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Old 08-28-2009, 09:39 PM   #1
Sup3rNo7a
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Default Cards that let you draw

As the title says, these are cards that let you draw.

I tried to be at least a little creative these to try and maintain a balance while still being powerful enough to actually grant the user some kind of advantage when it works, but keeping them generic enough that they could be used by just about anyone and not be completely restricted to certain deck-types.

I also made what I would consider to be "non-ban-worthy" versions of Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity, because I miss them from back-in-the-day.


--Monsters--

Jar of Avarice
*
EARTH
[Rock/Effect]
This card cannot be Special Summoned. You can Tribute this card to Draw 2 cards. You can only activate this effect once per Duel.
ATK: 0 / DEF: 0

---

Blessed Charity
*
LIGHT
[Fairy/Effect]
This card cannot be Special Summoned. You can Tribute this card to Draw 3 cards, then send any 2 cards from your hand to the Graveyard. You can only activate this effect once per Duel.
ATK: 0 / DEF: 0

---

--Spells--

Risk
[Normal Spell]
Declare 1 card type (Monster, Spell, or Trap), and then randomly select 1 card in your opponent's hand. If the selected card is the declared card type, Draw 2 cards. If it is not, Discard 2 cards. (You cannot activate this card if there are not at least 2 other cards in your hand).

---

Reckless Charity
[Normal Spell]
Both players randomly select 1 card in their respective hands and show them. If both cards are the same card type (Monster, Spell, or Trap), Draw 3 cards. If they are not, your opponent Draws 3 cards.

---

Painful Greed
[Normal Spell]
Pay Life Points in increments of 1000 (max. 2000). Draw 1 card for every 1000 Life Points paid. The drawn card(s) cannot be used during the turn you activate this card.

---

Selfish Donation
[Normal Spell]
Your opponent Draws up to 2 cards (min. 1). Gain Life Points equal to the number of cards drawn x1000.

---


Feel free to make suggestions to fix/improve them, or post your own.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicker Ridders View Post
You could have put Sangan on the field, moved it around a few zones and made it dance. If something negates his summon, then like the Men in Black, he was never there.

Last edited by Sup3rNo7a : 08-29-2009 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:05 PM   #2
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The problem with splashable draw is that it can be exploited towards FTKs and OTKs quite easily, especially when combined with non-splashable draw (for example, if you run exclusively Level 8 "Destiny Hero" monsters, you can use "Trade-In", "Destiny Draw", and "Allure of Darkness"). Because Konami's head isn't on all too straight, they've also got enough +1 draws out there that you can easily draw out almost your whole deck by turn 4 or 5 if you needed to. That being said, a lot of these cards which really should be fair... will in fact be kinda broken. Let's see, though:
"Jar of Avarice", is, yep, way broken. You trade your Normal Summon for a +2. It does mean you can only do it once per turn, which is good, and stops a lot of FTKs since they lose their Normal Summon. It's actually a really clever idea, and I admire it quite a bit - well played on your part. But yeah, the inherent power in draw in Yu-gi-oh! means this would hit the list for sure.

"Blessed Charity" has the same problem.
"Risk" is actually a lot better, since you need at least 2 cards to use it (not particularly good as far as topdecks go) and there's no way (at least that I can think of) to cheat it. I think that one might be ok... although not very reliable. Same for "Reckless Charity", really (although that one can more easily be exploited by controlling your opponent's hand, and the draw power is greater, so that might hit the list).

"Painful Greed" would be ran in triples in every FTK deck in the world, and most OTK decks too. That would be the first of these to be banned, and it would be banned hard. The last one, of course, is actually fair, and yet would be useful in mill decks. *shrugs* I like it.

So yeah, the big problem is not you - you did a pretty good job. It's just that draw is too dangerous to do so easily in this game...
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Old 08-29-2009, 06:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HochDeutsch View Post
"Jar of Avarice", is, yep, way broken. You trade your Normal Summon for a +2. It does mean you can only do it once per turn, which is good, and stops a lot of FTKs since they lose their Normal Summon. It's actually a really clever idea, and I admire it quite a bit - well played on your part. But yeah, the inherent power in draw in Yu-gi-oh! means this would hit the list for sure.

"Blessed Charity" has the same problem.
Aww, really? Thanks for the compliment on my cleverness ( ), but I'd hoped I'd managed to restricted them enough to make them viable by making them non-Special Summonable monsters. Losing your Normal Summon for a turn can really hurt, especially if you don't have any other monsters out there since you can't use either one of these as a shield, having to tribute them to get to draw.

I do see a potential issue with easy reusability due to cards like Pot of Avarice or Transmigration Prophecy, though. Would also giving them both a sort of Twin-Headed Behemoth "only usable once per duel" effect help?

Quote:
"Risk" is actually a lot better, since you need at least 2 cards to use it (not particularly good as far as topdecks go) and there's no way (at least that I can think of) to cheat it. I think that one might be ok... although not very reliable.
Thanks. As for the reliability, if there's one thing I've learned about this game is that if it was actually very "reliable", it'd probably be banned... lol

Quote:
Same for "Reckless Charity", really (although that one can more easily be exploited by controlling your opponent's hand, and the draw power is greater, so that might hit the list).
Maybe, but it also can't be used unless both players have at least one other card in their hand, so it can't be topdeck save for the user either. And while it doesn't directly cost the user if it fails, it sure as hell helps the opponent (which indirectly hurts the user).

Quote:
"Painful Greed" would be ran in triples in every FTK deck in the world, and most OTK decks too. That would be the first of these to be banned, and it would be banned hard.
It could just be restricted to 1... <_<;

Would a higher cost help? Maybe discard cards instead, and draw 1 for every card discarded?

Quote:
The last one, of course, is actually fair, and yet would be useful in mill decks. *shrugs* I like it.
I actually really like that one, too. It's kinda counter-productive letting your opponent draw, and probably would only be used in select decks that require milling your opponent or life point gain, but it seemed like an interesting idea.

Quote:
So yeah, the big problem is not you - you did a pretty good job. It's just that draw is too dangerous to do so easily in this game...
Nah, it's me. I'm old school when it comes to Yu-Gi-Oh, and haven't actually played in a couple of years. I just miss the pre- and early banned list days, to be quite honest. And it's not because of what you may think. I never even ran any of those super-powerful OTK, Chaos, or Yata/Restrict decks (though I played against and beat several in my local area...using a Blue-Eyes deck, lol), I just had a lot of fun then, and some of the more lenient drawing and more powerful destructive cards made it easier to play sometimes.

I'm also a little out of touch with everything that's available now (though I've thumbed through a lot of different things). I'm still adjusting to all the new crap out there.

Thanks for you comments.
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Originally Posted by Nicker Ridders View Post
You could have put Sangan on the field, moved it around a few zones and made it dance. If something negates his summon, then like the Men in Black, he was never there.
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Old 08-29-2009, 07:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xgamerkf View Post
Aww, really? Thanks for the compliment on my cleverness ( ), but I'd hoped I'd managed to restricted them enough to make them viable by making them non-Special Summonable monsters. Losing your Normal Summon for a turn can really hurt, especially if you don't have any other monsters out there since you can't use either one of these as a shield, having to tribute them to get to draw.
Nope. I'd trade my Normal Summon for a +2 anyday. Besides, while a Normal Summon for 2 cards might be fair in a regular cases, exploitation for FTKs is another story. Sure I'll leave my field undefended, but if my opponent never gets a turn, that's not really an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xgamerkf View Post
I do see a potential issue with easy reusability due to cards like Pot of Avarice or Transmigration Prophecy, though. Would also giving them both a sort of Twin-Headed Behemoth "only usable once per duel" effect help?
It couldn't hurt, actually. It might actually be workable in that case since it can't be re-exploited like "Disk Commander" or "Pot of Greed" or other draw cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xgamerkf View Post
It could just be restricted to 1... <_<;

Would a higher cost help? Maybe discard cards instead, and draw 1 for every card discarded?
Maybe, although in my own opinion, creating a broken card and "balancing" it by restricting or limiting it is the absolute worst way to design a card. Changing it to a discard would definitely balance it, but it'd also be a lot less successful a "Pot of Greed" balance. Actually, if anyone could ever really balance "Pot", I'd give 'em a medal v_v

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xgamerkf View Post
I actually really like that one, too. It's kinda counter-productive letting your opponent draw, and probably would only be used in select decks that require milling your opponent or life point gain, but it seemed like an interesting idea.
Yeah. One type of mill is to put cards in your opponent's hand for "Morphing Jar" or "Heavy Slump" (using things like "Chainsaw Insect" or "The Bistro Butcher"). But you're card can be used without a "cost" (at least, you need to successfully battle with the other two, which your opponent might be able to prevent), and you also actually gain something in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xgamerkf View Post
Nah, it's me. I'm old school when it comes to Yu-Gi-Oh, and haven't actually played in a couple of years. I just miss the pre- and early banned list days, to be quite honest. And it's not because of what you may think. I never even ran any of those super-powerful OTK, Chaos, or Yata/Restrict decks (though I played against and beat several in my local area...using a Blue-Eyes deck, lol), I just had a lot of fun then, and some of the more lenient drawing and more powerful destructive cards made it easier to play sometimes.

I'm also a little out of touch with everything that's available now (though I've thumbed through a lot of different things). I'm still adjusting to all the new crap out there.

Thanks for you comments.
Hey, I know the feeling. I stopped playing shortly after the Chaos monsters came out, although I returned to the game a while back. I still play the Traditional Format from time to time, though, mainly with old friends, and none of us use those draw-exploiting FTKs (although there are Chaos players...). And really, outside of that kind of exploitation, a lot of draw cards aren't overpowered at all ("Upstart Goblin", for instance). But unfortunately, you gotta look at the big picture, and even if you won't exploit a draw card for FTKs, somebody else will v_v

[ meh ]
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Old 08-29-2009, 07:56 PM   #5
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Edited Jar of Avarice, Blessed Charity and Painful Greed.

What OTK/FTKs are there now, anyway?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicker Ridders View Post
You could have put Sangan on the field, moved it around a few zones and made it dance. If something negates his summon, then like the Men in Black, he was never there.
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xgamerkf View Post
Edited Jar of Avarice, Blessed Charity and Painful Greed.

What OTK/FTKs are there now, anyway?
Not many, because the components usually hit the banlist. But the more splashable draw cards that get created, the more and more OTKs there will be, since players will essentially be able to have fewer cards in their deck:

for example, imagine if I could run a legal five-card deck. I'd win every game automatically, with Exodia. Or less conspicuously, "Gift Card" times three, "Nurse Reficule the Fallen Ones", and "Prohibition".

the problem is, though, the decksize limit is 40, so if my goal is to get those handfuls of cards out, I'll need to thin my deck. Luckily, the game has cards like "Toon Table of Contents", "Upstart Goblin", "Reckless Greed", "Jar of Greed", and "Spirit of Yata-Garasu". But it's not enough. At best, an Advance Format deck (with splashables alone) can get to be about 20 cards (a rough approximation), which is still too unreliable to OTK easily. But if you add your "Painful Greed" and "Jar of Avarice" cards to the mix, along with "Ultimate Offering" or "Double Summon" for the jar, then your deck can really consist of only 8 cards (-6 for each +2), and with just 8 cards, I'm a hell of a lot closer to an OTK than the existing card pool will allow - I'm twice as close, which is a deadly thing. Given that a first hand is really 6 cards, the odds are pretty high that I could make those odds work...

[ it's a matter of preventing what could be, rather than preventing what is. Because that's Konami's job ]
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:15 AM   #7
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is there a list of cards out there that let you draw 3?

i came across a card a while back that gave your opponent some insane amount of life points but let you draw 3 and now i cant find it. anyone know what i'm talking about?
at the time i thought thats crazy why would i want to give my opponent that many life points. and i dismissed it and moved on. but now with my exodia deck build i could use it. and with exodia who cares how many life points you give your opponent!

Last edited by jediknightjason : 02-27-2014 at 01:04 AM.
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