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Old 03-16-2011, 11:24 AM   #1
finalstain
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Default Bottomless + Torrential vs Shi En. Also Barkion

Lets say my opponent summons Legendary Six Samurai Shi En. I have Bottomless Trap Hole and Torrential Tribute set. If I activate Bottomless first, what happens next? Do I have to call priority to chain Torrential, and then he gets to choose which effect to negate, or does he/she have to choose to negate right away and THEN I can chain Torrential?

Also Naturia Barkion... same question and I have Bottomless and Torrential. He summons, I activate Bottomless. Is there any point where I can Torrential to blow him up, or will he actually be able to negate BOTH in one chain?

Can Shi En or Barkion negate a Solemn Warning? I assume not since its spell speed 3?
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:25 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalstain View Post
Lets say my opponent summons Legendary Six Samurai Shi En. I have Bottomless Trap Hole and Torrential Tribute set. If I activate Bottomless first, what happens next? Do I have to call priority to chain Torrential, and then he gets to choose which effect to negate, or does he/she have to choose to negate right away and THEN I can chain Torrential?

Also Naturia Barkion... same question and I have Bottomless and Torrential. He summons, I activate Bottomless. Is there any point where I can Torrential to blow him up, or will he actually be able to negate BOTH in one chain?

Can Shi En or Barkion negate a Solemn Warning? I assume not since its spell speed 3?
\

I believe Torrential will miss its timing i could be wrong though

shi en and barion can not do anything to counter traps seeing as they arent summoned and they are never on the field
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:32 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalstain View Post
Lets say my opponent summons Legendary Six Samurai Shi En. I have Bottomless Trap Hole and Torrential Tribute set. If I activate Bottomless first, what happens next? Do I have to call priority to chain Torrential, and then he gets to choose which effect to negate, or does he/she have to choose to negate right away and THEN I can chain Torrential?

Also Naturia Barkion... same question and I have Bottomless and Torrential. He summons, I activate Bottomless. Is there any point where I can Torrential to blow him up, or will he actually be able to negate BOTH in one chain?

Can Shi En or Barkion negate a Solemn Warning? I assume not since its spell speed 3?
First of all, i suggest to read the rulebok and the sticky, since your questions show lack of understanding in some of these key areas.

1.- I won't expand on it but you cannot use priority on this situation, nor "call priority" at all (in any situation). Once a player activates a card effect priority passes to the opponent, this is the single most important rule on chaining and priority.

Also, effects that negate activations can only negate the highest link on the chain.

2.- Barkion has no activation restrictions unlike Shien, he can negate both of your traps.

3.- Correct, they cannot.

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyranniTom View Post
\

I believe Torrential will miss its timing i could be wrong though
Indeed you are, timing for TT and BTH has nothing to do with the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyranniTom View Post
\shi en and barion can not do anything to counter traps seeing as they arent summoned and they are never on the field
That would be the case if Warning where to be a Spell Speed 2, and IF Warning was trying to negate the summon of Shien/Barkion (something the OP never stated nor implied).
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Last edited by perzeus : 03-16-2011 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulebook
If there is a discrepancy between the basic rules and a card’s
effect, the card effect takes precedence. For example, a monster
can only attack once per turn, but with a card effect, it is possible
to attack twice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSS-Shi En
1 Warrior-Type Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner "Six Samurai" monsters
Once per turn, when your opponent activates a Spell/Trap Card, you can negate it's activation and destroy it. If this face-up card on the field would be destroyed, you can destroy another face-up "Six Samurai" monster you control instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulebook
Every type of card effect has a Spell Speed between 1 and 3. If you
want to respond to a card effect in a chain, you have to use an effect
with Spell Speed 2 or higher.
now by following the 3rd quotation, we are ignoring the 1st one...tsk tsk
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyawehHoshikawa View Post
now by following the 3rd quotation, we are ignoring the 1st one...tsk tsk
We are not. There is no indication that Shi En should be able to Chain to Spell Speed 3 effects. If Shi En read "Once per turn, when your opponent activates a Counter Trap Card, you may negate the activation and destroy that card", then it would be able to Chain to Counter Traps in violation of the 3rd quotation.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:46 PM   #6
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We are never to make logical leaps. There is a discrepancy with a card effect and the game's basic rules only if the card effect directly and specifically states something that goes against that rule. Just because Shi En says it negates it doesn't mean it can chain to a spell speed 3 effect because its text doesn't say anything like that. Just because Rai-Oh can negate summons it doesn't mean it can do so in the middle of resolving an effect because its text says nothing like that. That is something an inexperienced player would assume on its own for no real reason just by making a logical leap to bridge his lack of knowledge. If we say that we are simply twisting the card text to fit our needs, but there is no room for such philosophizing when trying to interpret rules.
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