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Old 10-03-2010, 09:25 PM   #1
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Default Future Fusion

Just a few quick question regarding the card in case I run into a Dragon deck in Philly. (Pretty sure I will)
I know these have all been answered, but I blow with Pojo's search function.


Future Fusion vs Royal Oppression? Kind of self explanatory. How does this work?

Future Fusion vs Solemn Warning? Do I Warning the original activation or the summon of the fusion monster? Or can I do either?


If my opponent activates Future Fusion and I chain MST to it do they still send the monsters to the grave?



I already know you cannot activate Future Fusion in the same turn you activate Pot of Duality, even though it makes no sense.


Side note: They changed the ruling on Solemn Warning vs Infernity Launcher right? I can't activate Warning?
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:29 PM   #2
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1. You negate the initial activation. No monsters are sent to the Graveyard.

2. The actual Special Summon does not start a Chain. There's nothing there to negate. You again negate the initial activation.

3. Nope.

4. Cool.

5. Yup.
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:30 PM   #3
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1. You Opression the initial activation of Future Fusion, not when the monster comes out.
2. The same thing as above.
3. No, the monsters do not get sent.
4. Correct, you cannot activate Warning at all against Infernity Launcer

Edit: Damn, got beat to it
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:30 PM   #4
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Thank you, good sir.

And thank you sir-that-got-ninja'd.
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:32 PM   #5
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It's best to think of "Future Fusion" as a time released "Polymerization". You would have to negate the activation of the card.

If you MST the FF as a chain, they will not dump.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:11 PM   #6
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Hold on!

You can stop the monsters from getting sent to the graveyard by chaining MST Or Dust Tornado? seriously?
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by footfoe View Post
Hold on!

You can stop the monsters from getting sent to the graveyard by chaining MST Or Dust Tornado? seriously?
Yes, sending the monsters to the Graveyard is not a cost. And, since "Future Fusion" is a Continuous Spell, it must remain face-up while resolving in order to do anything.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:16 PM   #8
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Yes, sending the monsters to the Graveyard is not a cost. And, since "Future Fusion" is a Continuous Spell, it must remain face-up while resolving in order to do anything.
okay, and if you destroy it next turn, are the monsters still in the grave?

Cause i see dragon users just do this to get monsters in the grave. And if you remove monsters from the grave will the fusion still go through?

Sorry for the silly questions, i'm new as you can see.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
and if you destroy it next turn, are the monsters still in the grave?
Why would they leave?

Quote:
And if you remove monsters from the grave will the fusion still go through?
Yes, the monster is still Fusion Summoned.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KcKuhtastrophe View Post
I already know you cannot activate Future Fusion in the same turn you activate Pot of Duality, even though it makes no sense.
you have two choices,

- special summon and dont use pot of duality
OR
- use pot of duality but dont special summon.

pick one, not both.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:09 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by xSHiNOx View Post
you have two choices,

- special summon and dont use pot of duality
OR
- use pot of duality but dont special summon.

pick one, not both.
I say it makes no sense because, well, Future Fusion doesn't special summon for two turns...

But someone told me before that you're "attempting to special summon" which quite frankly makes even less sense.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by KcKuhtastrophe View Post
I say it makes no sense because, well, Future Fusion doesn't special summon for two turns...

But someone told me before that you're "attempting to special summon" which quite frankly makes even less sense.
Future Fusion is considered to perform a Special Summon when it initially resolves. It's pretty unique in that aspect.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ness00 View Post
Future Fusion is considered to perform a Special Summon when it initially resolves. It's pretty unique in that aspect.
Does this same ruling apply to Dark Nepthys?
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by KcKuhtastrophe View Post
Does this same ruling apply to Dark Nepthys?
Edit: Was thinking of "Dark Simorgh". And no, it is not the same as "Dark Nephthys".
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:37 AM   #15
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Nephthys has separate effects. Dumping it is an Ignition Effect, Summoning it is a Trigger Effect (and destroying a S/T is a third Trigger Effect)
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:41 AM   #16
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I see .
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:50 AM   #17
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So Pot of Duality and Future Fusion can't be activated on the same turn because Future Fusion is considered to have performed a Special Summon then. Check.

What about an already activated Future Fusion waiting to bring a monster out? Can you activate Pot of Duality on the same turn that Future Fusion physically brings the Fusion Monster to the field, or is it also considered to be performing a Special Summon then as well?

If that is also considered performing a Special Summon, does than mean Future Fusion performs two separate Special Summons?

If so, what does that mean for cards like Black Garden that have effects that activate when a monster is Special Summoned? Would Black Garden ultimately Special Summon two "Rose Tokens", one for each Special Summon that Future Fusion performs?
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You could have put Sangan on the field, moved it around a few zones and made it dance. If something negates his summon, then like the Men in Black, he was never there.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:54 AM   #18
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I dont even think Black Garden can apply its effect against Future Fusion.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sup3rNo7a View Post
So Pot of Duality and Future Fusion can't be activated on the same turn because Future Fusion is considered to have performed a Special Summon then. Check.

What about an already activated Future Fusion waiting to bring a monster out? Can you activate Pot of Duality on the same turn that Future Fusion physically brings the Fusion Monster to the field, or is it also considered to be performing a Special Summon then as well?

If that is also considered performing a Special Summon, does than mean Future Fusion performs two separate Special Summons?

If so, what does that mean for cards like Black Garden that have effects that activate when a monster is Special Summoned? Would Black Garden ultimately Special Summon two "Rose Tokens", one for each Special Summon that Future Fusion performs?
Konami says, Future Fusion only anounces a Special Summon but doesn't count as one on the turn it is activated, so Future Fusion + Duality + same turn = Yay. The thing, that it anounces a Special Summon lets Oppression negate the whole stuff.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:48 AM   #20
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Konami says, You can chain "Royal Oppression" to negate "Future Fusion" when the card is activated (placed face-up on the field).[1]

and

However, during the second Standby Phase when the Fusion Monster is Special Summoned, you cannot activate the effect of "Royal Oppression".[8]

So your "anounces a Special Summon" theory is not waterproof!
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sup3rNo7a View Post
So Pot of Duality and Future Fusion can't be activated on the same turn because Future Fusion is considered to have performed a Special Summon then. Check.

What about an already activated Future Fusion waiting to bring a monster out? Can you activate Pot of Duality on the same turn that Future Fusion physically brings the Fusion Monster to the field, or is it also considered to be performing a Special Summon then as well?

If that is also considered performing a Special Summon, does than mean Future Fusion performs two separate Special Summons?

If so, what does that mean for cards like Black Garden that have effects that activate when a monster is Special Summoned? Would Black Garden ultimately Special Summon two "Rose Tokens", one for each Special Summon that Future Fusion performs?
1. Correct.

2. You can only use "Pot of Duality" during the turn in between "Future Fusion"'s activation and the actual Summon of the Fusion Monster, or any time outside of those two turns.

3. No, not really.

4. Cards that respond to Summons, like "Bottomless Trap Hole" and "Black Garden", will still do so normally when the Fusion Monster is actually Summoned. You can't chain to the effect that brings out the Fusion Monster during the second Standby Phase, but you can certainly respond to it. Only 1 "Rose Token" is Summoned. How would "Black Garden" be able to halve the ATK of the Fusion Monster when "Future Fusion" is first activated anyway?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KcKuhtastrophe View Post
I dont even think Black Garden can apply its effect against Future Fusion.
When the Fusion Monster is Special Summoned in the second Standby Phase, either player can respond with effects like any other Summon. "Black Garden" will halve the Fusion Monster's ATK and Special Summon a "Rose Token".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSephiroth View Post
Konami says, Future Fusion only anounces a Special Summon but doesn't count as one on the turn it is activated, so Future Fusion + Duality + same turn = Yay. The thing, that it anounces a Special Summon lets Oppression negate the whole stuff.
Where does Konami say that? You can't use "Future Fusion" and "Pot of Duality" on the same turn.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:20 AM   #22
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How would "Black Garden" be able to halve the ATK of the Fusion Monster when "Future Fusion" is first activated anyway?
Black Garden doesn't have to halve an ATK for it to Special Summon a "Rose Token".

ex:
- "If a monster is Special Summoned face-down, "Black Garden's" first effect still activates. The monster's ATK is not halved, but a "Rose Token" is still Special Summoned."
- "If a monster that is unaffected by the effects of Spell Cards is Normal or Special Summoned, its ATK will not be halved by "Black Garden's" effect, but the "Rose Token" is still Special Summoned."

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Black_Garden


I will accept the argument that a "Rose Token" isn't Special Summoned by Black Garden when Future Fusion is activated because a monster isn't actually being Special Summoned when Future Fusion is activated, however.

But, if that is the case, it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't be able to activate Pot of Duality and Future Fusion on the same turn.

Pot of Duality states "You cannot Special Summon a monster(s) during the turn you activate this card.". However, Future Fusion doesn't actually Special Summon a monster on the turn it is activate, it just announces that it will be performing one. Because a monster is not actually being Special Summoned that turn, it should be legal to activate Pot of Duality.


Note: I'm not arguing the current ruling, which I accept to be that you cannot activate Pot of Duality and Future Fusion on the same turn. What I am arguing is that the current ruling makes no sense, and should not be what it currently is.
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You could have put Sangan on the field, moved it around a few zones and made it dance. If something negates his summon, then like the Men in Black, he was never there.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:34 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sup3rNo7a View Post
Black Garden doesn't have to halve an ATK for it to Special Summon a "Rose Token".

ex:
- "If a monster is Special Summoned face-down, "Black Garden's" first effect still activates. The monster's ATK is not halved, but a "Rose Token" is still Special Summoned."
- "If a monster that is unaffected by the effects of Spell Cards is Normal or Special Summoned, its ATK will not be halved by "Black Garden's" effect, but the "Rose Token" is still Special Summoned."

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Black_Garden


I will accept the argument that a "Rose Token" isn't Special Summoned by Black Garden when Future Fusion is activated because a monster isn't actually being Special Summoned when Future Fusion is activated, however.

But, if that is the case, it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't be able to activate Pot of Duality and Future Fusion on the same turn.

Pot of Duality states "You cannot Special Summon a monster(s) during the turn you activate this card.". However, Future Fusion doesn't actually Special Summon a monster on the turn it is activate, it just announces that it will be performing one. Because a monster is not actually being Special Summoned that turn, it should be legal to activate Pot of Duality.


Note: I'm not arguing the current ruling, which I accept to be that you cannot activate Pot of Duality and Future Fusion on the same turn. What I am arguing is that the current ruling makes no sense, and should not be what it currently is.
Future Fusion is an odd card. It is considered to perform a fusion summon when its activated, but the card is not special summoned from the extra deck for another 2 turns.

I think Black Garden needs the monster to actually show up for it to trigger. the rulings you quoted are all instances where the monster is/was present, not an instance where a monster isn't.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:40 PM   #24
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Which makes sense. A monster isn't actually Special Summoned when Future Fusion is activated, so Black Garden would not Special Summon a "Rose Token".

However, Pot of Duality also states that you cannot "Special Summon a monster(s)" on the same turn you activate it, implying that a monster(s) physically needs to be Special Summoned that same turn to meet that condition, not that you cannot "perform a Special Summon". If Pot of Duality said that you could not "perform a Special Summon" on the same turn you activate it, then the current ruling makes sense. As it is, the ruling just makes no sense with the way the card is printed.

So, in my opinion, one of two things needs to happen:
- The ruling that you cannot activate Pot of Duality and Future Fusion on the same turn needs to change.
-OR-
- Pot of Duality needs to be errata'd so that its printed text matches its official rulings.
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You could have put Sangan on the field, moved it around a few zones and made it dance. If something negates his summon, then like the Men in Black, he was never there.

Last edited by Sup3rNo7a : 10-04-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sup3rNo7a View Post
Which makes sense. A monster isn't actually Special Summoned when Future Fusion is activated, so Black Garden would not Special Summon a "Rose Token".

However, Pot of Duality also states that you cannot "Special Summon a monster(s)" on the same turn you activate it, implying that a monster(s) physically needs to be Special Summoned that same turn to meet that condition, not that you cannot "perform a Special Summon". If Pot of Duality said that you could not "perform a Special Summon" on the same turn you activate it, then the current ruling makes sense. As it is, the ruling just makes no sense with the way the card is printed.

So, in my opinion, one of two things needs to happen:
- The ruling that you cannot activate Pot of Duality and Future Fusion on the same turn needs to change.
-OR-
- Pot of Duality needs to be errata'd so that its printed text matches its official rulings.
There are many times that printed text doesn't match official rulings. see D.D. Survivor....and Stardust...
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