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Old 08-12-2009, 07:52 PM   #1
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Default Call of the Haunted vs PMD Stardust

Assuming Call of the Haunted is coming back (not much of a stretch) I need to confirm possible combos with PMD and Stardust

A) Gyzarius/Celestia hits the field, targeting my COTH. I chain COTH to the PMD/Stardust in my graveyard, and activate their effect, blowing up Gyzarius/Celestia. True or False?

B) Heavy hits the field. I chain my COTH to Stardust, and activate his effect to negate COTH destruction

C) Ditto for PMD, except his effect would stop HIS OWN destruction by COTH. (I've heard before that this option wont work. I dont remember the reason except to remember that I thought it was a load of hair-splitting bull).
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:55 PM   #2
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A) Build the Chain!
LINK 1: Celestia (mill 4, target 2)
LINK 2: COTH
Resolve the Chain!
LINK 2: COTH brings back Stardust.
LINK 1: Celestia destroys 2.

B) Build the Chain! Resolve the Chain!

C) COTH's destruction effect is continuous. Since it is continuous, you cannot chain PMD or Stardust's Effect to it.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
Assuming Call of the Haunted is coming back (not much of a stretch) I need to confirm possible combos with PMD and Stardust

A) Gyzarius/Celestia hits the field, targeting my COTH. I chain COTH to the PMD/Stardust in my graveyard, and activate their effect, blowing up Gyzarius/Celestia. True or False?

B) Heavy hits the field. I chain my COTH to Stardust, and activate his effect to negate COTH destruction

C) Ditto for PMD, except his effect would stop HIS OWN destruction by COTH. (I've heard before that this option wont work. I dont remember the reason except to remember that I thought it was a load of hair-splitting bull).
A - False. Gyzarus/Celestia's effect was already activated.

B - Same as A. False.

C -
Quote:
[Re: Prime Material Dragon] "Prime Material Dragon" can only be used against effects that will destroy monsters at that time. For example, you cannot use "Prime Material Dragon's" effect when "Dark Armed Dragon" is Special Summoned; you can only use it in response to the activation of "Dark Armed Dragon's" effect when it targets a monster. Also, you cannot use "Prime Material Dragon's" effect against cards whose effects will not destroy a monster right away, so you cannot use "Prime Material Dragon" against "Jigen Bakudan", "Ekibyo Drakmord", "Magical Hats", "Steel Scorpion", "Toon Monsters", "Thunder Nyan Nyan", "Gradius' Option", "Summoner of Illusions", "Limiter Removal", "Call of the Haunted", "Premature Burial", or "Arutonomous Action Unit".
There you go.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:06 PM   #4
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1 False. PMD/Stardust has no effect on cards that were activated before he was on the field.

2 Same as above, but additionally, PMD/stardust cannot be activated in the middle of a resolving chain. No new effects can be activated until this chain has resolved. Anyway, by the time these mosnters are summoned by CoTH, no destoying effect is being activated. The effects are resolving already.

3
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"Prime Material Dragon" can only be used against effects that will destroy monsters at that time. For example, you cannot use "Prime Material Dragon's" effect when "Dark Armed Dragon" is Special Summoned; you can only use it in response to the activation of "Dark Armed Dragon's" effect when it targets a monster. Also, you cannot use "Prime Material Dragon's" effect against cards whose effects will not destroy a monster right away, so you cannot use "Prime Material Dragon" against "Jigen Bakudan", "Ekibyo Drakmord", "Magical Hats", "Steel Scorpion", "Toon Monsters", "Thunder Nyan Nyan", "Gradius' Option", "Summoner of Illusions", "Limiter Removal", "Call of the Haunted", "Premature Burial", or "Arutonomous Action Unit".
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:27 PM   #5
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My problem here is that activating COTH IS NOT 'activating in a resolving chain.' Its the next link OF that chain. Its my addition to the chain before the chain starts resolving. If "activating in a resolving chain" was valid, you never be activate PMD or Stardust to ANYTHING as the opponent would just say "well you missed the timing because you were supposed to activate before I said I was going to activate."
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
My problem here is that activating COTH IS NOT 'activating in a resolving chain.' Its the next link OF that chain. Its my addition to the chain before the chain starts resolving. If "activating in a resolving chain" was valid, you never be activate PMD or Stardust to ANYTHING as the opponent would just say "well you missed the timing because you were supposed to activate before I said I was going to activate."
Except that you don't summon anything with COTH until COTH itself resolves.

By that time, you cannot add anything else to the chain.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:28 PM   #7
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"COTH DESTRUCTION is a continuous effect."

Yes, THATS the load of bull I was referring to and now remember. Since the destruction has a distinct activation condition, it is not 'continuous.'
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
"COTH DESTRUCTION is a continuous effect."

Yes, THATS the load of bull I was referring to and now remember. Since the destruction has a distinct activation condition, it is not 'continuous.'
Rulings > You.

Sorry but that's how it works. COTH's destruction effect never activates.

COTH's destruction is a continuous effect.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:31 PM   #9
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Except that you don't summon anything with COTH until COTH itself resolves.

By that time, you cannot add anything else to the chain.
So whats the difference with activating Smashing Ground? That starts a chain that you respond to.
Gyzarius does NOT start to "resolve" until I get a chance to respond with whatever. I can add any link I want to the chain of his effect. So I add COTH, which gets its effect first due to the chain, so PMD is on the field when the chain starts counting down.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
So whats the difference with activating Smashing Ground? That starts a chain that you respond to.
Gyzarius does NOT start to "resolve" until I get a chance to respond with whatever. I can add any link I want to the chain of his effect. So I add COTH, which gets its effect first due to the chain, so PMD is on the field when the chain starts counting down.
While that is correct, it's worded wrongly. COTH will be the first card to resolve. When cards in a chain begin to resolve, you cannot add anything else to that chain.

You resolve COTH's effect and Special Summon PMD. You are still in the middle of a chain resolving and cannot add anything to it. You cannot add PMD's effect to this chain, so the rest of the cards in the chain will resolve first. You would have to activate PMD's effect after the current chain has finished.

I could go into more detail about how your wrong and perhaps mixing things up but I'm in no mood for this. And many people know what I can be like. Someone else will be around to explain it again to you.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:34 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
So whats the difference with activating Smashing Ground? That starts a chain that you respond to.
Gyzarius does NOT start to "resolve" until I get a chance to respond with whatever. I can add any link I want to the chain of his effect. So I add COTH, which gets its effect first due to the chain, so PMD is on the field when the chain starts counting down.
Gyzarus has not started to resolve yet, but COTH has. You cannot add new effects to the chain once the chain has begun to resolve.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
So whats the difference with activating Smashing Ground? That starts a chain that you respond to.
Gyzarius does NOT start to "resolve" until I get a chance to respond with whatever. I can add any link I want to the chain of his effect. So I add COTH, which gets its effect first due to the chain, so PMD is on the field when the chain starts counting down.
Yes, at which point the chain starts resolving.

Chain link 1: Heavy Storm
Chain link 2: Call of the Haunted

Nothing else is added so chain resolves:

Chain link 2: CotH special summons Stardust Dragon
Chain link 1: Heavy storm resolves

Stardust Dragon is not on the field until the chain starts resolving

Besides that there are other flaws in your logic, for example that Stardust Dragon, just like every other negator, has to be chained directly to the activation of the effect, if you chain CotH you cannot chain anything else to negate Heavy Storm.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:36 PM   #13
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Note both PMD ans Stardust negates ACTIVATIONS, not effects.

If the carcard or the effect was activated before they were on the field, they won't do anything, 'cause no effect it's being activating at the time they hit the field:

Chain link 1: Heavy Storm
Chain link 2: Call of the Haunted

Resolve:

Chain link 2: CotH special summons Stardust Dragon (At this point, there are no effects that destroys being activated, they are resolving already).
Chain link 1: Heavy storm resolves.
This chain ends



Note continuous type effect does not "activates". And when CoTH's is going to destroy a monster, since there' no effect being "activated", they can't prevent their own destruction.


EDIT: Slow typing....
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Nicker Ridders View Post
Rulings > You.

Sorry but that's how it works. COTH's destruction effect never activates.

COTH's destruction is a continuous effect.
The problem is the ******d appearance of "activate" meaning whatever konami SAYS it means, regardless of a logical deduction of the situation.

PMD's vulnerability to Snipe Hunter for example. I've seen that vulnerability ignored in matches because its counter-intuitive. Its such a convoluted explanation that neither player remembers the "correct" ruling until the match is over.
Any ruling that does not explain itself is counter-productive.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:41 PM   #15
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The problem is the ******d appearance of "activate" meaning whatever konami SAYS it means, regardless of a logical deduction of the situation.
This game and logic contradits each other all the time.

That for what there are specific rules.
anyway, the main point is, both Stardust and PMD does not negates effects. They negates the ACTIVATION of effects.
If an effect does not activates nor is was activated before they were summoned, they won't do anything.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
The problem is the ******d appearance of "activate" meaning whatever konami SAYS it means, regardless of a logical deduction of the situation.

PMD's vulnerability to Snipe Hunter for example. I've seen that vulnerability ignored in matches because its counter-intuitive. Its such a convoluted explanation that neither player remembers the "correct" ruling until the match is over.
Any ruling that does not explain itself is counter-productive.
I don't see any problem with which effects "activate", every effect that ses the chain does so and that's it.

Snipe Hunter is not guaranteed to destroy a monster, basic game rules state that you cannot chain PMD to Snipe because it may destroy a card and it may not, depending on the dice roll.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Nicker Ridders View Post
I could go into more detail about how your wrong and perhaps mixing things up but I'm in no mood for this. And many people know what I can be like.
We always appreciate friendly advice from calm professionals.
If the Q & A board exacerbates your patience, and you know it, then you shouldnt respond here.

Additional Comment:

"The problem is the ******d appearance"

Whereas I know dont remember what I said with "******d," I know for a fact it was not profanity by any definition, just a multisyllable adjective. How hair-trigger (and english speaking) is the remote robot editing system here?

Last edited by Earth Spirit : 08-12-2009 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:55 PM   #18
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If the Q & A board exacerbates your patience, and you know it, then you shouldnt respond here.
The board doesn't.

Posters do.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:02 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
We always appreciate friendly advice from calm professionals.
If the Q & A board exacerbates your patience, and you know it, then you shouldnt respond here.

Additional Comment:

"The problem is the ******d appearance"

Whereas I know dont remember what I said with "******d," I know for a fact it was not profanity by any definition, just a multisyllable adjective. How hair-trigger (and english speaking) is the remote robot editing system here?
Don't make him angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry. ;D

On topic: If you don't have anything else to ask, several people have posted the correct answers to your questions.
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Old 08-12-2009, 09:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
We always appreciate friendly advice from calm professionals.
If the Q & A board exacerbates your patience, and you know it, then you shouldnt respond here.

Additional Comment:

"The problem is the ******d appearance"

Whereas I know dont remember what I said with "******d," I know for a fact it was not profanity by any definition, just a multisyllable adjective. How hair-trigger (and english speaking) is the remote robot editing system here?
People get frustrated when they give the right explanation and reasoning and the OP still questions it... Remember, this game is filled with contradictions and holes... We have to go by what Konami says mind you... And the right answer/explanation has already been given...

Perhaps you put in a curse word mixed in with that d... If the filter finds it then it will be censored out...

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The board doesn't.

Posters do.
Here here...
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Spirit View Post
Assuming Call of the Haunted is coming back (not much of a stretch) I need to confirm possible combos with PMD and Stardust

A) Gyzarius/Celestia hits the field, targeting my COTH. I chain COTH to the PMD/Stardust in my graveyard, and activate their effect, blowing up Gyzarius/Celestia. True or False?

B) Heavy hits the field. I chain my COTH to Stardust, and activate his effect to negate COTH destruction

C) Ditto for PMD, except his effect would stop HIS OWN destruction by COTH. (I've heard before that this option wont work. I dont remember the reason except to remember that I thought it was a load of hair-splitting bull).
Yes all of the chain link stuff is correct about the timing of the chain 2 call of the haunted. since it was activate before stardust/PMD was on the field-- assuming that there is a graveyard for PMD --, but it works.

Okay. U try 2 destroy my backrow right i chain stardust/PMD cool i can't negate the destruction of the coth but once call leaves the field it trys 2 destroy a monter that it is attach 2, its secondary effect that can be negated.

Same goes with heavy storming vs future fusion star/PMD can save the monster and the attached card will die.

Last edited by IGo4Brok3 : 02-18-2010 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:40 PM   #22
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Yes all of the chain link stuff is correct about the timing of the chain 2 call of the haunted. since it was activate before stardust/PMD was on the field-- assuming that there is a graveyard for PMD --, but it works.

Okay. U try 2 destroy my backrow right i chain stardust/PMD cool i can't negate the destruction of the coth but once call leaves the field it trys 2 destroy a monter that it is attach 2, its secondary effect that can be negated.

Same goes with heavy storming vs future fusion star/PMD can save the monster and the attached card will die.
You revived a dead thread which was correctly answered, and then you gave the wrong answers.

Please avoid reviving threads in the future, and also check all previous posts before posting and don't answer unless you verify your answers are correct.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:09 PM   #23
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I was kinda diggin this thread (not even noticing the date)....... til I got to the last 2 posts......

WTF indeed.
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