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Old 03-24-2011, 08:09 PM   #1
The Black Lotus
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Default Enishi, Shien's Chancellor

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This card has been in both of the last two YCS winning Samurai decks. Is this card really that good to run? I am starting to think it is. What are your opinions?

Note to everyone who uses the Red/Blue Combo; that deck has not won yet. It did get top 32, but it seems to be inconsistent and crappy.

Discuss.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:13 PM   #2
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Nizar ran it in YCS Dallas, because it was an interesting tech card, and can come in handy,

Sean and Nizar are teammates, and they both ran carbon copies of each others decks, so both have Enishi in it, because Nizar used him at Dallas. No other reason.

He can be good, but he isnt needed. You can run him or not, its completely up to you.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:20 PM   #3
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LSS Enishi > This
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:24 PM   #4
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I think its really good. Can be used for that extra push for game, another out to stuff like reaper and the likes. You can summon him use his effect then summon kagemusha for an 8 star synchro. Plus dumping two samurais in your graveyard is a laughable cost now. He also gives the deck some comeback factor if they manage to get over your initial swarm.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:04 PM   #5
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...I wouldn't run him. The standard LSS guys are enough.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by thebestever View Post
I think its really good. Can be used for that extra push for game, another out to stuff like reaper and the likes. You can summon him use his effect then summon kagemusha for an 8 star synchro. Plus dumping two samurais in your graveyard is a laughable cost now. He also gives the deck some comeback factor if they manage to get over your initial swarm.
Situations like these are what make me think about running him. One of the biggest problems with Samurai is that it doesn't have many outs to big fat monsters and an Enishi can rid you of something that would normally have you waiting for your Hand.

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Originally Posted by ArchAvalon View Post
Nizar ran it in YCS Dallas, because it was an interesting tech card, and can come in handy,

Sean and Nizar are teammates, and they both ran carbon copies of each others decks, so both have Enishi in it, because Nizar used him at Dallas. No other reason.

He can be good, but he isnt needed. You can run him or not, its completely up to you.
They were the two that won the last two YCSes though and they did run Enishi. Everything else seemed to be really standard for the deck. It is an interesting tech, but it seems to make a difference.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:35 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Twisted Keyblade View Post
LSS Enishi > This
Depends on the usage, really, since both cards are actually quite different.

Legendary Six Samurai - Enishi
Pros
- has no summon restrictions (can be Normal Summoned, Set, or SS)
- can be searched for by RotA
- works with all of the standard Six Samurai support (SSU, LSS - Kageki, LSS - Kizan, Gateway, DEST)
- bounce effect can be activated during either player's turn
- can still attack during your turn if you use his bounce effect
Cons
- the 500 ATK/DEF boost only happens when 2 other Six Samurai monsters are with him, otherwise he's only a 1700 beater.
- has a steep cost to activate its bounce effect (RFG 2 Six Sams EVERY TIME his bounce effect is used)
- also needs another Six Samurai next to him to activate his bounce effect
- the bounced monsters can still come back next turn if bounced to the hand

Enishi, Shien's Chancellor
Pros
- Removing 2 Six Samurais is a one-time requirement to Special Summon him.
- His ATK/DEF is already at where younger Enishi tries to be at, a solid 2200.
- His effect DESTROYS the face-up monster, not bounce
- is a Lv.6, which can allow for a rare Lv.8 Synchro when used with Kagemusha (seriously, Six Sams can't make Lv.8s too well outside of this)
Cons
- is a Nomi monster that can't even be revived from the Graveyard
- can't be searched for by any means
- only real support that he works with is Gateway
- still can't attack during the turn his kill effect activates
- Kill effect can only be used during your turn


As you can see, Enishi acts more like a Chaos Sorcerer for Six Sams while younger Enishi is a reusable (though expensive to use) CED with a body. LSS - Enishi is something you'd use in its own deck since you'd run out of Six Sam monsters to RFG really quick using his effect. Chancellor Enishi is easier to splash into any Six Sam deck because you only have to RFG stuff once to get a 2200 beater with a reusable kill effect.

Hope this helped to highlight both versions' uses and differences.

Last edited by Pablo Cruise : 03-25-2011 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:47 PM   #8
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Very useful post and it makes it clear that the Chancellor's utility puts him far above LSS Enishi in a competitive setting.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:50 PM   #9
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One mistake though is that Enishi, Shien's Chancellor can not be special summoned by any means from the graveyard because his text says "except" instead of "only."
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:38 PM   #10
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IMO, he is trash. He disrupts DEST plays. My friend plays weird ass techs and among them, Great Shogun Shien is far more dangerous than this thing.

If you talk about Red and Blue builds, he disrupts those, too, while on the other hand Great Shogun synergizes well. Great Shogun can be dead, but hey, so can XX-Saber Faultroll, and if Enishi is live, his effect is underwhelming, because it's a destruction effect AND has a face-up requirement. Great Shogun is live more often than Enishi anyways early game, and is more useful late game for his size. Not to mention Enishi can't attack.

He also opens up unnecessary weakness to rogue Macro or sided Banishers.

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Old 03-25-2011, 03:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebestever View Post
One mistake though is that Enishi, Shien's Chancellor can not be special summoned by any means from the graveyard because his text says "except" instead of "only."
Crap, I forgot that minor text difference. Looks like I've got this memorized from now on. :P

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IMO, he is trash. He disrupts DEST plays. My friend plays weird ass techs and among them, Great Shogun Shien is far more dangerous than this thing.

If you talk about Red and Blue builds, he disrupts those, too, while on the other hand Great Shogun synergizes well. Great Shogun can be dead, but hey, so can XX-Saber Faultroll, and if Enishi is live, his effect is underwhelming, because it's a destruction effect AND has a face-up requirement. Great Shogun is live more often than Enishi anyways early game, and is more useful late game for his size. Not to mention Enishi can't attack.

He also opens up unnecessary weakness to rogue Macro or sided Banishers.
From my experience using both Enishi and Great Shogun, Enishi serves a better purpose getting yourself out of a tight spot versus the Shogun just because Enishi can Special itself at the cost of taking away DEST targets and pop something afterwards. Shogun, for me, is a win more card for damn sure since you can put yourself in a better spot to OTK after dropping his extra 2500ATK body with 2 other Six Sams on your field. As for his S/T limitation effect, I've found it to be more useful if you drop him within the first 2-3 turns of a game. Anytime after that, the usual progression of gameplay makes it so the most resources a player can use comfortably per turn to avoid going into topdeck mode before the opponent would be one card anyway, making his effect rather moot. Other than that, he can't really do much aside from making Lv.8s with Shien's Squire. And what commonly played build runs the Squire outside of casual play? At least Enishi can make Lv8s with Kagemusha, a task that Six Sams don't really ever do because they can't really ever make Lv8s consistently.

But hey, your mileage can and will vary.
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:39 AM   #12
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The only issue with Chancellor is that he's not searchable. So you won't be able to find him when you really need him unless you drew him really early which means that is 1 less card you drew to help you swarm.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:40 AM   #13
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The most hilarious thing stated was that you now think that Enishi is good to run just because it was in the last two YCS winning decks.

How about you read the card?

A 2200 beatstick that can kill a face-up.

It's a bad card, don't run it.

...and yes, that is sarcasm.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:02 AM   #14
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He is good mid-end game state. Easily summonable. Gets over 2100 and less.

Drawing him late game is better than early game.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:55 AM   #15
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If you run him you should probably be running two to three DEST anyway. Getting out a first turn Shi En and then making another one next turn with DEST is amazing then dropping Enishi on top of that is basically game. Six Samuari do not really need their monsters in the graveyard anyway. The only two you would want to keep in the grave is Kageki and Kagemusha.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:17 PM   #16
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Enishi is way better than that LSS guy.
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:05 PM   #17
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Enishi, Shien's Chancellor - because Chaos Sorcerer isn't part of the LSS theme.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:00 PM   #18
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Enishi, Shien's Chancellor - because Chaos Sorcerer isn't part of the LSS theme.
I see nothing wrong with making a Samurai deck based around "the Samurai theme" of removal and Return OTK.

Like... with Irou, Zanji, Legendary Enishi, Ryko and Reaper along with Chaos Sorcerer.

Not every Samurai deck has to be built around the Swarm theme.

Oh, right. That type of thing isn't "top tier". -_-
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:28 PM   #19
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From my experience using both Enishi and Great Shogun, Enishi serves a better purpose getting yourself out of a tight spot versus the Shogun just because Enishi can Special itself at the cost of taking away DEST targets and pop something afterwards. Shogun, for me, is a win more card for damn sure since you can put yourself in a better spot to OTK after dropping his extra 2500ATK body with 2 other Six Sams on your field. As for his S/T limitation effect, I've found it to be more useful if you drop him within the first 2-3 turns of a game. Anytime after that, the usual progression of gameplay makes it so the most resources a player can use comfortably per turn to avoid going into topdeck mode before the opponent would be one card anyway, making his effect rather moot. Other than that, he can't really do much aside from making Lv.8s with Shien's Squire. And what commonly played build runs the Squire outside of casual play? At least Enishi can make Lv8s with Kagemusha, a task that Six Sams don't really ever do because they can't really ever make Lv8s consistently.

But hey, your mileage can and will vary.
What you said isn't wrong, but I play X-Sabers, so the conditions aren't as applicable for my personal situation.

Either card is dead vs. me if I have field control mid-late game. Dropping Shien limits my comeback plays and works on my turn. Shien isn't "win more" if the opponent is trying to come back against my advantage, because Enishi is too slow and small. Shogun stops multiple card plays like Gottoms Emergency Call + counter-traps and forces me to synchro for outs because Faultroll and every level 6 not named Gaia Knight are too small.

Both cards are kinda mediocre, which is why they are techs, but if you drop Enishi going first it's like, so what? If you drop Great Shogun Shien next to your Legendary Shi En and Grandmaster/Kizan swarm, it's ridiculously difficult to get over because we all know how stupid Shi En alone is. Throw in another 2500 road block with a one S/T restriction and all those Solemn Warnings and other traps you drew are not only useless because he went first and now has a huge swarm, but even if you wait an entire turn for them to become live you can only successfully play one anyways. Sabers literally cannot get past it unless they draw a limited card (Dark Hole, etc) plus something that forces negation (Book of Moon, Enemy Controller, etc) or the new tech Effect Veilers. And even then, what's to say the LSS player doesn't have Solemn Warning or Magatama set? Sure, that could be considered a nut hand, but Great Shogun helps piece together and add/contribute to the nut draws and godhands, while Enishi doesn't. LSS has always been a deck that strives to win on turn one.

It's really difficult for them to come back late game even on triple Gateway, which is why I feel Enishi is a poor choice and DEST is so important to conserve. You should be strengthening your early game stranglehold rather than improving your already terrible late game, especially when you're the only deck that can plop 10+ cards on the field and hand with triple United. So many other decks play the late game better than LSS.

I tried to imagine a scenario vs something else like Plants, but when I realized Stardust is so commonly synchroed immediately, Enishi seems even worse. At the very least, Great Shogun Shien can suicide.

These are just my thoughts, so if I'm approaching the subject the wrong way just let me know.
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:56 PM   #20
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I like Enishi better than LSS Enishi, because although you don't get any kind of counter off of him, the special summon off of Enishi makes work better. I've play tested both, and the only time I'd rather draw LSS Enishi over Original Enishi is if Stardust is on the field. LSS Enishi just seems like a waste of my normal summon part of the time.
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:04 PM   #21
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It will depend on these future builds.

Genex Ally Birdman adds speed and helps with Synchros.

Then one could argue to stick with the revival support.
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