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Old 11-14-2009, 01:11 AM   #1
SippDeville
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Default Zombie World vs. Icarus Attack

I know that my opponent can't activate icarus while zombie world is active on a face up, but what about a face down? Would zombie world still have the monster as a zombie, or would it be unaffected by zombie world?
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:19 AM   #2
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Zombie World won't change a face-down monster into a Zombie-type.

If you have a face-down Winged-Beast-type monster, you may still tribute it as a cost for Icarus Attack.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:20 AM   #3
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Face-down monsters are unaffected by Zombie World's effect! So A face-down Winged Beast monster should be able to be tributed for Icarus Attack!

Beaten by "D_Dasher"!
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:21 AM   #4
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Not to question you, as you probably know better than me, but why is that? Since Zombie World says "all monsters on the field" and not all face up monsters, I assumed it would be different. Is it understood that face down monsters aren't affected by field spells? Thanks for the info either way.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:26 AM   #5
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Not to question you, as you probably know better than me, but why is that? Since Zombie World says "all monsters on the field" and not all face up monsters, I assumed it would be different. Is it understood that face down monsters aren't affected by field spells? Thanks for the info either way.
Actually, face-down monsters do not have "types"! You can count that for a reason, I guess!
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:28 AM   #6
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But at some point, icarus would have to check, correct? If they have no face down, then icarus can't check then, right? It would have to check it when it's either in the graveyard, or in limbo. I know you can tribute the face down for icarus, but I guess the question would be, when is it verified as a winged beast type monster?
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:31 AM   #7
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But at some point, icarus would have to check, correct? If they have no face down, then icarus can't check then, right? It would have to check it when it's either in the graveyard, or in limbo. I know you can tribute the face down for icarus, but I guess the question would be, when is it verified as a winged beast type monster?
It has been ruled that cards that tribute monsters with a specific type for their costs, can tribute face-downs!
I don't agree with that!
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:31 AM   #8
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It's verified in the graveyard as to what it was when it was on the field.

If that makes any sense at all.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:44 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ATEMVEGETA View Post
It has been ruled that cards that tribute monsters with a specific type for their costs, can tribute face-downs!
I don't agree with that!
That's not what I'm arguing, I know this to be fact. What I'm saying is would it still be coinsidered a winged beast even though it's face down. And for the other guy that said it checks in the graveyard, zombie world makes it a zombie in the grave too. I'd just like to be completely clear on this before regionals. Thank all of you for your input.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:51 AM   #10
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I know it makes monsters zombies in the grave. That's why I worded my post the way I did.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:52 AM   #11
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I'm still wondering, this is pretty important to me, I'm teching one zombie world and if it's going in my favor (zombie world completely negates it) then I'm going to play 2 over 1.
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:52 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by SippDeville View Post
That's not what I'm arguing, I know this to be fact. What I'm saying is would it still be coinsidered a winged beast even though it's face down. And for the other guy that said it checks in the graveyard, zombie world makes it a zombie in the grave too. I'd just like to be completely clear on this before regionals. Thank all of you for your input.
Well, if you say that Icarus Attack checks the monster's type in the Graveyard, then it should check it before Zombie World makes it Zombie-type!

Sure thing is that this combo works!
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:54 AM   #13
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Why would it check before zombie world? Maybe if they activate it on their turn I could see it, but what about if it was the controller of zombie world's turn?
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Old 11-14-2009, 01:57 AM   #14
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In the end, it doesn't matter how we justify it.

Icarus Attack can tribute a face-down Winged Beast even while Zombie World is active and resolve properly.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:00 AM   #15
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Okay, but can you explain why that is? What precedent are you going on? Again, I'm not questioning you, I'm just curious as to if there is an official ruling I don't know about.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:02 AM   #16
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Why would it check before zombie world? Maybe if they activate it on their turn I could see it, but what about if it was the controller of zombie world's turn?
Meh! Forget about the "check in the Graveyard" thing! Icarus Attack checks the monster when it is still on the field, so for a face-down monster it will check it when it is still face-down, and that's why I disagree with it!
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:03 AM   #17
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It's a combination of things. We've known for a long time that you can tribute face-down monsters for costs (Crush Card, Icarus, and so forth) since players can verify what the monster is when it hits the grave (the game itself knew from the get-go that the tribute was correct). We've also known that face-down monsters are unaffected by fields, and most card effects in general that would alter stats (you can't alter what doesn't exist).

It creates a very contradictory explanation, but that's how it goes...
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:07 AM   #18
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Look, there's no reason to get agitated. I asked a question, I wanted a straight answer. The truth is you don't know, and went on your assumptions. If you don't know why it happens and all you can say is you disagree, just say you don't know. Zombie world doesn't say face up monsters become zombie-type, it says "ALL MONSTERS ON THE FIELD AND ANY GRAVEYARD BECOME ZOMBIE-TYPE" so, I would assume, even face down monster ON THE FIELD would be zombie types. Like I said, don't get mad, but don't pretend to know an official ruling if you don't.

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It's a combination of things. We've known for a long time that you can tribute face-down monsters for costs (Crush Card, Icarus, and so forth) since players can verify what the monster is when it hits the grave (the game itself knew from the get-go that the tribute was correct). We've also known that face-down monsters are unaffected by fields, and most card effects in general that would alter stats (you can't alter what doesn't exist).

It creates a very contradictory explanation, but that's how it goes...
Thank you, that's a little better of an explanation than the other. As I said, I don't know either way, and just want to know the correct ruling before I play it wrong.
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LOL STACKING IS ILLEGAL MANG. "Luck" that is just skillful you have to understand "luck" is about skill.
Shouts out to all the people that stole my sig pic without so much as a thank you.
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Last edited by SippDeville : 11-14-2009 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:14 AM   #19
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Most of the judges here would probably rule it the same way. If you're looking for something more "official", it doesn't exist unfortunately. We do the best we can with what we know, though.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:14 AM   #20
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While I can't control the rulings made at your regionals, my understanding has been that face-down monsters are unaffected by cards like Zombie World & DNA Surgery since they are not seen by the general game'state to carry any designations other than being a monster except for a few rare cases.

The most common of these rare cases involves players wanting to "tribute" a monster in their control for a cost, which looks to break the general rule of thumb, likely due to a combination of bkss & the fact that players are allowed to look at their own face-down cards without damaging the game'state.

As in, these monsters are checked by the player performing the activation at the time when they would perform it, and then unofficially "proven" to the other player once the card becomes public knowledge.
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SippDeville View Post
Look, there's no reason to get agitated. I asked a question, I wanted a straight answer. The truth is you don't know, and went on your assumptions. If you don't know why it happens and all you can say is you disagree, just say you don't know. Zombie world doesn't say face up monsters become zombie-type, it says "ALL MONSTERS ON THE FIELD AND ANY GRAVEYARD BECOME ZOMBIE-TYPE" so, I would assume, even face down monster ON THE FIELD would be zombie types. Like I said, don't get mad, but don't pretend to know an official ruling if you don't.

Additional Comment:



Thank you, that's a little better of an explanation than the other. As I said, I don't know either way, and just want to know the correct ruling before I play it wrong.
Again! Face-down monsters do not have types, so Zombie World do not affect face-down monsters!

The problem is that for costs that tribute monsters with a specific type, face-down monsters do have types! Reason? BKSS!

Your answer is that you can tribute a face-down Winged Beast monster for Icarus Attack, even with Zombie World on the field!
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Old 11-14-2009, 02:26 AM   #22
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Not to mention that thier are quite a few card effects that mention all monsters on your side of the field.

You can tribute a face-down Winged Beast-type monster for Icarus Attack while D. Tribe is in effect. Your face-down monsters won't be treated as a Dragon-type.

D. Tribes been around for years, if this was an issue it would have ben addressed.

edit: I found this FAQ... http://yugioh-wiki.net/index.php?%A1...EC%C2%B2%A1%D5

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Q:フィールド上で裏側表示のモンスターの種族はどうなりますか?
A:元々の種族のままです。
The question is asking if D. Tribe can see/notice the type of the face-down monster. The answer is, It is still the original type.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Dasher View Post
Not to mention that thier are quite a few card effects that mention all monsters on your side of the field.

You can tribute a face-down Winged Beast-type monster for Icarus Attack while D. Tribe is in effect. Your face-down monsters won't be treated as a Dragon-type.

D. Tribes been around for years, if this was an issue it would have ben addressed.

edit: I found this FAQ... http://yugioh-wiki.net/index.php?%A1...EC%C2%B2%A1%D5



The question is asking if D. Tribe can see/notice the type of the face-down monster. The answer is, It is still the original type.
You mean "Icarus Attack" there!
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:34 AM   #24
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You mean "Icarus Attack" there!
Dasher is briefly explaining the Wiki quote.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:50 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Dasher is briefly explaining the Wiki quote.
Oh! Ok! I thought he was talking about the OP's question there!
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