Most Excellent Banlist.

[UberNoob3r_Iamnotray]

I. Forbidden Cards

You cannot use these cards in your Deck or Side Deck:

BLACK LUSTER SOLDIER - ENVOY OF THE BEGINNING
BREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIOR
BUTTERFLY DAGGER - ELMA
CHANGE OF HEART
CHAOS EMPEROR DRAGON - ENVOY OF THE END
CHAOS SORCERER
CYBER JAR
CYBER-STEIN
DARK HOLE
DELINQUENT DUO
EXCHANGE OF THE SPIRIT
FIBER JAR
GRACEFUL CHARITY
HARPIE'S FEATHER DUSTER
IMPERIAL ORDER
LAST TURN
LAST WILL
MAGICAL SCIENTIST
MAGICIAN OF FAITH
MAKYURA THE DESTRUCTOR
MIRAGE OF NIGHTMARE
MONSTER REBORN
PAINFUL CHOICE
POT OF GREED
RAIGEKI
SINISTER SERPENT
THE FORCEFUL SENTRY
Tsukiyomi
Thousand eyes restrict
VICTORY DRAGON
WITCH OF THE BLACK FOREST
YATA-GARASU
Chimerovertech dragon
CyberTwin Dragon
Ring Of Destruction
Snatch steal
Morphing Jar
NOBLEMAN OF CROSSOUT

NEW! - Chimeratech dragon,Ring Of Destruction,Snatch steal,Morphing Jar,Cyber Twin Dragon,MegaMorph,NOBLEMAN OF CROSSOUT


II. Limited Cards

You can ONLY use one of the following cards in the Deck & Side Deck combined:

CALL OF THE HAUNTED
CARD DESTRUCTION
CEASEFIRE
CHAIN STRIKE
CONFISCATION
CRUSH CARD VIRUS
DARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOS
DIMENSION FUSIOn
ELEMENTAL HERO STRATOS
EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE
GIANT TRUNADE
JINZO
LEFT ARM OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE
LEFT LEG OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE
LEVEL LIMIT - AREA B
LIMITER REMOVAL
MAGE POWER
MAGIC CYLINDER
MIRROR FORCE
NEO-SPACIAN GRAND MOLE
NIGHT ASSAILANT
PREMATURE BURIAL
POT OF AVARICE
PROTECTOR OF THE SANCTUARY
RIGHT ARM OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE
RIGHT LEG OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE
RING OF DESTRUCTION
SANGAN
SWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHT
TREEBORN FROG
TWIN-HEADED BEHEMOTH
ULTIMATE OFFERING
UNITED WE STAND
Magical Excavation
Tribe infecting Virus
NEW! - Tribe Infecting Virus,


III. Semi-Limited Cards

You can ONLY use two of the following cards in the Deck & Side Deck combined:

DECK DEVASTATION VIRUS
MANTICORE OF DARKNESS
RECKLESS GREED
Heavy Storm

NEW! - , Heavy Storm,

NEW! - The following cards are no longer Limited:
Time Seal
Mind Crush
Metamorphisis
Apprentice Magician
Good Goblin House Keeping
MST
Spirit Reaper
Wall Of Revealing Light
Mask Of Darkness
Overload
Future Fusion
Book of moon
Gravity Bind
Scape Goat
D.d Warrior Lady
D.d assailant
Torrential Tribute
CREATURE SWAP
REINFORCEMENT OF THE ARMY

Love,Hate,Input?

[Louielouie]

Semi Restricting Heavy Storm is not a good idea. Un restricting DD Warior Lady and Mystical Space typhoon is also not a good idea.

This whole list not good in my opinion

[Jaggededge11]

Tribe should not be allowed back due to it's massive abuse. Though it is not as veritile as Sniper Hunter, it has a 100% success rate which makes it even deadlier.

Thousand Eyes shouldn't come back either. Once it does, everybody will be running an Instant Fusion in their deck. This will cause an automatic monster destruction in addition to tribute fodder.

Magician of Faith of this list is too powerful. Not only will you get the Infinate cycle with POA and Faith but Card Troopers will increase this abuse even further.

Pot of Averice is too powerful to have at 2, Merchant/Trooper mill will be the hottest deck around. In addition, people will be knocking TER back to the fusion deck to abuse Meta once again.

Your list has pretty much turned duels of 5 minutes or less in duels of 15 minutes or more.

[Masterofredeyes]

First thing I'll say is ignore the two idiots above me as they don't have a damn clue about what the game needs.


Second thing over all you did a very good job but I do have a few problems.


TER+Instant Fusion I will grant is a little to strong. Further more TER is more healthier for the Metagame than Instant Fusion. To this end my suggested fix is to ban Instant Fusion and honestly from there you could unrestrict TER.

My next comment is simply...where is Tsukuyomi? I might just be missing her but I don't see here anywhere on your list.

Next is MOF with Snatch Steal gone there really isn't a reason to leave her at anything less that 3. She is strong but really the best thing she could get back would be Heavy Storm and honestly with all the chainables you unrestricted that wouldn't be a problem. The other thing is Metamorphisis but that can easily be handled especially with all the creature hate we have.

Another thing is the existance of Treeborn Frog. It is an infinate cycle that make tributes irrelevant. It should follow the predicessor on the ban list.


Honestly other than that I would say you have done a rather good job. Congrats.

[Lart Fujiwara]

Originally Posted by Masterofredeyes

To this end my suggested fix is to ban Instant Fusion and honestly from there you could unrestrict TER.

He put Metamorphosis and Scapegoat in 3's at the same time.


-- Lart Fujiwara.

[Isakane]

Yeah I think, sadly, that TER should stay gone so should Tsuki as well.

[UberNoob3r_Iamnotray]

I completely forgot abotu instant fusion, and your right 100% TER is more healthier for the game than Instant.

I think ill ban treeborn not so much becuase it make monarch abuseable, but mroe so it makes gettign out TER ridicuosly easy.

MOF can go to 3.

And tsuki is banned i just forgot to put her back there.

[Jaggededge11]

Master of Red-Eyes, I don't think you know what's good for the Metagame.I personally have been playing ever since the beginning and I have seen every Meta. I know a thing or 2 about what works and what doesn't, it's noobs like you who think they know everything and want garbage like Trib, BLS, and TT at 3.

MoF at 3 is just stupid, first off you created the ideal list for MTP with unlisting of POA. MoF at 3 will just increase it's power 10 fold.

TER and Meta at 3 just created another era of TEC, that's the smartest thing I've heard all year [/Sarcasm]

Not only have you created way longer games, you also turned our deveristy of decklists to next to nill. MPT and TEC will be the only choices.

Thanks for ruining Yu-Gi-Oh, please hang up and never try again.

[Masterofredeyes]

Originally Posted by Lart Fujiwara

He put Metamorphosis and Scapegoat in 3's at the same time.


-- Lart Fujiwara.

And that is completely irrelevant. Scapegoat and Morph do make TER abusable true but with 3 Torrential+Time Seal+MOF+Goats+BOM etc etc there is plenty to shut him down. Without Tsukuyomi TER becomes a valid and balanced control option and nothing more.

Originally Posted by UberNoob3r_Iamnotray

I think ill ban treeborn not so much becuase it make monarch abuseable, but mroe so it makes gettign out TER ridicuosly easy.

Lol that was actually something I didn't think about to be honest I was a little more concerned with Monarchs.

Originally Posted by Jaggededge11

Master of Red-Eyes, I don't think you know what's good for the Metagame.I personally have been playing ever since the beginning and I have seen every Meta. I know a thing or 2 about what works and what doesn't, it's noobs like you who think they know everything and want garbage like Trib, BLS, and TT at 3.

You know I could have swore I never said anything about BLS and I also never said anything about TIV. Thanks for showing a clear lack of ability to read.

BTW if you have been playing since the beginning of YGO you definatly have not improved since then.

Originally Posted by Jaggededge11

MoF at 3 is just stupid, first off you created the ideal list for MTP with unlisting of POA. MoF at 3 will just increase it's power 10 fold.

If you remember MPT it ran off of Chaos Sorcerer as it's kill switch. The best they could hope for now would be the Scourge cards but then again that would only be pointless as one would be left open for removal before it did much and the other would make any advantage the deck built up irrelevant. Thanks for further displaying an ignorance of how decks you claim to be threats run. FAIL.

Originally Posted by Jaggededge11

TER and Meta at 3 just created another era of TEC, that's the smartest thing I've heard all year [/Sarcasm]

Yes your absolutly right we should just continue to stay on her 2-3+ year run of smash first smash a little more and when everything is dead smash it's remains.[/sarcasm]

Originally Posted by Jaggededge11

Not only have you created way longer games, you also turned our deveristy of decklists to next to nill. MPT and TEC will be the only choices.

So tell me what kind of variety are you talking about so far the only decks I see are...


Aggro #1
Aggro #2
Aggro #3
Aggro #4
Aggro #5


They are all the same kinds of deck just using different names. It doesn't matter if you call it Perfect Circle, Gadgets, DDT, Big City, etc. It's all the exact same destroy summon attack cycle we have been locked in for the past 2-3 years now. Aggro is aggro no matter what fancy title you want to give it and it's idiots like you who are fooled by those fancy titles.

Originally Posted by Jaggededge11

Thanks for ruining Yu-Gi-Oh, please hang up and never try again.

Thanks for proving my point that you have no clue about what this game needs. You understand NOTHING about what is healthy and are to damn blind to realize that just because they have different names all the decks are the same damn thing.

I'll put it this way if your deck can't survive a format with 3x Goats, 3x Morph, and 3x Torrential than you deck flat out SUCKS.

[UberNoob3r_Iamnotray]

I've played this game since MRD and imo the format wich the best duselist won 70=80% of the time had to have been goat control, becuase it was slow tempo and bad players couldnt win by trying to swarm the field and out aggroing the opponet before they could get a deffense like they can now.


Every Main stream deck this format bear monarchs are Aggro decks that can sack with the right hand and upset the better player easily. For example

T.dek
Perfect Circle
Machine
Demise

And imo the only skill base matchup this format is monarch vs monarch. Becuase you have to time your power cards. The toher matchups any of the former decks can sack another player becuase of the lack of good deffense cards like book, scape goats, and multiple copies of mass removal.

I've also made the following changes to the list.

3 Stratos
3 Mind Crush
2 Mirror Force

[VampireGod]

careful.. 3 stratos will send the whiny n00bs into fits, because they don't have the skill to actually COUNTER anything.


On that note, I'm hesitant about a few things, but not many. I don't mind a bit of control, but bringing back both TER and TIV, cards which pretty much break any meta, is a bad idea. TIV especially, because it'll be used for mainly 1 reason-monsters who require graveyard presence to be effective, such as D-hero malicious. That one card, believe it or not, will end up making destiny hero variants pretty much competely unbeatable. As it is, they're already difficult, since either DDraw or Malicious needs to hit 1 on the next list, as well as Trooper.


As for TER.. sorry, I don't buy the "most skilled format" arguments, since those arguments generally come from people who've done NOTHING since the format ended. They haven't won nats, they've rarely if ever T8'd Shonens, and all they do is whine because they're not good enough to adapt. I played in the choat control era, from beginning to end, and there was nothing "skillful" about stall with TER until you draw BLS and autowin by default. Nada. As it is, Instant Fusion can, I believe, be used with other monsters that might be healthier for the meta than a resurgance of choat control.

I don't like the Broken Family of DD Monsters completely unrestricted. RFG has more than enough support, and the DD Family are broken in most ways, but especially in the way they stop COMPETITIVE themes from being competitive. They'd slaughter crystal beasts, which have potential (when played by someone who's good) to be a good deck. They stop zombies, which are going to become Teir 1 when Il Blud and Zombie Master hit the TCG. The ONLY card that can even come remotely close to stopping them from being broken is CCV, which, while it's skilled control, scrubby n00bs already whine about because they can't overcome a little disadvantage to win.


Return LLAB to 3's and I'm good with MST at 3, it's not so great that it needs to be limited anyway.

[turkeyspit]

What I find amusing is that Breaker the Magical Warrior is still on the ban list...because here on Pojo, Breaker is considered to be more 'broken' then 3x Stratos. rofl. Too much.

[VampireGod]

Well, this guy's from Team GG, and they seem to be pretty intelligent and generally good players. Not like 99% of pojo.

[turkeyspit]

Originally Posted by VampireGod

Well, this guy's from Team GG, and they seem to be pretty intelligent and generally good players. Not like 99% of pojo.

LOL...i've personally witnessed the best players in the world show an ignorance of basic game mechanics, and a complete lack of knowledge on things like Priority.

Being a Yu-Gi-Oh! champion doesn't mean you know any more about this game then anyone else.

I honestly wish Pojo would just shut down this section of the forum. The stupidity factor of this site would be cut in half =/

[T-Drag]

I'm skeptical as to whether any meta can handle 3x Stratos. With 3x Stratos, a duelist simply cannot build an aggressive deck without being forced to max out on copies of Stratos. He's better than Breaker, and is simply one of the best monsters ever created.

Otherwise, this list is actually decent, although the Limited section could use a few revisions (PotS, for one).

[MarlinBirdChaosBrady]

Originally Posted by UberNoob3r_Iamnotray

I. Forbidden Cards

You cannot use these cards in your Deck or Side Deck:

BLACK LUSTER SOLDIER - ENVOY OF THE BEGINNING
BREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIOR
BUTTERFLY DAGGER - ELMA
CHANGE OF HEART
CHAOS EMPEROR DRAGON - ENVOY OF THE END
CHAOS SORCERER
CYBER JAR
CYBER-STEIN
DARK HOLE
DELINQUENT DUO
EXCHANGE OF THE SPIRIT
FIBER JAR
GRACEFUL CHARITY
HARPIE'S FEATHER DUSTER
IMPERIAL ORDER
LAST TURN
LAST WILL
MAGICAL SCIENTIST
MAKYURA THE DESTRUCTOR
MIRAGE OF NIGHTMARE
MONSTER REBORN
PAINFUL CHOICE
POT OF GREED
RAIGEKI
SINISTER SERPENT
THE FORCEFUL SENTRY
Tsukiyomi
VICTORY DRAGON
WITCH OF THE BLACK FOREST
YATA-GARASU
Chimerovertech dragon
CyberTwin Dragon
Ring Of Destruction
Snatch steal
Morphing Jar
Treeborn Frog
Instant Fusion

NEW! - Chimeratech dragon,Ring Of Destruction,Snatch steal,Morphing Jar,Cyber Twin Dragon,MegaMorph,Treeborn Frog,Instant Fusion


II. Limited Cards

You can ONLY use one of the following cards in the Deck & Side Deck combined:

CALL OF THE HAUNTED
CARD DESTRUCTION
CEASEFIRE
CHAIN STRIKE
CONFISCATION
CRUSH CARD VIRUS
DARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOS
DIMENSION FUSIOn
EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE
GIANT TRUNADE
JINZO
LEFT ARM OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE
LEFT LEG OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE
LEVEL LIMIT - AREA B
LIMITER REMOVAL
MAGE POWER
MAGIC CYLINDER
NEO-SPACIAN GRAND MOLE
NIGHT ASSAILANT
NOBLEMAN OF CROSSOUT
PREMATURE BURIAL
PROTECTOR OF THE SANCTUARY
RIGHT ARM OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE
RIGHT LEG OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE
RING OF DESTRUCTION
SANGAN
SWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHT
TREEBORN FROG
TWIN-HEADED BEHEMOTH
ULTIMATE OFFERING
UNITED WE STAND
Magical Excavation
Tribe infecting Virus
THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT
NEW! - Tribe Infecting Virus,Thousand Eyes Restricrt


III. Semi-Limited Cards

You can ONLY use two of the following cards in the Deck & Side Deck combined:

CREATURE SWAP
DECK DEVASTATION VIRUS
MANTICORE OF DARKNESS
RECKLESS GREED
REINFORCEMENT OF THE ARMY
Heavy Storm
POT OF AVARICE
Mirror Force

NEW! - , Heavy Storm,POT OF AVARICE,Mirror Froce

NEW! - The following cards are no longer Limited:
Time Seal
Mof
Stratos
Mind Crush
Metamorphisis
Apprentice Magician
Good Goblin House Keeping
MST
Spirit Reaper
Wall Of Revealing Light
Mask Of Darkness
Overload
Future Fusion
Book of moon
Gravity Bind
Scape Goat
D.d Warrior Lady
D.d assailant
Torrential Tribute
Love,Hate,Input?

The good:

Unlimiting of: Book, DDWL, DDA, Overload, FF, Mask, Reaper, Wall, Time Seal, Apprentice, Good Goblin, Mind Crush

Semi of: None

Limiting of: Tribe

Forbidding of: All but Instant Fusion

The bad:

Unlimiting of: Torrential, Mst, Stratos, Faith

Semi of: All Semi's.

Limiting of: TER

Forbidding of: Insant Fusion

Not Unlimiting: Swap, Reinforcement

Not Limiting: Manticore

Not Banning: Confiscation, Crossout

I believe in curving aggression, but not to the point where a player cannot play a creature unless it's a floater.

Pot is too generic and the only reason that it's not near PoG in it's brokeness because it just takes a bit of set up. With 3 Trooper in every deck it won't end. Plus with 3 Faith, this game becomes a race. Which is what we never want.

TER IMO wouldn't be healthy for the game. I believe games need to slow down their tempo but not to the point where it's draw/end each turn for 8 turns. Attacking always needs to happen at points, not where we just gather our power cards and then rush.

3 Stratos? Does that need a real explanation lol?

Everything else is fine, it's just some things are a bit extreme is all. We want a better metagame, but not one where it can't grow.

[VampireGod]

Originally Posted by turkeyspit

LOL...i've personally witnessed the best players in the world show an ignorance of basic game mechanics, and a complete lack of knowledge on things like Priority.

Being a Yu-Gi-Oh! champion doesn't mean you know any more about this game then anyone else.

I honestly wish Pojo would just shut down this section of the forum. The stupidity factor of this site would be cut in half =/

Nahh, this section of the board's fun. You can generally tell the difference between good players and g.keeper.

[T-Drag]

Originally Posted by VampireGod

TIV especially, because it'll be used for mainly 1 reason-monsters who require graveyard presence to be effective, such as D-hero malicious. That one card, believe it or not, will end up making destiny hero variants pretty much competely unbeatable. As it is, they're already difficult, since either DDraw or Malicious needs to hit 1 on the next list, as well as Trooper.

Lol.

Why on earth would they need TIV, when they have 2-3 Snipe? TIV would make a difference, but not enough to break the game. Face it, TIV is on the list because UDE just didn't like it, and because it wiped out noobs who overextended with like four Zombies or Beast-Warriors at a time.

Malicious at 1 is one of the dumbest adjustments that could be made: a 6-star 800/800 monster that fails if more than one copy ends up in your hand. You might as well limit Peten the Dark Clown. What's the point? The meta has really sunk to a low point if we're talking about Limiting Malicious. Why don't we just Limit every successful, versatile card in the game, all in the pursuit of "diversity" and "themes."

Rather than touch Trooper, we should outright ban both Limiter and Duplication, and proceed from there. Bringing back some chainable defenses might help, too.

I've said it 340293407 times but I'll say it again: we should be bringing cards off the list to combat problems in the metagame. Putting cards on the list isn't the only way to address problems, after all. I mean, how much better would the Brain/Snatch/Trooper infested meta be if we had 3x Book and 3x Goats, and no Snatch/Ring/Dupe/Limter?

Originally Posted by VampireGod

I played in the choat control era, from beginning to end, and there was nothing "skillful" about stall with TER until you draw BLS and autowin by default. Nada. As it is, Instant Fusion can, I believe, be used with other monsters that might be healthier for the meta than a resurgance of choat control.

What on earth can Instant Fusion do without TER?

BLS is not legal and the players on here who wish for TER, in addition to more Goats and Books, are not at all arguing for BLS's return. The good elements of the Goat format (Goats, Books, TER, Morph) can be preserved, while the bad elements (Tsuku, BLS, Serpent, Trinity) can rot on the list. It's not an either/or situation.

Originally Posted by VampireGod

I don't like the Broken Family of DD Monsters completely unrestricted. RFG has more than enough support, and the DD Family are broken in most ways, but especially in the way they stop COMPETITIVE themes from being competitive. They'd slaughter crystal beasts, which have potential (when played by someone who's good) to be a good deck. They stop zombies, which are going to become Teir 1 when Il Blud and Zombie Master hit the TCG.

We do not yet know the impact of Il Blud and/or Zombie Master on anything.

If the Crystal Beast and Zombie themes can't handle the simplistic 1-for-1 removal of the DD family, then perhaps the game designers should improve those themes. Anyway, what has D.D. Assailant done since reverting to 2-per deck? Nothing. DDWL's status on the list is a relic of the Chaos era. And of course, we haven't even mentioned D.D. Warrior, who despite being cheaper than a playset of the immensely popular Trooper, or even a single copy of CCV, has seen virtually no play at the highest levels, while those other, more expensive cards have flourished.

Originally Posted by VampireGod

The ONLY card that can even come remotely close to stopping them from being broken is CCV, which, while it's skilled control, scrubby n00bs already whine about because they can't overcome a little disadvantage to win.

Yeah, nothing like your opponent flipping CCV to tribute Sangan, grab Trooper, and wipe out all your playable monsters. If you're going to hold the DDs responsible for killing competitive themes, then you have to hold CCV accountable, too (that, and it's a lucksackish card that offers immense advantage for negligible cost).

[g.keeper]

Originally Posted by VampireGod
The ONLY card that can even come remotely close to stopping them from being broken is CCV, which, while it's skilled control, scrubby n00bs already whine about because they can't overcome a little disadvantage to win.

All the viruses and maybe EEV should be banned. They are luck based from the start.
DDV can ruin a deck type and CCV can too. EEV can be abused to gain unfair advantage. But really not sure how playable it is. Banning DDV and CCV is a must. EEV not really sure of but i have it banned.

[Crossfade]

Originally Posted by g.keeper

All the viruses and maybe EEV should be banned. They are luck based from the start.
DDV can ruin a deck type and CCV can too. EEV can be abused to gain unfair advantage. But really not sure how playable it is. Banning DDV and CCV is a must. EEV not really sure of but i have it banned.

Banning CCV is a must. DDV... not so much, unless Scientist were to come off of the list. EEV should never touch the list.

Please preach things that are logical, not things pretending to be.

[g.keeper]

Originally Posted by Crossfade`

Banning CCV is a must. DDV... not so much, unless Scientist were to come off of the list. EEV should never touch the list.

Please preach things that are logical, not things pretending to be.

Why would you not ban a card that if see tournament play can be way to good of a card and is based around luck.
If the card does find a way to become playable then it would need to be banned. Banning it now would stop it from ever becoming broken, not saying it will.

Before you post read this, please dont post lets ban all unplayable cards because they can be good.
EEV is luck based, and can be broken if they every create a card you can abuse it with.

[Azn_Boy]

Originally Posted by g.keeper

Why would you not ban a card that if see tournament play can be way to good of a card and is based around luck.
If the card does find a way to become playable then it would need to be banned. Banning it now would stop it from ever becoming broken, not saying it will.

Before you post read this, please dont post lets ban all unplayable cards because they can be good.
EEV is luck based, and can be broken if they every create a card you can abuse it with.

Snipe Hunter is luck based, and it can be abused, should it be banned?

And all you're saying are If this, or if that. Until it actually happens, If isn't gonna cut it.

[turkeyspit]

I actually recently played against a Virus deck.

3x EEV
2x DDV
3x Mist Archfiend
3x End of Anubis
2x Recurring Nightmare
2-3x Reasoning
2-3x Monster Gate
3x Skill Drain

It did have bad hands on occaision, but lemme tell you, it was damn devastating. Once DDV has gone off, it's easy to see if your opponent holds Spells or Traps in their hand, and EEV can just wipe the floor with you.

[MarlinBirdChaosBrady]

EEV is still bad. The cost balances out for the reward of the effect. You may not even hit anything. Most decks anyway run only 10-12 spells and 5-8 traps. Even with other virus cards it's unlikely to work that well. I mean come on you gotta drop a very high level monster that could be more effective than the card your using itself.

DDV is hard to pull off and not nearly as effective as CCV. Weak monsters don't clinch the game that easily, not to menchin that you can hit Treeborn, Troopers on the field, Sangan, etc. It's not perfect, it can hurt your opponent but it's rare that it really does the job against most decks.

CCV though, that's another story. To the point where it becomes MF + TT + Confiscation then you can call that broken. Also the only counters to it being Jinzo, Vampire Lord/Phoenix (if they die in your hand you can bring them back) Wildheart and a few others, it's hard to stop and it's very devistating. The other viruses though can potential break the duel but not more than most other cards can on their own.

[VampireGod]

Originally Posted by T-Drag

[color="Cyan"]

Why on earth would they need TIV, when they have 2-3 Snipe? TIV would make a difference, but not enough to break the game. Face it, TIV is on the list because UDE just didn't like it, and because it wiped out noobs who overextended with like four Zombies or Beast-Warriors at a time.

There is a difference between playing a deck which is aggressive by NATURE, and just overextending. I personally WANTED people to tribe my zombies, because I've always played 3x book of life, so could rfg virtually anything they dumped. Not only that, but it powered Vlord anyway. Beast-Warriors aren't even a competitive theme, they're not one of the ones that were actually developed even halfway decent, they're just beaters.

Originally Posted by T-Drag

[color=CYAN] Malicious at 1 is one of the dumbest adjustments that could be made: a 6-star 800/800 monster that fails if more than one copy ends up in your hand. You might as well limit Peten the Dark Clown. What's the point? The meta has really sunk to a low point if we're talking about Limiting Malicious. Why don't we just Limit every successful, versatile card in the game, all in the pursuit of "diversity" and "themes."

Yeah because we all know no card has ever been limited due to having broken COMBOS and not it itself being intrinsically broken.

Originally Posted by T-Drag

[color=CYAN]Rather than touch Trooper, we should outright ban both Limiter and Duplication, and proceed from there. Bringing back some chainable defenses might help, too.

You won;t get any argument over Limiter Removal from ME. It's nothing but an OTK tool. The problem of what you're suggesting (ban a balanced card to try to nerf a card that's intrinsically broken, due to it's combos) is the same thing we ***** about konami doing with future fusion and overload fusion to nerf chimeratech. Sure, it worked, but it pretty much killed off some good fusion support too. Machine duplication doesn't do 5-8000 damage. The TROOPERS it summons do. Trooper is another one like Night Assailant,... better and more balanced at 1 as opposed to 3. I don't give a **** about collectors who will ***** and moan about spending tons on 3, and the list shouldn't either.

Originally Posted by T-Drag

[color=CYAN]I've said it 340293407 times but I'll say it again: we should be bringing cards off the list to combat problems in the metagame. Putting cards on the list isn't the only way to address problems, after all. I mean, how much better would the Brain/Snatch/Trooper infested meta be if we had 3x Book and 3x Goats, and no Snatch/Ring/Dupe/Limter?

Umm, in case you've been a bit out of touch, I'm a proponent of 3x book and 3x goat. Absolutely and in every way. I'm also a proponent of snatch, ring and limiter being banned. Absolutely and in every way. With the way Trooper mills, its potential to still define and even break the meta is still high level. Only if it's restricted (note I am NOT calling for a ban)will it really be balanced, since its broken combos will be harder to pull off, and thus take actual SKILL.

Originally Posted by T-Drag

[color=CYAN]What on earth can Instant Fusion do without TER?

BLS is not legal and the players on here who wish for TER, in addition to more Goats and Books, are not at all arguing for BLS's return. The good elements of the Goat format (Goats, Books, TER, Morph) can be preserved, while the bad elements (Tsuku, BLS, Serpent, Trinity) can rot on the list. It's not an either/or situation.

The players on here who wish for TER generally haven't won anything since choat control ended. They want the only way they know how to win back, and therefore they whine and cry about it. Relinquished is balanced. TER is broken. Look at it:

You get ANY opponent's monster, thus giving yourself it's attack. Your opponent can't attack. You don't have to, since you can pretty much sit there and draw until you have damn near anything in your hand.

This is NOT good, NOT balanced. Gravity Bind, LLAB at 3 are balanced. TER isn't. No cost, no detrimental effect to using it, nothing. Balanced cards have costs and can have issues with usage. TER has neither of the above.

Originally Posted by T-Drag

[color=CYAN]We do not yet know the impact of Il Blud and/or Zombie Master on anything.

If the Crystal Beast and Zombie themes can't handle the simplistic 1-for-1 removal of the DD family, then perhaps the game designers should improve those themes. Anyway, what has D.D. Assailant done since reverting to 2-per deck? Nothing. DDWL's status on the list is a relic of the Chaos era. And of course, we haven't even mentioned D.D. Warrior, who despite being cheaper than a playset of the immensely popular Trooper, or even a single copy of CCV, has seen virtually no play at the highest levels, while those other, more expensive cards have flourished.

Il Blud and Zombie Master are most of what we've been waiting for to make Zombies truely premiere level competitive. The problem with the DD monsters is they're not removal. Exiled Force is skilled removal. the DD monsters cause major issues for ANY deck who's win condition includes attacking, and that includes virtually any teir 1 deck. When DDA was at 3, it was ran in any deck that wanted to win. Now, with Banishers, Macrocosmos, Dimensional Fissure, the DD Family can NEVER be at 3, because it will pretty much render ANY deck who's cards don't have "removed from play" in their description worthless.

Originally Posted by T-Drag

Yeah, nothing like your opponent flipping CCV to tribute Sangan, grab Trooper, and wipe out all your playable monsters. If you're going to hold the DDs responsible for killing competitive themes, then you have to hold CCV accountable, too (that, and it's a lucksackish card that offers immense advantage for negligible cost).

There's nothing like your opponent flipping sangan and then torrential to clear the field, summoning a trooper, or worse, a Don (which, 99% of the time will do JUST AS MUCH HAND DAMAGE AS CCV), wreck your hand or even deck, and eliminate most chances of coming back anyway. Especially since noone who plays don doesn't protect him.


Sorry, but your arguments really don't mean much of anything.