Go Back   Pojo.com Forums > Yu-Gi-Oh! > Yu-Gi-Oh TCG Q & A
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-19-2010, 12:42 PM   #1
Arcninja
Pojo Veteren
 
Arcninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 3,389
iTrader: 0
Arcninja is on a distinguished road
Default Effect Veiler vs Lonefire Blossom

Can Effect Veiler negate the effect of Lonefire Blossom when it tributes itself?
__________________
Adrian Sean Shakir
Invite to Worlds 2012
YCS Seattle 2012 3rd Place
NA WCQ 2012 5th Place
YCS Dallas 2012 Top 16
YCS Miami 2013 Top 16
YCS Atlanta 2014 Top 16
ARG Nationals 20K 2014 Top 16
YCS Long Beach 2012 Top 64
NA WCQ 2010 Top 64
8 Regional Top 8's
Arcninja is offline  
Old 12-19-2010, 12:53 PM   #2
Thebanlistsuxx
Registered User
 
Thebanlistsuxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,876
iTrader: 0
Thebanlistsuxx is on a distinguished road
Default

if it tributes itself you cannot chain effect veiler to lonefire and say you want to negate it as lonefire is not on the field anymore and therefor cannot be targeted by veiler.

---
if you use veiler before the opponent activates lonefires effect, then it will negate lonefires effect, but the opp will not be stupid enough to activate it in that case.

Last edited by Thebanlistsuxx : 12-19-2010 at 12:57 PM.
Thebanlistsuxx is offline  
Old 12-19-2010, 01:00 PM   #3
Arcninja
Pojo Veteren
 
Arcninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 3,389
iTrader: 0
Arcninja is on a distinguished road
Default

You mean if they call priority.
__________________
Adrian Sean Shakir
Invite to Worlds 2012
YCS Seattle 2012 3rd Place
NA WCQ 2012 5th Place
YCS Dallas 2012 Top 16
YCS Miami 2013 Top 16
YCS Atlanta 2014 Top 16
ARG Nationals 20K 2014 Top 16
YCS Long Beach 2012 Top 64
NA WCQ 2010 Top 64
8 Regional Top 8's
Arcninja is offline  
Old 12-19-2010, 01:03 PM   #4
StarScream
Metal Fur
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: currently movin
Posts: 2,188
iTrader: 0
StarScream is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcninja View Post
You mean if they call priority.
You don't call priority. Either you have it or don't.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoBFCanti about Chaos Hunter View Post
Oh and 2500 atk says "Hold the **** up Stardust, check out my thighs and *******. You haven't seen these in the TCG before have you?"
StarScream is offline  
Old 12-19-2010, 01:04 PM   #5
Thebanlistsuxx
Registered User
 
Thebanlistsuxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,876
iTrader: 0
Thebanlistsuxx is on a distinguished road
Default

the above is when they use prio
---
the below is when they do not use prio
Thebanlistsuxx is offline  
Old 12-19-2010, 01:05 PM   #6
Arcninja
Pojo Veteren
 
Arcninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 3,389
iTrader: 0
Arcninja is on a distinguished road
Default

What? I meant with Lonefire Blossom.
__________________
Adrian Sean Shakir
Invite to Worlds 2012
YCS Seattle 2012 3rd Place
NA WCQ 2012 5th Place
YCS Dallas 2012 Top 16
YCS Miami 2013 Top 16
YCS Atlanta 2014 Top 16
ARG Nationals 20K 2014 Top 16
YCS Long Beach 2012 Top 64
NA WCQ 2010 Top 64
8 Regional Top 8's
Arcninja is offline  
Old 12-19-2010, 01:05 PM   #7
SkullBuster
Flaming Anime Artist
 
SkullBuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Performing 775-hit juggle combos in the Endless Frontier..
Posts: 19,540
iTrader: 1 (100%)
SkullBuster is on a distinguished road
Default

Bottom line, if Lonefire has already activated its effect AND TRIBUTES ITSELF, Effect Veiler cannot be activated to negate it.
__________________
"The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."
I stopped counting. POOJ is broken.

Day 11 Ruins in the Forest is way better than
whatever the fxkk that 16.5 crap is.

Yu-Gi-Oh Philippines National Judge
Pojo's Esteemed Q&A Fudge


Never doubt.
SkullBuster is offline  
Old 12-19-2010, 01:05 PM   #8
Arcninja
Pojo Veteren
 
Arcninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 3,389
iTrader: 0
Arcninja is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebanlistsuxx View Post
the above is when they use prio
---
the below is when they do not use prio
Thats what I wanted to know. Thank you.
__________________
Adrian Sean Shakir
Invite to Worlds 2012
YCS Seattle 2012 3rd Place
NA WCQ 2012 5th Place
YCS Dallas 2012 Top 16
YCS Miami 2013 Top 16
YCS Atlanta 2014 Top 16
ARG Nationals 20K 2014 Top 16
YCS Long Beach 2012 Top 64
NA WCQ 2010 Top 64
8 Regional Top 8's
Arcninja is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 05:59 AM   #9
Lorentzen
Registered User
 
Lorentzen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Denmark, Hvidovre 2650
Age: 21
Posts: 364
iTrader: 2 (100%)
Lorentzen is on a distinguished road
Default

what if lonefire tributes itself to summon another lonefire, since the second lonefire i summoned true a resolution you don't have priority to use its effect again, thus giving the opponent a chance to use effect veiler on it. Can it use its effect to tribute itself when it have already been negated by effect veiler, because it will no longer be on the field which is the only place effect veiler negates.
Lorentzen is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:14 AM   #10
SkullBuster
Flaming Anime Artist
 
SkullBuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Performing 775-hit juggle combos in the Endless Frontier..
Posts: 19,540
iTrader: 1 (100%)
SkullBuster is on a distinguished road
Default

Is that a question???????????????????????????????
You should use a question mark for questions. >_>

No, you cannot respond to the Summon of the second Lonefire with an Effect Veiler.
The opponent still has priority to activate the Ignition Effect of that Lonefire, since the previous Chain ended in a Summon.
__________________
"The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."
I stopped counting. POOJ is broken.

Day 11 Ruins in the Forest is way better than
whatever the fxkk that 16.5 crap is.

Yu-Gi-Oh Philippines National Judge
Pojo's Esteemed Q&A Fudge


Never doubt.
SkullBuster is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:17 AM   #11
hello123
Registered User
 
hello123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 176
iTrader: 0
hello123 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebanlistsuxx View Post
if it tributes itself you cannot chain effect veiler to lonefire and say you want to negate it as lonefire is not on the field anymore and therefor cannot be targeted by veiler.

---
if you use veiler before the opponent activates lonefires effect, then it will negate lonefires effect, but the opp will not be stupid enough to activate it in that case.
correct
---
well you can still tribute itself so its no longer face up on the field and the effect will no longer be negated
hello123 is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:32 AM   #12
Androfrost
Pojo Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 572
iTrader: 1 (100%)
Androfrost is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello123 View Post
correct
---
well you can still tribute itself so its no longer face up on the field and the effect will no longer be negated
If effect veiler has resolved targeting a face-up Lonefire Blossom and you later activate Lonefire Blossom's effect by tributing itself it will not resolve regardless if its face-up on the field or not. This negation works differently from Skill Drain.
__________________
Level 1 Judge

Androfrost is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 10:34 AM   #13
illusionX
Beta Tester!
 
illusionX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: killeen, texas
Posts: 6,719
iTrader: 23 (100%)
illusionX is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorentzen View Post
what if lonefire tributes itself to summon another lonefire, since the second lonefire i summoned true a resolution you don't have priority to use its effect again, thus giving the opponent a chance to use effect veiler on it. Can it use its effect to tribute itself when it have already been negated by effect veiler, because it will no longer be on the field which is the only place effect veiler negates.
I've noticed that this incorrect thought has been appearing a lot lately. Does anyone know why?
__________________
"With each kill, I grow wiser; with added wisdom, I grow stronger..."-Artemis Entreri

Quote:
Read the rulebook. Read the rulings. Read the sticky "Rulings FAQ: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING!" Use the search function. If you ask a question without doing so, you are an idiot and will be treated as such.
illusionX is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 10:39 AM   #14
Redshift
Pojiwadai Elite 4
 
Redshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 46,140
iTrader: 105 (100%)
Redshift has a spectacular aura aboutRedshift has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by illusionX View Post
I've noticed that this incorrect thought has been appearing a lot lately. Does anyone know why?
Perhaps because "Substitoad" is banned, and it used to pull off that kind of 'priority cycle' to greatest effect.
__________________
● Number VI of the YGOrganization
Hunting Numbers: 88

RC-1, RC-2 & PC-1 Certified
3DS Friend Code: 2208 5236 3793
Redshift is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 11:57 AM   #15
Kinshin
Katawa Shoujo Vet
 
Kinshin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Yamaku High
Posts: 3,006
iTrader: 0
Kinshin is on a distinguished road
Default

To condense the conversation:
If you have priority at the time of Lonefire's summon you can tribute it and use it's effect and Effect Veiler or a card like it can't do anything about it.

If Skill Drain or a card like it is on the field you don't need priority to use Lonefire's effect as Lonefire tributes itself as a cost for it's own effect so it's no longer on the field to be negated.

Any effects akin to either Skill Drain or Effect Veiler should have this same ruling.

Thanks alot for clearing this up for me (Woot no more getting cheated by Veiler)
__________________
http://standupvanguard.blogspot.com VG Blog
3DS FC: 4210-4300-5977

Quote:
Vanathor: and never consider this again
Vanathor: EVER!
Yuginshin: ...
Yuginshin: sowwy...
Yuginshin: I didn't mean to bother you with it...
Vanathor: I...I can't stay mad at you...
Vanathor: to moe
Vanathor: way to moe
Yuginshin: ...
Kinshin is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:30 PM   #16
Redshift
Pojiwadai Elite 4
 
Redshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 46,140
iTrader: 105 (100%)
Redshift has a spectacular aura aboutRedshift has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinshin View Post
To condense the conversation:
If you have priority at the time of Lonefire's summon you can tribute it and use it's effect and Effect Veiler or a card like it can't do anything about it.
It doesn't have to be the Summon of "Lonefire Blossom". It can be the Summon of any monster, and you will retain priority to activate any Ignition Effect or Spell Speed 2+ effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinshin
If Skill Drain or a card like it is on the field you don't need priority to use Lonefire's effect as Lonefire tributes itself as a cost for it's own effect so it's no longer on the field to be negated.
What does priority have to do with negation? "Skill Drain" does not change anything regarding priority.
__________________
● Number VI of the YGOrganization
Hunting Numbers: 88

RC-1, RC-2 & PC-1 Certified
3DS Friend Code: 2208 5236 3793
Redshift is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 01:40 PM   #17
Kinshin
Katawa Shoujo Vet
 
Kinshin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Yamaku High
Posts: 3,006
iTrader: 0
Kinshin is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
It doesn't have to be the Summon of "Lonefire Blossom". It can be the Summon of any monster, and you will retain priority to activate any Ignition Effect or Spell Speed 2+ effect.
.
I was just using lonefire as an example to simplify it for myself. What i didn't know was that Spell Speed 2 effects worked through Veiler... Then now I need to know what does Veiler stop?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift
What does priority have to do with negation? "Skill Drain" does not change anything regarding priority.

I know Skill Drain doesn't change anything related to priority. It just negates all effects of effect monsters face-up on the field or something to that effect.


Thanks for not outright bashing me for my oversights and explaining in detail the small things I didn't quite pickup on after reading the thread.
__________________
http://standupvanguard.blogspot.com VG Blog
3DS FC: 4210-4300-5977

Quote:
Vanathor: and never consider this again
Vanathor: EVER!
Yuginshin: ...
Yuginshin: sowwy...
Yuginshin: I didn't mean to bother you with it...
Vanathor: I...I can't stay mad at you...
Vanathor: to moe
Vanathor: way to moe
Yuginshin: ...
Kinshin is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 01:45 PM   #18
Redshift
Pojiwadai Elite 4
 
Redshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 46,140
iTrader: 105 (100%)
Redshift has a spectacular aura aboutRedshift has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinshin View Post
I was just using lonefire as an example to simplify it for myself. What i didn't know was that Spell Speed 2 effects worked through Veiler... Then now I need to know what does Veiler stop?
I'm not talking about "Effect Veiler". I'm just saying, that when you Summon a monster, you have priority to activate any applicable Spell Speed 2 or higher effect, or an Ignition Effect, before your opponent. For example, if you Summon a "Dark Simorgh", you have priority to activate the effect of your "Chaos Sorcerer" (for example) or activate "Icarus Attack" before your opponent can respond with something like "Bottomless Trap Hole" or "Effect Veiler". That doesn't mean they 'get through' "Effect Veiler".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinshin
I know Skill Drain doesn't change anything related to priority. It just negates all effects of effect monsters face-up on the field or something to that effect.
I was confused by you using the phrase, 'If "Skill Drain" or a card like it is on the field you don't need priority to use Lonefire's effect'. From a ruling point of view, it doesn't really make any sense.
__________________
● Number VI of the YGOrganization
Hunting Numbers: 88

RC-1, RC-2 & PC-1 Certified
3DS Friend Code: 2208 5236 3793
Redshift is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 02:28 PM   #19
Jynx
Troll Butcher
 
Jynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In hell
Age: 30
Posts: 28,630
iTrader: 0
Jynx will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebanlistsuxx View Post
if it tributes itself you cannot chain effect veiler to lonefire and say you want to negate it as lonefire is not on the field anymore and therefor cannot be targeted by veiler.

---
if you use veiler before the opponent activates lonefires effect, then it will negate lonefires effect, but the opp will not be stupid enough to activate it in that case.
Your wrong on the second one. Veiler still cannot negate because you tribute it as a cost.
__________________
The Loneliest People are the Kindest
The Saddest People Smile the Brightest
The Most Damaged People are the Wisest
All Because They Don't Wish Others
To Feel as Bad as They Do
Jynx is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 02:31 PM   #20
Demetriio
Happy 2011 XD
 
Demetriio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
iTrader: 0
Demetriio is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen_Asher View Post
Your wrong on the second one. Veiler still cannot negate because you tribute it as a cost.
If effect veiler's effect resolves successfully it would negate Lonefire Blossom effect if the effect of Lonefire Blossom is activated later in the same turn
__________________
Quote:
nawo, ryo, futoshi y daisuke en ese orden Xd
Yeeees they have an official youtube channel Xd
Check maximum the hormone they are good!
Retired until i get bored from what im doing right now
Demetriio is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 02:32 PM   #21
Jynx
Troll Butcher
 
Jynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In hell
Age: 30
Posts: 28,630
iTrader: 0
Jynx will become famous soon enough
Default

Also if you summon a Lonefire from another Lonefire you retain priority off the second summon unless you pass so you can also tribute it with Priority and search with out Veiler being able to effect it. The only way you can use Veiler on Lonefire is if they summon it and pass priority with out using it's effect. At that point you can activate Veiler to negate it's effect for the turn.

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demetriio View Post
If effect veiler effect resolves successfully it would negate Lonefire Blossom effect if the effect of Lonefire Blossom is activated later in the same turn
No because Effect Veiler only stops the card it is trying to target not all cards with that same name.
__________________
The Loneliest People are the Kindest
The Saddest People Smile the Brightest
The Most Damaged People are the Wisest
All Because They Don't Wish Others
To Feel as Bad as They Do

Last edited by Jynx : 12-23-2010 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Jynx is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 02:35 PM   #22
Demetriio
Happy 2011 XD
 
Demetriio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
iTrader: 0
Demetriio is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen_Asher View Post

No because Effect Veiler only stops the card it is trying to target not all cards with that same name.
mmm you misunderstood what thebanlistsuxx is trying to say
__________________
Quote:
nawo, ryo, futoshi y daisuke en ese orden Xd
Yeeees they have an official youtube channel Xd
Check maximum the hormone they are good!
Retired until i get bored from what im doing right now
Demetriio is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 02:36 PM   #23
Jynx
Troll Butcher
 
Jynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In hell
Age: 30
Posts: 28,630
iTrader: 0
Jynx will become famous soon enough
Default

Okay re explain please?
__________________
The Loneliest People are the Kindest
The Saddest People Smile the Brightest
The Most Damaged People are the Wisest
All Because They Don't Wish Others
To Feel as Bad as They Do
Jynx is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 02:41 PM   #24
Demetriio
Happy 2011 XD
 
Demetriio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
iTrader: 0
Demetriio is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen_Asher View Post
Okay re explain please?
Effect veilier has already negated Lonefire Blossom effect

that is what he is saying
__________________
Quote:
nawo, ryo, futoshi y daisuke en ese orden Xd
Yeeees they have an official youtube channel Xd
Check maximum the hormone they are good!
Retired until i get bored from what im doing right now
Demetriio is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 02:42 PM   #25
strikemasterice
Pojo Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,701
iTrader: 0
strikemasterice is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demetriio View Post
Effect veilier is already negating Lonefire Blossom effect

that is what he is saying
Edited. Hope that clarifies for Fallen Asher more.
strikemasterice is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

 
Advertisement


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.