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Old 10-13-2007, 03:00 AM   #1
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Default Best and Worst Planeswalker

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Ajani Goldmane is the worst Planeswalker in Lorwyn simply because his third activated ability can create a customized Serra Avatar that which you can potentially get off by Turn 6 and your Opponent will most likely kill him before you get off his third activated ability.

He's pretty much a bullseye target in group games IMO.

Jace Beleren is probably one of my favorite Planeswalkers in Lorwyn but Chandra still beats him by a knockout. The card advantage I believe is what makes Jace really good especially the Howling Mine effect for the first ability which can help you make friends in group games.

The best part about Jace IMO is milling the top 20 of your Opponent's Library which If you have good enough stall like in a Blue/White Control deck it shouldn't be too hard to get off If you're lucky especially If you use Jace's first ability 3 to 4 times in a row.

The green Planeswalker Garruk seems alright, Elves don't need him that bad and he seems best suited in a tribal Beast deck. Lilana Vess seems pretty solid, but Chandra seems good as well IMO.

What do you guys think?
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Old 10-13-2007, 03:07 AM   #2
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All the planeswalkers suck in my opinion. However, I'll rate them just for to spark discussion.

5 - Liliana Vess (I don't like paying 4 for Diabolic Tutor. Why would I pay 5 for a strictly worse Vampiric Tutor or a really bad discard spell?)
4 - Ajani Goldmane (Not enough bang for your buck)
3 - Chandra Nalaar (At worst he's an expensive creature removal spell)
2 - Jace Beleren (He replaces himself, I guess...)
1 - Garruk Windspeaker (At worst he's a 3/3 for 4, which isn't amazing but also not terrible)
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Old 10-13-2007, 09:21 AM   #3
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Aburame, I think you're kind of underestimating some of them, especially garruk. Garruk can give tons of advantage, you make a beast, hopefully said beast can block or do something productive to protect you. Even if they do get past your beast and kill garruk he still ate some damage for you.
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:43 AM   #4
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Yeah one thing I like about the Planeswalkers is that If your Opponent plays something that deals direct damage to you, I'm assuming you can have it be dealt to your Planeswalker instead thus saving you for a few turns.

But according to the Planeswalker rules, the attacker who plays the burn spell or something that deals direct damage to target opponent has priority first whether or not they'll deal damage to your Planeswalker or direct to you.

I think If you abuse the Planeswalkers right by finding ways to get buttloads of Loyalty counters on them they'll probably be better. Clockspinning attached to Isochron Scepter seems to be a good choice for doing such a thing.
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justmcnew View Post
Yeah one thing I like about the Planeswalkers is that If your Opponent plays something that deals direct damage to you, I'm assuming you can have it be dealt to your Planeswalker instead thus saving you for a few turns.

But according to the Planeswalker rules, the attacker who plays the burn spell or something that deals direct damage to target opponent has priority first whether or not they'll deal damage to your Planeswalker or direct to you.

I think If you abuse the Planeswalkers right by finding ways to get buttloads of Loyalty counters on them they'll probably be better. Clockspinning attached to Isochron Scepter seems to be a good choice for doing such a thing.
No, the Planeswalker cannot take damage for you. It can take damage INSTEAD of you, but ultimatley if your opponent wants to- you're being attacked or targetted.

Chances are, if you're playing Blue and an Isochron Scepter, you'd find better things to use instead of Clockspinning, especially in Extended or Legacy. Casual yes, but who does that these days?

I think the only GOOD one is Chandra and maybe Jace given certain times. Chandra is the best imply because Red has the best acceleration in Type2 and can clear the field in 3 turns. Jace is good too, but only for advantage. The Mill effect just isn't as useful. Garruuk is decent, but Green has much more useful forms of acceleration. Ajani is just balanced- nothing special.

The worst is Ilianna. Period. She looks fun, but she's not.
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Old 10-13-2007, 12:58 PM   #6
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My favorite is Chandra. If I ever get a hold of her, I may build a mono-red burn deck with her in it. She is definitely the best one out of the 5. Out of the others, I think the worst is probably Liliana. She may look great but there are better cards than her to play. Jace isn't that bad, but you need a deck built around him. Ajani is good, life gain, plus a glorious anthem effect. I can see Ajani in some sort of Life Gain deck, to be out those big tokens. Garruk will have to be my second favorite. This card can be a beast. So the order is:

1.) Chandra Nalaar
2.) Garruk Wildspeaker
3.) Ajani Goldmane
4.) Jace Beleren
5.) Liliana Vess
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Old 10-13-2007, 02:14 PM   #7
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I don't judge a Planeswalker by its last ability, since it really seems designed for the Timmy player.

Garruk Wildspeaker
He untaps two lands the turn he comes into play, which is great tempo. On top of that, you can bring in 3/3 beats. In limited, that is something that you can't easily deal with. For Constructed, he's a recurring Call of the Herd for one more mana and essentially costs only two mana. Turn one Forest, Elves/Bop. Turn two repeat. Turn three Garruk, at least three mana sources available after that. AND a 3/3 beater.

Chandra Nalaar
Seriously, it comes in and either pings for one or kills off a threat. How can that NOT be good? Well, she costs five. In draft and sealed, Chandra is a bomb in all sorts of ways. It's like a Volcano Hellion that actually won't kill you off. For constructed, let's talk about 'no'.

Ajani Goldmane
Gaining 2 life is mediocre, but in limited formats every bit of life counts in the late game. On top of that, Ajani's -1 ability really stands out, sort of like a Fortiy that you actually see coming but can't do anything about. In short, this won't even see play in White Weenie because of its steep cost (better left off for a beater like Calciderm or Celestial Crusader, IF WW decides to do the four-curve like it did in Time Spiral block).

Liliana Vess
Vess can Vampiric Tutor for your draft bomb. Go ahead, do it. Oh, and you discard a card. OOH. Well, actually she costs five. Pick her high in draft, but not for constructed.

Jace Beleren
Jace is one of the best Planeswalkers because of his first two abilities. Ignore the third (same rule for all other Planeswalker cards) because it's designed solely for Timmy players. You don't want to mill them for 20, you want to draw more cards for yourself. Got it? Good.

So! In order from best to worst:

1. Garruk Wildspeaker
2. Jace Beleren
3. Chandra Nalaar
4. Liliana Vess
5. Ajani Goldmane
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Old 10-13-2007, 09:22 PM   #8
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Actually, Garruk's last ability is pretty relevent for MGA because it is an overrun that can be played the turn after he is played.
My List
1) Garruk- Another good CA engine for green, the only reason why he may not see play would be the other CA cards like Call of the Herd, Harmonize, and Masked Admirers.
2)Jace- He gives you 3 card for every 1 your opponent gets, owning this guy is the differance between winning and losing in Control vs. Control Matches.
3)Ajandi Goldmane- Only because of decks like turbofog and Martyr needed a finisher. For 4 mana you just need to stall for a couple of turns (something these decks are experts at.) and pump out those Avatar Tokens.
4)Liessa Vess- Doubtfull to see play since black has soo many better options.
5)Chandra Naar- 5 mana and all it does is burn? Good burn is traditionally cheap and this is not exempted from that rule and therefore will not see competative play.
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Old 10-13-2007, 09:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen View Post
Aburame, I think you're kind of underestimating some of them, especially garruk. Garruk can give tons of advantage, you make a beast, hopefully said beast can block or do something productive to protect you. Even if they do get past your beast and kill garruk he still ate some damage for you.
All of the Planeswalkers give advantage except the White one, which just sits there and gives you life. That's kinda the reason they were made (besides the fact that Tarmogoyf was getting confused).

You also mentioned that the Planeswalkers eat damage for you, but that's not all that impressive in the full scheme of things. You know what else can eat up damage for you if attackers get past your board?

Fog.

That's all I see when I look at the Planewalkers. They're just really expensive Fog effects with 1-for-1 advantage built into them. The red and green ones are Fogs that kill creature(s), the blue one Cantrips, and the black one discards. The only exception is Goldmane, which doesn't do anything but suck.

If you want to prove me wrong, go ahead. But my mind is pretty much set on this.
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:52 PM   #10
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The only good (by which I mean Constructed-playable) Planeswalker is Garruk, followed by Jace in the SB of control decks for control-on-control matchups. Garruk is probably by far the best. (Like he/she said, if you're even looking at their third abilities, you're totally missing the point.)

It'd be pointless for me to post anything on top of what mynameiscloud said a few posts above, because they nailed it.
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:17 PM   #11
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I personally think that Ajani & Jace are the best of the 5. Ajani is one I would use in my G/W Life-Gainer deck. Jace is just begging for a Dimir Miller deck and he looks cool too. Garruk just disappointed me, he really has no place in any of my decks. Chandra is just a slow burner who could turn into a one-hit-wonder-win. Put enough counters on her and then just give her up. Lilliana's last ability is probably the only reason I'd use her.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:27 PM   #12
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Avatar tokens being made by Ajani can potentially make you the biggest threat in a group game. I learned that the hard way when someone dealt 4-6 damage to my Ajani instead of myself.
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Old 10-14-2007, 11:09 PM   #13
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Ah, but if you're able to get Ajani's Avatar up high enough you need to plan out all possibilities: like someone nuking him, massive damage to you and not him, or just lay low. I don't just rely on Ajani himself I just lay low for a while. Gain a little here and there with his effect, but I also use Loxo Hammers to get my life up there. Then when he has just enough counters to spit out the avatar and stay out at the same time, I do it. I have honestly gotten into the millions with my life using this G/W deck.
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Old 10-14-2007, 11:28 PM   #14
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Oblivion Ring.

Kills Planeswalkers, and essentially makes Ajani utterly USELESS.
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Old 10-15-2007, 03:06 AM   #15
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i dont know if most the plainswalkers are good enough to be played in t2.
but i can see them scarying people. you drop a gurrek and your opp. might freak and try killing them while you build up for a finsh.

but i cant see most of them being much better then sb cards.
i think the red one works well in the sb against control. but theres always better options.

its all a matter of the player.
they got more hype then they were worth in my opinon.
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Old 10-15-2007, 11:08 AM   #16
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they got more hype then they were worth in my opinon.
Yea I'll agree with you on that. WOTC & MTG did over-hype their release. & when they came out players were like "Oookayyy, now what?"

At least that's what happened when I was at a local draft.

I still like Ajani & Jace though.
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Old 10-15-2007, 09:04 PM   #17
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Ajani Goldmane is my favorite and it's in my new White weenie deck. Reason being is people are missing something about him. Notice on his second ability that only the Vigilance ends at the end of turn. The counters stay. There's a period after that ability. Two different effects. Anti-pyroclasm tech seems good with all the aggro decks that are going to be out.

Next up I have to give it to Green one. He's basically paying for himself when he comes in and making himself cost 2. Then he beefs up your mana to 6 next turn. Having 3/3's running around is gravy. At worst he'll beat the parity.
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Old 10-15-2007, 11:23 PM   #18
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I see Jace as more of a Howling Mine for everyone while he gains more loyalty counters then incase you try to peel 20 off of someone's deck there's that potential someone is gonna counter that activated ability like with Stifle or Azorius Guildmage.

Garruk Wildspeaker is no holds barred the best Planeswalker in Lorwyn next to Jace cause he doesn't scare people as much as Ajani does, and that he can build up for an Aggro kill unless your Opponent can find a way to stop him on time.

It sometimes annoys me why people especially those who play Red with Lightning Bolts, Shocks, and other means of burn spells are so hesitant to kill Planeswalkers just cause they're afraid they're gonna get killed by that Planeswalker.
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:04 PM   #19
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I bought a fat pack and a booster box and only got 1 lilian planeswalker.....and that it.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:25 PM   #20
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I bought a fat pack and a booster box and only got 1 lilian planeswalker.....and that it.
ive opened 20+ boosters and havn't opened 1 planeswalker. there are only 5 in a 300+ card set. dont expect to get one in every other pack
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:04 PM   #21
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I find it interesting no one has mentioned the idea of combining Rings of Brightearth. Doing so allows the Garruk to give you multiple 3/3s for every 2 mana you spend, Jace can draw you two/three/four, or mill 40/60/80, Liliana can tutor for your entire combo or anything else you need, or discard everything your opponents has, Chandra burns for 20/30/40, and Ajani, combined with Martye, is going to give you a few really big beatsticks your opponent will probobly have trouble dealing with.


Honestly as said above these are really meant for the Timmy players but I think few might find some places somewhere in the in constructed, and who knows we might get a few more planeswalkers as the block goes on.
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:40 AM   #22
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I find it interesting no one has mentioned the idea of combining Rings of Brightearth.
Nope.

Rings of Brighthearth is a TRIGGERED ability. You can only pay it ONCE.

See Mirari for a older example of why this doesn't work.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:14 AM   #23
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Nope.

Rings of Brighthearth is a TRIGGERED ability. You can only pay it ONCE.

See Mirari for a older example of why this doesn't work.


Even using it once you can still get 2 3/3s for 2 mana, call requires 7 for accomplish the same feat. Deal 20 damage for 2, mill 40 cards, discard 2 etc etc. Even only replicating it once it's still a pretty solid combo.
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:29 PM   #24
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every planeswalker's ability can be used twice in one turn right? one for every main phase...?
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowZ View Post
ive opened 20+ boosters and havn't opened 1 planeswalker. there are only 5 in a 300+ card set. dont expect to get one in every other pack
I was lucky enough to pull Jace out of a Tournament Pack when I was in a Sealed Tournament for Lorwyn.

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every planeswalker's ability can be used twice in one turn right? one for every main phase...?
I suppose it's possible, but their activated abilities can only be played as If it were a Sorcery so you wouldn't be able to use it on your Opponent's Main Phase 1 or 2.
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