, thus having his effect negated.

Now had king thrown himself, then chain would fizzle cause king would no longer be on the field, thus no longer under the influence.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox, The End View Post
Yeah, it was over #2.
At Nats it was ruled that the effect activates on field even though the resolution is in the grave, so even though the monster has been tributed, its effect would still be negated.
I doubt that. People always hear things were ruled a certain way at big events, when it may have just been a misinterpretation.

Effects always resolve where they activate. "Stardust Dragon"'s effect activates and resolves on the field. "Fiendish Chain" continuously targets, so once the monster leaves the field it can't target it and it won't negate its effects.
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureKiryu View Post
For your situation specifically...

Cl1: Worm King *tributing catoros*
CL2: Chain

Resolving backwards
Chain hooks onto king
King looses sight due to chain and just chunk catoros on the floor, thus having his effect negated.

Now had king thrown himself, then chain would fizzle cause king would no longer be on the field, thus no longer under the influence.
Err. I should have made it more clear.

I negated his effect to destroy dragon by tributing Cata, that was fine.
After he had been chained, he activated his effect to tribute himself. That's what I want to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
I doubt that. People always hear things were ruled a certain way at big events, when it may have just been a misinterpretation.

Effects always resolve where they activate. "Stardust Dragon"'s effect activates and resolves on the field. "Fiendish Chain" continuously targets, so once the monster leaves the field it can't target it and it won't negate its effects.
Well it was actually ruled against my friend. He didn't just up and hear it from somewhere.

Anyway, I guess the other guy really was right then. Still kinda pisses me off though, that ruling is so full of crap.
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