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Old 04-10-2010, 11:05 AM   #1
holon_zz
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Default First Turn Kill (BW rules, Almost tier 0, lol)

Updated to fit with the new black/white rules, now you can play trainers/supporters or stadiums if you go first.

Pokemon - 8
4 Crobat G (PL)
4 Sableye (SF)

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 49
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Super Scoop Up
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
3 Pokemon Collector
2 Mr. Fuji
1 Misty's Wrath
3 Space Center

Energy - 3
Darkness energy (special)

Flip Sableye to go first, drop your Crobats(collector and space center are here to combat Spiritomb plays if you don't need them use them as discard fodder with item finder or junk arm), and then win from there, Sableye can KO pokemon with 50HP or less.
Collector is nice, you can get your crobats going early in the game so scoop ups and fujis aren't dead draws.

Pretty much the only way to beat this is playing Sableye yourself and winning the coin flip.

Have fun.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was the list used before Black/White rules, I'll leave it here just for reference.

Pokemon - 6
4 Crobat G (PL)
1 Spiritomb (LA) (Guys this spiritomb doesn't lock trainers, AR spiritomb does)
1 Jolteon "star" (PK)

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 54
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Super Scoop Up
4 Mr. Fuji
4 Poke Blower +
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Victory Medal
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
4 Misty's Wrath
1 Luxury Ball
1 Seeker

Last edited by holon_zz : 05-07-2011 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:44 PM   #2
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I'm trying to get back into Pokemon, mind explaining this to me????
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:42 PM   #3
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Sure, Crobat G places a damage counter when you play it into your bench, poketurn returns crobat to your hand, scoop up does the same, super scoop up does the same but whit a coinflip.
Jolteon* places a damage counter on both active pokemon when you play it so it is just another crobat. Spiritomb places 1 counter on every pokemon in play that has any counters.
The goal is to KO every single pokemon of your opponent by placing counters. And it is very easy to do actually the deck plays a good amount of draw cards.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:37 PM   #4
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I would try to fit in Uxie (Legends Awakened), Shuppet (Platinum), Pluspower, and Expert Belt (Arceus)... and then you're pretty much set. You might want to add Super Energy Removal and see if that helps. Add a Warp Energy in case Spiritomb becomes active, because then you can't use your own trainers... that would be bad. Rework through the trainers a little and prioritize them, because of them could be removed.

4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
4 Victory Medal
4 Mr. Fuji
4 Poke Blower +
Super Scoop Up even...

could be removed...

Additional Comment:

Also think about Combee (Stormfront) for trainer lock...
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Last edited by Alazor : 05-11-2010 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 06-13-2010, 08:55 PM   #5
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If your going Unlimited, you should also watch out for Neo Magby as well. Real fun deck to play though. Maybe you can fit in some Zapdos (MD). Depends on if you want to flip the coin or not (And if you do, you might like Digger and Venture Bomb). Also, I don't see any Stadiums. Although they are not required or anything, they can still help. I would go with either Giant Stump or Narrow Gym( Which can hurt you as well, depending on the situation).

One more thing, as Alazor mentioned, you can sort of turn it into a Crobat G/ Shuppet Donk hybrid( Which would be pretty sick, but I haven't play tested it or anything). But, another way to go would be adding in Jolteon EX, Eevee(UF), Broken Time-Space, and Hyper Devolution Spray. Hope this helps.
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Old 07-01-2010, 06:57 PM   #6
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why do you need plus powers for this deck?

theres no attacking going on, placing damage counters=/= attacking

never mind, I dont know where I thought I saw plus powers at... good deck idea

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Old 07-11-2010, 08:37 PM   #7
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you need more card (60 cards altogether) and more pokemon there's no hope in getting a basic with only 6 pokemon
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:27 PM   #8
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you need more card (60 cards altogether) and more pokemon there's no hope in getting a basic with only 6 pokemon
yeah, more cards are neccessary
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #9
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also i see no eevee for jolteon i say eevee from RR
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Old 08-19-2010, 09:40 PM   #10
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Whoa I forgot about this deck.

I am playing only 6 basics because it is the maximum amount of pokemon that I can play that way I can avoid dead draws. But yeah I agree that I'm going to have a hard time at the start of the game with mulligans. I think Crobat G is better than Jolteon because of Poketurn

But as I said earlier, if I go second I pretty much win.
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Old 08-21-2010, 01:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
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also i see no eevee for jolteon i say eevee from RR
Jolteon* is a basic.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:29 PM   #12
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run a shiny duskull.

3 damage counters for free at the end of the turn. its like a triple flash bite to the active and you dont need energy for it either. make space for it.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:05 AM   #13
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so, I ran this deck today with a couple of mods (digger and venture bomb instead of mistys wrath and victory medal) it's my favorite deck I've ever played
so much fun
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Old 11-25-2010, 07:55 AM   #14
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Wow, gonna try that.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:11 PM   #15
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I guess this deck needs a revamp, I just saw this new Junk Arm card and it is actually broken in this deck, so I guess I should fit 4 of these here.
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:46 AM   #16
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Storm Front Gastly isn't just your weakness. It shuts this deck down in it's tracks and kills it. I'd suggest adding some babies to make Gastly's attack a 50/50 deal on turn one. also some cyclone energy would help get rid of a spirit bomb.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:20 PM   #17
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I honestly think you should throw in a squirtle/zubat for extra dmg counters.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:17 PM   #18
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Update*

Pokemon - 6
4 Crobat G (PL)
1 Spiritomb (LA) (Guys this spiritomb doesn't lock trainers, AR spiritomb does)
1 Jolteon "star" (PK)

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 54
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Super Scoop Up
4 Mr. Fuji
4 Poke Blower +
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
2 Misty's Wrath
2 Space Center
1 Luxury Ball
1 Seeker

Space center is a neat idea, shuts down basic pokemon pokebodies, like Spiritomb AR. I'm kinda iffy about adding baby pokemon since they are kinda easy to get around, but yeah I guess it would be the only out to stormfront Gastly.


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I honestly think you should throw in a squirtle/zubat for extra dmg counters.
Uh, squirtle and zubat? What the
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:37 PM   #19
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Let me edit this comment now that the rules have changed and, starting April 25th, any player going first can play any card they want (except evolve):

This deck is now fantastic. Changes I would make is run 4 Sableye SF to make sure you go first. I just dont see how any other deck could really hold up against this. I would tweak the trainers a bit though if I choose to run this and be evil.

Last edited by meowmers : 04-04-2011 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:25 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by meowmers View Post
Let me edit this comment now that the rules have changed and, starting April 25th, any player going first can play any card they want (except evolve):

This deck is now fantastic. Changes I would make is run 4 Sableye SF to make sure you go first. I just dont see how any other deck could really hold up against this. I would tweak the trainers a bit though if I choose to run this and be evil.
Wow, with that rule change Ghasty SF just became obsolete and Sableye just became a stapple card in unlimited. I have to change out all my Ghastys with Sableyes
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meowmers View Post
Let me edit this comment now that the rules have changed and, starting April 25th, any player going first can play any card they want (except evolve):

Haha, wow this is insane, now unlimited has a tier 0 deck thanks to sableye, gonna update the original post ASAP, I hope you people like the changes that I'm going to make.



EDIT: Now updated!

Last edited by holon_zz : 04-26-2011 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaDragon_00 View Post
Updated to fit with the new black/white rules, now you can play trainers/supporters or stadiums if you go first.

Pokemon - 8
4 Crobat G (PL)
4 Sableye (SF)

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 49
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Super Scoop Up
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
3 Pokemon Collector
2 Mr. Fuji
1 Misty's Wrath
3 Space Center

Energy - 3
Darkness energy (special)

Flip Sableye to go first, drop your Crobats(collector and space center are here to combat Spiritomb plays if you don't need them use them as discard fodder with item finder or junk arm), and then win from there, Sableye can KO pokemon with 50HP or less.
Collector is nice, you can get your crobats going early in the game so scoop ups and fujis aren't dead draws.

Pretty much the only way to beat this is opening with a Sableye and winning the coin flip.

Have fun.
best to make new posts with revisions than to edit the original post. Otherwise all the responses make no sense. I would keep the Shining Jolteon and the spiritomb. I would also go back to 4 Fujis. I think Pokemon collector is an excellent addition. I would also go with Professor Juniper. I think with a different balance of trainers you can make this a much more effective second turn deck.

Not sure what you mean about a coin flip. Sabeleye's power is nulified by another Sableye. If both decks run Sableye in four the odds go very close to even for the first turn start even if the opposing deck has far more than 8 basics. 4 of any card gives you about a 40% chance of drawing that card. So you are only at about a 5% advantage with the 8 basics. Of course the mulligans make the odds even closer. I think you can do more by working on a second turn strategy. IMO that is all about recovery from Lass (which will certainly see a return to power with the new rules) and maximum damage potential against a fully loaded bench.

This looks to me to be one of two top decks with the rule change.

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaDragon_00 View Post
Updated to fit with the new black/white rules, now you can play trainers/supporters or stadiums if you go first.

Pokemon - 8
4 Crobat G (PL)
4 Sableye (SF)

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 49
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Super Scoop Up
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
3 Pokemon Collector
2 Mr. Fuji
1 Misty's Wrath
3 Space Center

Energy - 3
Darkness energy (special)

Flip Sableye to go first, drop your Crobats(collector and space center are here to combat Spiritomb plays if you don't need them use them as discard fodder with item finder or junk arm), and then win from there, Sableye can KO pokemon with 50HP or less.
Collector is nice, you can get your crobats going early in the game so scoop ups and fujis aren't dead draws.

Pretty much the only way to beat this is opening with a Sableye and winning the coin flip.

Have fun.
Here is where I would go with it

Pokemon - 8
3 Crobat G (PL)
4 Sableye (SF)
1 Shining Jolteon

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 52
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Poke Blower
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
2 Pokemon Collector
4 Mr. Fuji
2 Space Center
4 Professor Juniper


I do think that while the advantage of 8 pokemon over more is marginal It is worth the exta mathematical advantage of assuring a start with Sableye and it allows for more trainers which is essential either if you go first or second. I like Jolteon in place of 1 Crobat for the added damage. I think the Junipers are important in recovering from going second and being Lassed eeeked. If you don't need the Junipers they make great discard cards for the item finders, junk arms and computer searches. But 8 shots at an Oak or an *equivalant* is worth for 4 spots IMO.

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooboy View Post
best to make new posts with revisions than to edit the original post. Otherwise all the responses make no sense. I would keep the Shining Jolteon and the spiritomb. I would also go back to 4 Fujis. I think Pokemon collector is an excellent addition. I would also go with Professor Juniper. I think with a different balance of trainers you can make this a much more effective second turn deck.

Not sure what you mean about a coin flip. Sabeleye's power is nulified by another Sableye. If both decks run Sableye in four the odds go very close to even for the first turn start even if the opposing deck has far more than 8 basics. 4 of any card gives you about a 40% chance of drawing that card. So you are only at about a 5% advantage with the 8 basics. Of course the mulligans make the odds even closer. I think you can do more by working on a second turn strategy. IMO that is all about recovery from Lass (which will certainly see a return to power with the new rules) and maximum damage potential against a fully loaded bench.

This looks to me to be one of two top decks with the rule change.

Additional Comment:


Here is where I would go with it

Pokemon - 8
3 Crobat G (PL)
4 Sableye (SF)
1 Shining Jolteon

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 52
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Poke Blower
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
2 Pokemon Collector
4 Mr. Fuji
2 Space Center
4 Professor Juniper


I do think that while the advantage of 8 pokemon over more is marginal It is worth the exta mathematical advantage of assuring a start with Sableye and it allows for more trainers which is essential either if you go first or second. I like Jolteon in place of 1 Crobat for the added damage. I think the Junipers are important in recovering from going second and being Lassed eeeked. If you don't need the Junipers they make great discard cards for the item finders, junk arms and computer searches. But 8 shots at an Oak or an *equivalant* is worth for 4 spots IMO.
Did some playtesting and made a few mods.


Pokemon - 7
3 Crobat G (PL)
4 Sableye (SF)

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 51
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Poke Blower
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
3 Professor Juniper
3 Super Scoopup
3 Mr. Fuji
2 Space Center

Energy - 2
2 Darkness energy

It might run better with two Crobat instead of three. The increased likelyhood of starting with a Sableye might outweigh the increased muligans and the much more substantial chance of getting all Crobats lost in the prizes. I wish I knew how to do the math on all three possibilities so I could weigh them against each other. I will do some more play testing.

Oh, with the current rules this may very well be the first truly broken deck. It is tier 0. And...it is also absolutely no fun to play. Unlimited is now officially ruined until they change the rules again.

Last edited by Gooboy : 05-05-2011 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:57 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooboy View Post
best to make new posts with revisions than to edit the original post. Otherwise all the responses make no sense. I would keep the Shining Jolteon and the spiritomb. I would also go back to 4 Fujis. I think Pokemon collector is an excellent addition. I would also go with Professor Juniper. I think with a different balance of trainers you can make this a much more effective second turn deck.

Not sure what you mean about a coin flip. Sabeleye's power is nulified by another Sableye. If both decks run Sableye in four the odds go very close to even for the first turn start even if the opposing deck has far more than 8 basics. 4 of any card gives you about a 40% chance of drawing that card. So you are only at about a 5% advantage with the 8 basics. Of course the mulligans make the odds even closer. I think you can do more by working on a second turn strategy. IMO that is all about recovery from Lass (which will certainly see a return to power with the new rules) and maximum damage potential against a fully loaded bench.

This looks to me to be one of two top decks with the rule change.

Additional Comment:


Here is where I would go with it

Pokemon - 8
3 Crobat G (PL)
4 Sableye (SF)
1 Shining Jolteon

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 52
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Poke Blower
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
2 Pokemon Collector
4 Mr. Fuji
2 Space Center
4 Professor Juniper


I do think that while the advantage of 8 pokemon over more is marginal It is worth the exta mathematical advantage of assuring a start with Sableye and it allows for more trainers which is essential either if you go first or second. I like Jolteon in place of 1 Crobat for the added damage. I think the Junipers are important in recovering from going second and being Lassed eeeked. If you don't need the Junipers they make great discard cards for the item finders, junk arms and computer searches. But 8 shots at an Oak or an *equivalant* is worth for 4 spots IMO.

Additional Comment:



Did some playtesting and made a few mods.


Pokemon - 7
3 Crobat G (PL)
4 Sableye (SF)

Trainer/Supporter/Stadiums 51
4 TGI Poke Turn
4 Scoop Up
4 Poke Blower
4 Poke Drawer +
4 Professor Oak
4 Item Finder
4 Junk Arm
4 Computer Search
4 Erika
4 Pokedex HANDY 910is
3 Professor Juniper
3 Super Scoopup
3 Mr. Fuji
2 Space Center

Energy - 2
2 Darkness energy

It might run better with two Crobat instead of three. The increased likelyhood of starting with a Sableye might outweigh the increased muligans and the much more substantial chance of getting all Crobats lost in the prizes. I wish I knew how to do the math on all three possibilities so I could weigh them against each other. I will do some more play testing.

Oh, with the current rules this may very well be the first truly broken deck. It is tier 0. And...it is also absolutely no fun to play. Unlimited is now officially ruined until they change the rules again.
Yeah, you might be right on the number of crobats, but I think that 2 is just too low for it.
The collector is meant to be used in conjunction with darkness energy to take down spiritomb, but triple prof juniper could work too.

I'll put the old decklist in the OP for reference.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:38 PM   #24
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How does Space center tech against Spiritomb? Spiritomb's pokebody prevents both players from playing trainer cards fromt heir hand. Space center is a trainer card. If Spiritomb is active Space center is just another dead card.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooboy View Post
How does Space center tech against Spiritomb? Spiritomb's pokebody prevents both players from playing trainer cards fromt heir hand. Space center is a trainer card. If Spiritomb is active Space center is just another dead card.
http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119209

Space center is like the ultimate counter to spiritomb. Now that I think about it, I'd play 4 Space center and drop the collectors and put the luxury ball back along with a level ball.
And I guess I should cut 1 crobat just to increase the odds of a sableye start.
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