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Old 01-05-2011, 03:01 PM   #1
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Default Skill Drain, the Harpie Cards, and the official Card Ruling on the Harpies

Let's say you run Harpie #1, #2, and #3. Someone uses Skill Drain. Are their names still treated as Harpie Lady since the rules of the game say they're each a Harpie Lady or are they their individual names? I think somebody needs to change the ruling on the Harpie Cards.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:04 PM   #2
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The "effect" which treats the Harpie Lady cards as "Harpie Lady" actually isn't an effect.

It cannot be negated or removed in any way.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:07 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Tri Fox View Post
The "effect" which treats the Harpie Lady cards as "Harpie Lady" actually isn't an effect.

It cannot be negated or removed in any way.
Yet they're considered effect monsters and those are listed as the cards' effects. That's also like Cyber Harpie Lady. Her only effect is she's treated as Harpie Lady so yes, that is an effect.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:26 PM   #4
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It's not an effect, it's a condition. I think.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:41 PM   #5
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i think this was just gone over in a nother thread about QD and if you use explorer to grab it that it still needs to be used for a synchron monster bc that is not an effect but a condition so here I would say its the same thing
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:45 PM   #6
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this isn't an effect. it just says that the card is named as "Harpy Lady", just like what happens with A Legendary Ocean being treated as Umi.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:48 PM   #7
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Keep in mind, this ruling does not follow to Harpie Queen, who's name change IS an effect. But the # harpies, as well as cyber harpie, will eep the "Harpie Lady" name.

It is also worth mentioning that they also retain their old names as well, so say you are playing the harpie mirror, and decide for whatever reason to have Prohibition in your side. You are running Cyber Harpie while they have Harpie Lady #1, you can call Harpie Lady #1, which still shuts them out of their harpies, while not locking yours.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:08 PM   #8
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Even if it is an effect, their effect applies in hand, in graveyard, removed from game, etc.
So until you'd get one on the field, you'd still have more than 3 Harpies.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiranai View Post
this isn't an effect. it just says that the card is named as "Harpy Lady", just like what happens with A Legendary Ocean being treated as Umi.
Then why is Cyber Harpie considered an effect monster? You're saying her effect is blank. Until you can show me Cyber Harpie Lady has another effect somewhere on the card, the "treat as Harpie Lady" is the effect.

Cyber Harpie Lady

Winged Beast/Effect
This card's name is treated as "Harpie Lady".

That's the only effect on the card.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTrunksSSJ1 View Post
Then why is Cyber Harpie considered an effect monster? You're saying her effect is blank. Until you can show me Cyber Harpie Lady has another effect somewhere on the card, the "treat as Harpie Lady" is the effect.

Cyber Harpie Lady

Winged Beast/Effect
This card's name is treated as "Harpie Lady".

That's the only effect on the card.
What other way would there be to designate it? I guess it could have been a Normal monster with the name information in its flavor text, but that deosn't make as much sense (IMO) as making it an effect monster. Regardless, Konami chose to make it an effect monster whose effect is a condition which was explained with the "A Legendary Ocean" example. It's not an "effect" (so to speak) because it's ruled as a condition; that's just how it is.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starting_line32 View Post
What other way would there be to designate it? I guess it could have been a Normal monster with the name information in its flavor text, but that deosn't make as much sense (IMO) as making it an effect monster. Regardless, Konami chose to make it an effect monster whose effect is a condition which was explained with the "A Legendary Ocean" example. It's not an "effect" (so to speak) because it's ruled as a condition; that's just how it is.
Doesn't change the fact that it's still the effect unless there's some sort of invisible effect on the card.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTrunksSSJ1 View Post
Then why is Cyber Harpie considered an effect monster? You're saying her effect is blank. Until you can show me Cyber Harpie Lady has another effect somewhere on the card, the "treat as Harpie Lady" is the effect.

Cyber Harpie Lady

Winged Beast/Effect
This card's name is treated as "Harpie Lady".

That's the only effect on the card.
Because Konami says so. Deal with it.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTrunksSSJ1 View Post
Then why is Cyber Harpie considered an effect monster? You're saying her effect is blank. Until you can show me Cyber Harpie Lady has another effect somewhere on the card, the "treat as Harpie Lady" is the effect.

Cyber Harpie Lady

Winged Beast/Effect
This card's name is treated as "Harpie Lady".

That's the only effect on the card.
Her text is a condition placed upon the card, which is why it is considered an effect monster. Many Monsters have conditions placed upon them that cannot be negated (i.e. Quickdraw).
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:55 AM   #14
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You've had it explained to you more than once. The end result is that it isn't a traditional effect, it isn't negated by Skill Drain because it's a condition, and that's how the ruling will play out in games. You can split hairs on the way Konami chose to design conditional effects, but that doesn't change their mechanics.

Last edited by starting_line32 : 01-06-2011 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTrunksSSJ1 View Post
Doesn't change the fact that it's still the effect unless there's some sort of invisible effect on the card.
urrrrggggh.

I'll try to explain it a little better. The effect of cyber harpy lady and similar cards is to place a condition on the cards so that their name is treated as harpy lady. Conditions, once set, cannot be negated and remain in effect until they no longer apply. In this case, the card effect sets the condition at the very beginning of the duel, and as the card's effect is in place regardless of it's location the condition doesn't have a point at which it ends, therefore it stays until the rules no longer apply; the end of the duel.

The short of it is, the card's name is 'Harpy lady' There's no 'cyber' in there anyway. You can't even declare cyber harpy lady with Prohibition ffs. The card(s) are all harpy lady. Even if removed from play face down.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrikeCommander000 View Post
Her text is a condition placed upon the card, which is why it is considered an effect monster. Many Monsters have conditions placed upon them that cannot be negated (i.e. Quickdraw).
You don't get it. It's still treated as the effect. Otherwise it's a blank effect monster. Just like Legendary Ocean with Umi, it's still part of the effect.

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormweaver View Post
urrrrggggh.

I'll try to explain it a little better. The effect of cyber harpy lady and similar cards is to place a condition on the cards so that their name is treated as harpy lady. Conditions, once set, cannot be negated and remain in effect until they no longer apply. In this case, the card effect sets the condition at the very beginning of the duel, and as the card's effect is in place regardless of it's location the condition doesn't have a point at which it ends, therefore it stays until the rules no longer apply; the end of the duel.

The short of it is, the card's name is 'Harpy lady' There's no 'cyber' in there anyway. You can't even declare cyber harpy lady with Prohibition ffs. The card(s) are all harpy lady. Even if removed from play face down.
Cyber Harpie Lady is the card name. It is the name displayed as the card name.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTrunksSSJ1 View Post
You don't get it. It's still treated as the effect. Otherwise it's a blank effect monster. Just like Legendary Ocean with Umi, it's still part of the effect.
You don't get it. You're wrong.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubbz View Post
You don't get it. You're wrong.
Sorry but no. It's listed as the effect.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTrunksSSJ1 View Post
Sorry but no. It's listed as the effect.
But it won't get negated by Skill Drain. So you're still wrong.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTrunksSSJ1 View Post
Cyber Harpie Lady is the card name. It is the name displayed as the card name.
From the moment the first cards are drawn, it's name is no longer Cyber Harpie Lady. From the very first moment, the card's effect sets the condition on the card, changing it's name. Until we get a card that can negate conditions, that's all there is to it.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:23 AM   #21
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It is not an effect that can be negated or circumvented. As stated above, it is more of a game mechanic condition. These are designated in the OCG as unclassified effects I believe. Regardless, in the TCG, they are considered conditions (not really effects). Other examples are summoning conditions such as Cyber Dragon, limitations/conditions placed on the game such as Scapegoats, etc..
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:26 AM   #22
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It's not an effect per se, but it is classified as an effect monster. It's not an effect that can be negated.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmastermuka View Post
It is also worth mentioning that they also retain their old names as well, so say you are playing the harpie mirror, and decide for whatever reason to have Prohibition in your side. You are running Cyber Harpie while they have Harpie Lady #1, you can call Harpie Lady #1, which still shuts them out of their harpies, while not locking yours.
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"Cyber Harpie Lady" cannot be declared with "Prohibition", because its name is treated as "Harpie Lady". "A Legendary Ocean" cannot be declared with "Prohibition", because its name is treated as "Umi".
Because of this ruling I'd say no to that
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:02 AM   #24
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Yeah, this has been beaten off to death worse than Dark Magician Girl & her jokes.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:15 AM   #25
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K...

Will Skill Drain negate the name modification? No.

If you think this should change, e-mail Konami about it.

Closed.
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