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Old 04-06-2005, 07:03 PM   #1
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Default Gravekeeper's Vs Zombies

Well well well the struggle continues, it's the gravekeeper's who screwed me over last saturday,here's what happened,
I entered with my friend to doubles me having a zombie and my friend having a beatdown. Man we got schooled we faced a team of gravekeepers . once destroying all of this guy's necrovalley's thought it was over ,I could finally play book of life but the other guy had 3 more necrovalleys ,so my partner was left alone and me having 2 books of life and a premature burial

second round went better cause I side decked Deck devastation virus , 2 dust tornadoes, and a cursed seal of the forbidden spell . that match was won easily me and my friend kept on drawing noblemans of crossout , this is good cause this got rid of 6 gravekeeper spies ,cool huh? one down with the rest of em'.
third round we lost he had dead draws so did I


let's see why my zombies lost shall we?

necrovalley,necrovalley,and necrovalley

final thought, zombie players better have a side deck to counter gravekeepers otherwise you'll end up with worthless turtles and books of lifes.
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Old 04-06-2005, 07:08 PM   #2
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Necrovalley doesn't stop Pyramid Turtle. That's still an awesome card. And Zombies don't do too badly against Gravekeepers.
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Old 04-06-2005, 07:13 PM   #3
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Ya, turtles aren't affected by Necrovalley. But all your recursion is, which is a big part of Zombies. At regionals I faced a good zombie deck and beat him relatively easy. Gravekeeper's do have an advantage, but Zombies can take Gravekeeper's down if theyplay smart, any deck can be beaten if you play smart...


-tss
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Old 04-06-2005, 07:14 PM   #4
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that cheater ,that was my first time using zombie against gravekeeper ,I didnt know
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Old 04-06-2005, 07:19 PM   #5
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Necrovalley negates card that target a monster in the Graveyard as a target. You cannot retrieve monsters from the graveyard to your hand, field or deck. You cannot remove cards from play. But cards whose effects activate IN the graveyard go through. The following card in which you may use:

Vampire Lord
Pyramid Turtle
Giant Rat
Sinister Serpent
Mystic Tomato


etc....


-tss
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Old 04-06-2005, 08:02 PM   #6
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Yeah, you got cheated dude. My Zombie deck doesn't really have trouble with Gravekeeper decks, so, that is good. I think you just got cheated, but, if you knew rulings on those tricky cards you may have been in better shape. Either way, sorryz man.
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Old 04-06-2005, 08:50 PM   #7
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GKs will need some more support, or Necrovalley will need to be re-ruled in order for them to beat Zombies regularly...

I'd like to see a Gravekeeper like:

Gravekeeper's Commander
1500/1500 DARK ****
Spellcaster
Effect: When this card is face-up on the field when Necrovalley is active on the field, negate all effects that activate in your opponent's graveyard. Increase this card's attack strength by 500 for every face-up monster with "Gravekeeper's" in it's name.

Powerful but not broken, just what GK decks would need to be more competative.
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Old 04-06-2005, 08:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoontang
GKs will need some more support, or Necrovalley will need to be re-ruled in order for them to beat Zombies regularly...

I'd like to see a Gravekeeper like:

Gravekeeper's Commander
1500/1500 DARK ****
Spellcaster
Effect: When this card is face-up on the field when Necrovalley is active on the field, negate all effects that activate in your opponent's graveyard. Increase this card's attack strength by 500 for every face-up monster with "Gravekeeper's" in it's name.

Powerful but not broken, just what GK decks would need to be more competative.
Yeah I was thinking somthing along the same thing as that Spoon...
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Old 04-06-2005, 08:54 PM   #9
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Not broken? Look at it. It GREATLY enhances Necrovalley's power and gains 500 for essentially everyone one of your monsters in a deck that naturally swarms. Broken. Take away the self power boost and maybe you'll have a more balanced card.
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Old 04-06-2005, 08:58 PM   #10
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Or maybe a monster you can tribute from the field to negate an effect that would destroy Necrovalley!

Altough the opponent could just use another field card.
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Old 04-06-2005, 10:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSinisterSerpent
Ya, turtles aren't affected by Necrovalley. But all your recursion is, which is a big part of Zombies. At regionals I faced a good zombie deck and beat him relatively easy. Gravekeeper's do have an advantage, but Zombies can take Gravekeeper's down if theyplay smart, any deck can be beaten if you play smart...


-tss
OMG...a humble GK duelist. I commend you for being a rare breed. I have been trying to tell everyone the same thing. GK and Zombie are natural enemies because of their respective strategies being complete opposites. This can spark some serious debate on which deck is better but it ultimately comes down to skill and luck of the draw.
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Old 04-06-2005, 10:21 PM   #12
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GK will pwn zombie 4 3v3r.
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Old 04-06-2005, 10:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoontang
GKs will need some more support, or Necrovalley will need to be re-ruled in order for them to beat Zombies regularly...

I'd like to see a Gravekeeper like:

Gravekeeper's Commander
1500/1500 DARK ****
Spellcaster
Effect: When this card is face-up on the field when Necrovalley is active on the field, negate all effects that activate in your opponent's graveyard. Increase this card's attack strength by 500 for every face-up monster with "Gravekeeper's" in it's name.

Powerful but not broken, just what GK decks would need to be more competative.
Not broken? Thats a 2500 no tribute drop AT THE MINIMUM. And then you factor in the GK SWARM factor... needs to be rewriten.
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Old 04-06-2005, 10:40 PM   #14
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I personally feel that the Gravekeepers do not need any more new monsters or magic and trap cards.

Zombie decks can do very well against Gravekeepers, especially with all the anti-magic cards that are out there, like if a Zombie deck were to run let's say 2 Cursed Seal of the Forbidden (I think thats how it's spelled) and saved at least one for the Necrovalley card then it would practically render Gravekeepers powerless, therefore making the Gravekeeper duelist rely on the other cards in his/her deck, whcih generally isn't all that bad of a choice, but certainly makes it harder to render the Zombies "dead", in most cases good Gravekeeper duelists are generally prepared for such instances.

Just like the other thread that pits A.L.O. and Gravekeeper decks I would say that both have ups and both have their downs, however the Gravekeepers stand with a slightly higher advantage with their land cards.
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Old 04-06-2005, 10:54 PM   #15
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I fear no gravekeepers deck. I run MST and heavy storm and the occasional Pheonix magic burrner to keep my opponents on their toes. JUST MAKE SURE you do NOT let them bring out necrovalley.....kill that field bonus ASAP!!!

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Old 04-06-2005, 11:22 PM   #16
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I've run into a problem against a zombie deck (actually i built it for him).

The stupid thing is that Vampire Genesis is what screwed me over (couldn't beat the score and used up my removal). It sucks 9 times out of 10 but that 1 time it completely disassembled me.

2nd time was the Kokki's that hurt me (that spellcaster effect of theirs).
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Old 04-07-2005, 01:38 AM   #17
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Like an ALO deck, the GK deck really depends on the Necrovalley or the GKs wouldn't get their awesome effects and power boost. Like any deck that runs a lot of magics/ traps/ fields the best way to defeat them are to use M/T removal from your side deck ( Mobius anyone?). That is the only weakness I see in GKs, but other than that these cards pwn.
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Old 04-07-2005, 08:01 AM   #18
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I believe that Zombies are powerful enough. It can really be an even match-up, Zombies vs Gravekeepers. On one hand, Zombies have Ryu Kokki, who's 2400 attack and 2000 defense basically says No to the Assailant. Only GK that can kill Ryu is the Chief. Ryu Kokki is a potent tool against the GKs. Vampire Lord is not. Sure the Lord's effect activates in the graveyard, but as soon as the Valley hits the field, Assailant can destroy the Lord and it won't come back.

The other hand is that GKs have the Assailant, which can basically handle any monster in a Zombie deck without too much problem, Ryu Kokki not included. He totally owns Spirit Reapers, Lords, and can even switch the Turtle to attack mode if it's face up to at least deal a little bit of damage.

Being an avid GK player, I do agree with TSS that Gravekeepers aren't the perfect deck. Each deck has its weaknesses. Zombie players should rely on the Pyramid Turtle and search for Ryu Kokki every time to get GKs a run for their money.
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Old 04-07-2005, 08:18 AM   #19
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Kokki presents the biggest zombie problem for GK decks . . . but hopefully your deck has enough monster removal (hammer/smashing, tribe, ring, exiled, ect.) and does not rely solely on the Assailant as the only form of monster destruction.
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Old 04-07-2005, 08:27 AM   #20
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Oh I'm prepared for Kokki :) I have TIV, Ring, Exiled in sideboard (not a big fan of Exiled to be honest). If I need to, I also have Smashing Grounds in sideboard as well. First game may be tough, but I've beaten a few Zombie decks. Of course, I've lost to some as well, but it's an ongoing battle :)
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Old 04-07-2005, 10:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emnm
Like an ALO deck, the GK deck really depends on the Necrovalley or the GKs wouldn't get their awesome effects and power boost.
I'm not sure if you've read any of the Gravekeeper cards, but the only one that "actually" needs Necrovalley for her effect if Gravekeeper's Assailant, the rest all work without Necrovalley, and for all those people stating that without Necrovalley the Gravekeeper attacks suffer, this is also easily remedied with equips in the likes of Axe of Despair, United We Stand, Mage Power, etc...
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Old 04-07-2005, 10:47 AM   #22
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Ok .. I am a zombie player for a long time now ....
and i face many GK decks (some well build, some not very good).. sure i lose to them ..but they lose to me more often ...

Cursed Seal of the Forbidden is a good side deck card against GK and also skill drain in my side deck ..Skill drain is very effective and totally fatal to GK ... also i have 2 dust tornado main deck so necrovalley is not really a big threat ...
Every deck has it weakness there is no perfect and invinble deck ...(all the difference is in your side deck)
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Old 04-07-2005, 11:38 AM   #23
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gravekeeper's are my favorite deck! Zombies are the most used decks. with my gravekeeper deck, I have yet to lose to a zombie deck, because I would find ways to kill ryu-kokki whenever it hit the field with the magic/traps. The rest of the zombie decks are toast, especially with them running a scapegoat or 2; gravekeeper are anti-chaos and anti-scapegoat!
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Old 04-07-2005, 11:48 AM   #24
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i dunno- i dont think GK can hold off zombies all that well (ignoring the fact that in the 2nd round they will side CSotFS/Mobius)

lets examine why:
  • vlord- still gets his effect in the gy
  • turtle- still able to function as the best searcher in the game
  • Ryu Kokki- only a chief can best him
  • most decks only run 2 BoL
  • 3 letters- DDV

now lets look at gk:
  • assailant- kills spirit reapers
  • spearsoldier- tramples reapers
  • gkspy- decent searcher, relies on flip tho
  • gk chief- only 2400 max, 1900 usually
  • necrovalley- very succeptable to CSotFS
  • DDV- but it requires necrovalley here

these are only brief glances, but the only think i see GK's having a large advantage on is spirit reaper. shutting down the recursion is nice, but that only shuts down the swarm, not the speed or strength.

im not puttin down gk (its like my secondary decktype). but theres a reason i run zombies instead of it.
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Old 04-07-2005, 12:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh378
I fear no gravekeepers deck. I run MST and heavy storm and the occasional Pheonix magic burrner to keep my opponents on their toes. JUST MAKE SURE you do NOT let them bring out necrovalley.....kill that field bonus ASAP!!!

-Josh378
you might fear mine. Its not the one in the sig, but I've got 2 versions of Gravekeepers. One is a hybrid that combines Gravekeepers and Zombies, the other is a Gravekeepers bent on pure power with a full Zombie side deck. They are both nasty, plus if you can't destroy valley quickly, the recursion dies. Also, a good player side decks or main decks Prohibition.
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