~Ramses Essay #2: CEDevice vs. Bottomless TH

[ramses]

~Ramses Essay #2:

CEDevice vs. Bottomless TH

Hi everybody, Ramses here again with other interesting ideas about cards fixes/replacements. I think this article may be a good complement to my last paper (hope so :) ). Now let’s begin.

Unlike the Magic cards (which many times tends to be around 18), Trap cards are very limited in their number (5 to 6, depending of which deck you’re running). This latter issue is the result of a powerful monster that can negate the effect and activation of all Traps: Jinzo.

Being limited to such a small size of cards, let’s review which Trap cards are commonly used in the Main deck (the exception is of course Burner decks):


[Call of the Haunted, Ring of Destruction, Torrential Tribute]
These three cards are almost a “staple” in any deck, so no major discussion can be held here.

[Magic Cylinder, Ceasefire]
Excellent pair of Trap cards for “burner” purposes.

[Solemn Judgment]
The “ultimate” Trap cards in terms of monster summon negation, activation of Magic and other Trap cards.

[Dust Tornado]
Trap “replacement” of Mystical Space Typhoon.

[Bottomless Trap Hole, Sakuretsu Armor, Compulsory Evacuation Device]
Did you notice that the discussion has become now a “threesome”?


a) Bottomless Trap Hole. LOD-092 “When your opponent Normal Summons, Flip Summons, or Special Summons a monster with an ATK of 1500 or more, the monster is destroyed and removed from play”.

Ahh! What a lovely card this used to be in the old days before Torrential Tribute. Let see the Advantages of this card:

+ If Cyber Jar is flipped during a Main Phase, and the opponent Special Summons Dark Blade, Luster Dragon, Magical Scientist and a face-down monster, you can activate Bottomless Trap Hole and both Luster Dragon and Dark Blade will be removed from play. The Magical Scientist, face-down monster, and all monsters you summoned will remain on the field.

+ This Trap card may be a 1 on 1 card trade, which means that it can remove from play that pesky DDWL, Gorilla or even a BLS-EOTB. I say “maybe” because the monster summoned by your opponents can have <1500 ATK and reap you apart (i.e. Spirit Reaper, Tsukuyomi).

+ If your opponent summons / Special Summons a monster(s) with and ATK higher than 1500, you will never him/her coming back in the current game (unless that monster is Jinzo of course). This is far better that its weak counterpart Trap Hole, thus gives you the advantage in Cemetery removal.


The disadvantages may be presented as follows:

- A simple Trap/Magic removal may convert this card in useless material (MST, Dust Tornado, Heavy Storm and even an innocent Giant Trunade). It is Non-chainable and I believe this is the major problem with BTH.

- Watch out for those intriguing D.D. coming back cards! (Fusion & Return). Sometimes happens –not so often- that your opponent may see that you run x3 Bottomless Trap Hole against his/her beast sick deck, so in the next round they may sidedeck “Return from the D.D.” or even a “Dimension Fusion” in order to kick your ass in a few turns.



b) Sakuretsu Armor. DCR-102 “You can activate this card when your opponent declares an attack. Destroy the attacking monster”.

A common card that is presented to the world as a mini Mirror Force. Is really that good? Let’s see his pluses:

+ The main difference with BTH, is that this card can prevent the attacking to your Life Point with any monster ATK strength. So, that Spirit Reaper attack (Yata in the old days), will destroy his/her monster; thus giving you Field advantage.

+ You can decide which monster must die. So, if your opponent has a weenie monster and a huge threat; you can select the destruction of the biggest attacking creature.

+ It works in any summoning monster (normal, special, fusion, ritual, Flip summon) except what the other card states another thing (i.e. Sorcerer of Dark Magic)


But, nobody is perfect:

- It only sends your opponent’s monster to the graveyard, so they may be resurrected via Call of the Haunted or Premature Burial.

- It also has the same problem presented with Bottomless Trap Hole, it lacks of chain ability. Besides that, you must wait that your opponent declares an attack.

- Rise of Destiny has brought to the Yu-Gi-Oh! World some interesting monster cards that really brings down Sakuretsu Armor. For example, Pitch-Black Warwolf and Mirage Dragon which special ability is: “As long as this card remains face-up on your side of the field, your opponent cannot activate Trap Cards during the Battle Phase”. In a word SA sucks against these creatures.


c) Compulsory Evacuation Device. IOC-103 “Return 1 monster on the field to its owner's hand”.

Many people say that this Trap belongs to a “Tech” card, meaning that is good used against certain combos used by your opponent. Let’s find out explaining some of its advantages:

+ The most important factor about CEDevice relies on its Chain ability. Let’s explain this fact with a few examples:

i. Your opponent plays Snatch Steal in order to pwn your LP with your own BLS-EOTB. Pow! You activate Compulsory Evacuation Device and come to papa!

ii. You have a Magician of Faith face down, waiting to be flipped so you can recover that broken Magic card from your Cemetery. You adversary sniffs your strategy so he/she plays Change of Heart. Doh! You activate Compulsory Evacuation Device in order to await your next turn.

iii. You have a beautiful BLS-EOTE summoned on the field and your opponent activates enemy controller (alongside with some Scapegoats). Oh no… your most powerful beast is going to the wrong hands… Pam! Come back to my hands!

iv. You set your CED and then set a creature with decent defense strength. At your opponent’s turn he/she fails in killing your only monster on the field. With an angry face sets two f/d cards. Your turn, immediately Tribute summon Mobius the Frost Monarch and your opponents chains with Bottomless Trap Hole (Torrential Tribute or even a Ring of Destruction if you want), so finally you chain your Compulsory Evacuation Device. True, you may not have any monsters left to protect your LP but you have Hand Advantage so your can set an appropriate cards onto the field (i.e. Goats).

v. You are facing a good build Burner deck. Fortunately you have a Mobius the Frost Monarch in your deck and another Side decked. You play the round with both of them and x3 CED. Then, your opponent strategy is so, so screwed up that may suit you for psychological damage! Image the other options you can handle against Stalling decks with CEDevice: Breaker the Magical Warrior, Marauding Captain and so on.

vi. You use the effect of Breaker the Magical Warrior to find out that the only Trap on your opponent’s side of the field was Mystical Space Typhoon. Then, you activate Creature Swap and your enemy gives you his/her only f/u ATK position monster. You say something like “Here, I give you my Breaker… Wait, I activate CEDevice! Come back to papa!” (In this case you not only will have field advantage but also another MST in hand!).

Downsides:

- Doesn’t kill your opponent’s monster (due difference with BTH and SA). Yes, the creature will be back to your adversary’s hand, but… what if you are awaiting a Final / Heavy attack? Does Hand advantage mean anything at that critical LP situation?

- Jinzo (but which Trap aren’t screwed with this creature?), because this card runs better in threesomes.



Well my Pojo friends, that’s all my mind can reach to, for now.

I hope I didn’t was driven towards a certain card but the facts explains for themselves. So, now I believe we have reached the madurity of this document:

Which Trap cards your will play for now on; and, most importantly, fixing other’s people decks:

3x Compulsory Evacuation Device

OR

2x Bottomless Trap Hole,
1x Sakuretsu Armor :confused:

You analysis/decision begins right now…

[Mystic Gohan]

CED all they way. It will clear the field regardless of attack strength.

[Ieatemokids43]

How do you feel about this:

2x CED

OR

2x BTH

I've got two spots in my deck and don't know which one to use :confused:

[Mystic Gohan]

Depends on what your deck is but I would most likely go with CED.

[now2ai8]

CED in my meta b/c creature swaps is all over my meta. CED is a 2 for 1 trade off if they used creature swap on it, it stops TER and balter and basically owns a control deck. Control decks are popular in my area.

[ramses]

Originally Posted by now2ai8

CED in my meta b/c creature swaps is all over my meta. CED is a 2 for 1 trade off if they used creature swap on it, it stops TER and balter and basically owns a control deck. Control decks are popular in my area.

Ieatemokids43:

I clicked your Deck and since you are running semi-Beastdown deck with Hand control cards (Mefist the Infernal General, ~Prenegs and Robbin Goblin included, love this idea); it is very likely that your opponent will never gives you hard times if you play with (free fixes):

+ 1 Enraged Battle Ox
+ 1 Gorilla
- 2 Tsukuyomi

Conclusion: Play CEDevice due you rely on a Heavy Hand Control Deck :) .


Now2ai8:
Agree. The Scapegoats Combos :eek: (Creature Swap, Enemy Controller and even Metamorphosis) heavily relies on absorbing on of your monsters for a single turn. So, let them play that and chain with your Compulsory Evacuation Device.

[Darkhorse]

Originally Posted by ramses

Ahh! What a lovely card this used to be in the old days before Torrential Tribute.

Um, you do realize that Torrential Tribute came out in LON and Bottomless Trap Hole came out afterwards in LOD??

[ramses]

Originally Posted by Darkhorse

Um, you do realize that Torrential Tribute came out in LON and Bottomless Trap Hole came out afterwards in LOD??

Uhmm, Yes. :p

:confused:

[Wade8813]

Pretty good analysis.

vi. You use the effect of Breaker the Magical Warrior to find out that the only Trap on your opponent’s side of the field was Mystical Space Typhoon. Then, you activate Creature Swap and your enemy gives you his/her only f/u ATK position monster. You say something like “Here, I give you my Breaker… Wait, I activate CEDevice! Come back to papa!” (In this case you not only will have field advantage but also another MST in hand!).

Good idea. Just clarify that you activate CED after Creature Swap resolves-you don't want to negate your own Creature Swap.

[marhawkman]

Another is use it in a beat down to keep your opponent from getting monsters out.

[BlackSayen13]

good analysis of the 3 cards .....

for me the ultimate trap is waboku .. but if i have to pick one of the 3 you analyse today .. nothing is better than waboku.... :)

I will go with Bottomless trap hole (even if it is not chainable), it get ride of every nasty monster .. removing from play a newly summon horus LV6 or 8, a BLS, a vampire lord is a much game breaking effect than sending it back to it hand ...

with the new monster (warwolf and the dragon) Sakuretsu Armor is not that effective anymore..CED has a nice effect and works great in a bounce back deck, or in side deck against burn.

[now2ai8]

Waboku freakin' sucks in advance format!! Seriously, it sucks. When the meta shifted from hand to field control, there's no point in using waboku. At best, it saves you...for one turn. There's no more top decking dark hole or raigeki to save you anymore. There are less game breaking cards in advance format that will turn the game around for you when you're in trouble. Waboku will just delay your death most of the time. Your best bet is to prevent them from swarming in the 1st place with cards like sakuretsu armor, bottomless traphole, etc. This makes waboku a lot less playable in most decks. Granted, some decks benefit some what from waboku (a burn deck, maybe??). I would rather have a 1 for 1 trade off than have a 1 for 0 trade off.

[ramses]

Originally Posted by BlackSayen13

good analysis of the 3 cards .....

for me the ultimate trap is waboku .. but if i have to pick one of the 3 you analyse today .. nothing is better than waboku....

I will go with Bottomless trap hole (even if it is not chainable), it get ride of every nasty monster .. removing from play a newly summon horus LV6 or 8, a BLS, a vampire lord is a much game breaking effect than sending it back to it hand ...

with the new monster (warwolf and the dragon) Sakuretsu Armor is not that effective anymore..CED has a nice effect and works great in a bounce back deck, or in side deck against burn.

Ok, then Waboku is your favorite Trap card. It can save your LP for a single turn and that is maybe more than enough for your strategy. Congrats! ;)

I agree that BTH prevents further summonings from your opponent´s hand but, really, are you still afraid of the dark? -please exclude Jinzo from this analysis:

BLS? "Please, I insist that you remove another light/dark from your cementery to SS your powerful creature". It is highly probable that this will not happen in your opponent´s turn (except if he/she has played Painful Choice). So: You have survived one more turn and your opponent has no Field advantage.

Horus LV8? "Oh my God, I cannot activate my Magic cards... Wait! Would you be so nice and do the Special Summoning conditions one more time?" Once again, you will be prepared next round from what you know it´s coming.

V-Lord? "Noooo!... Is he really a threat?"

As you may see, my padawan friend, BTH seems to be really a waste of space these ADVanced days, specially with those pesky Goats Combos (Creature Swap, Enemy Controller, Morph).

And, do you know what is my Ultimate Trap card in order to:

- Prevent the Summoning of that incredible pesky monster?
- Negate the activation of that super dopper Magic card?
- Negate and destroy that annoying Trap card?

Ta-ta-tam-tata!: Solemn Judgment. :eek:

[Voldo's claw]

Waboku freakin' sucks in advance format!! Seriously, it sucks. When the meta shifted from hand to field control, there's no point in using waboku. At best, it saves you...for one turn.

Have you ever played an XYZ deck? appartanly not. Some decks benefit HUGELY from waboku. The instant I took my wabokus out in threes was also the instant I started losing. Waboku is a great card because it is one of the most versatile traps in the game, and now that warriors and swarming are on the loose. Puts you in a situation where you NEED THAT waboku because they'll be hitting you for alot out of nowhere...



oh yeah and

CED ALL THE WAY!

[One_Sane_Lunatic]

Originally Posted by ramses

- 2 Tsukuyomi

My... why does everyone listen to the CotD people about this card? It doesn't suck...

But anyway...

A week ago I would have said different, but CED is by far the better card. It can be done defensively getting back flips, but it can also be used to piss off your oppenent. He activates metamorphosis? Chain CED. He summoned BLS? Respond with CED. How much attack does that Blade Knight Have? Wait, wait... CED! Aww... man a marauding captain lock...

Well you get the idea...

Waboku freakin' sucks in advance format!!

What the crap is you smokin child? Jinzo is being played LESS in advanced. Waboku still goes strong, this effect should read "you get a free turn, your opponent is going to slap you like a ***** for activating this" it is garaunteed SOLID protection for everything on your field, and without the massive field clearers (raigeki/dark hole) that becomes more important. Its not for everyones deck, but it DOES NOT SUCK!

[Yami_Malik]

CEDvice pwnz.
Waboku pwnz.
End of story.

[now2ai8]

Look, most of us will try to use the best traps out there. I say waboku sucks b/c of the current meta. Well, there are far more worst traps. I take that back. Waboku doesn't suck. It's just way, way less effective now. I know waboku is decent. However, go around and look at the majority of all regional winning decks. They don't play it b/c there are other traps that are better. CED, bottomless traphole and sakuretsu armor are better traps in this meta. Go point out waboku to me in those decks........ Maybe sided?? You won't see many main decked. Why?

There are far less swarm power now than ever before. Now why would I say that? Well, before the ban, here was the way it went. CED, BLS, monster reborn, premature burial, call of the haunted, and then yata. Now that's major swarmage. Granted, you won't get this insane swarmage many times. However, there were many powerful cards that can win you the game in one turn. A waboku can save you from all of this. Opponent ends turn.... your turn... of course, raigeki or dark hole (assuming he hasn't blown up the world w/ CED). You see how waboku turned into a 2+ for 1 trade off? You can't do that anymore. Maybe when lighting vortex comes out........

However, in advance format, it is harder to swarm for a one turn kill. If you haven't noticed, warrior swarm decks suck. You won't see many winning tournaments. What's the point of summon out the captain + another monster? To do an extra 1200??? That's weak. If they do start swarmming, they can't swarm all at once. It takes them a few turns to build up. The best way to counter this is to trade off cards 1 for 1 or 2 for 1. You can't just activate waboku and let them pile up on you. Let's face it, BLS control is the best deck right now. It's not warrior. Unless you consider a deck with d.d's and BLS a warrior deck. Waboku is not the best option in this meta (regional metas).

Also, the major attraction of waboku is its chainability. With the restriction of MST, and ban of HFD, there are far less m/t destroyer played. Dust tornado is a subsitution. Too bad not many people run 2 of it to replace the 3x MST onced played. It's also slower. Wabok lost a lot of playability in this meta. Let's face it. People would rather play sakuretsu armor and/or CED in place of waboku in most deck.

To sum things up, waboku does not suck. It still is one of the card that guarantee protection. If you really, really need that guaranteed protection for that one turn in your deck to make your deck runs well, by all means, run waboku. Too bad it doesn't "pwnz" anymore either.

CED>waboku

[ddwarriorlady]

That was a very good essay ramses. I am going to put some more ceds in my decks.I am going to try a solemn judgement also.

[thesmartone]

Originally Posted by Yami_Malik

CEDvice pwnz.
Waboku pwnz.
End of story.

wow, i agree.

in AF, i always have at least 2 CEDevices. nice essay, good job done.

[Kos4Evr]

The Versatility Award goes to...

Compulsary Evacuation Device

The best Monster Removal Award goes to...

Sakuretsu Armor

The best Anti-Chaos Award goes to...

Bottomless Trap Hole

Honestly, I am more likely to main deck 3 Sakuretsu and side deck 3 Bottomless that put any combinating of CEDevice in either. I'm just not a guy who likes bounce effects unless its Giant Trunade or MAYBE Spiritualism.

[URjustSOL]

Very good article Ramses. Fair and Balanced. You did some research, looked into all the angles and presented the facts about the cards. We've seen some lively replies as well.

Here's what I think:

1. They all deal in field control. This is a GOOD thing.
2. CED is chainable, BTH and SA are not.
3. CED can be used on your monsters, their monsters, f/d monsters. Very versitile.
4. BTH will remove the monster (usually) permanently, CED and SA won't.
5. SA can nuke any attacking monster, you get to pick the worst threat. Once they're in the battle phase, you can assume that they've brought out all their weapons.
6. When using BTH, you don't know when they're done summoning. Do you activate it now? Do you wait to see a worse threat? Do you take the chance that they're not done summoning and if they're moving into the battle phase you miss the activation timing? Obviously, if they summon BLS you BTH it, BUT there's a lot of other dangerous cards out there.
7. SA is worthless against Mirage Dragon and the Pitch-Black Warewolf. How played are these cards?
8. BTH: Many of the worst threats are <1500 ATK.
9. BTH can't be used in the battle step if a Shining Angel brings out DDWL.

Lets face it, all three of these cards are really effective and of main-deck quality. But these questions can ONLY be answered individually. How do they fit into your play-style, your deck, your mEta...

If it's not working for you, swap in a different card. Enjoy!

[Wade8813]

One disadvantage with Sakuretsu that I forgot earlier is that the monster you destroy might not attack. When I summon BLS or Horus Lv 8 or whatever, I often don't attack with them unless I know what the opponent's cards are; I know it might be Sakuretsu.

Waboku freakin' sucks in advance format!! Seriously, it sucks. When the meta shifted from hand to field control, there's no point in using waboku. At best, it saves you...for one turn. There's no more top decking dark hole or raigeki to save you anymore. There are less game breaking cards in advance format that will turn the game around for you when you're in trouble. Waboku will just delay your death most of the time. Your best bet is to prevent them from swarming in the 1st place with cards like sakuretsu armor, bottomless traphole, etc. This makes waboku a lot less playable in most decks. Granted, some decks benefit some what from waboku (a burn deck, maybe??). I would rather have a 1 for 1 trade off than have a 1 for 0 trade off.

(since you retracted part of this comment, I won't discuss that part right now).

The meta didn't really shift from hand control to field control. Both are just as important now as before. (Besides, Waboku is good for field control, but bad for hand control in most situations).

The main reasons Waboku is seeing less play is that there is less M/T removal, and because people are realizing it was overrated earlier (it was tossed in almost every deck theme). Also, Scapegoats tend to provide much better defense, and combo better.

V-Lord? "Noooo!... Is he really a threat?"

V Lord is definitely a threat. He can be powerful in many decks, and is that much more deadly in a Zombie deck.

And, do you know what is my Ultimate Trap card in order to:

- Prevent the Summoning of that incredible pesky monster?
- Negate the activation of that super dopper Magic card?
- Negate and destroy that annoying Trap card?

Ta-ta-tam-tata!: Solemn Judgment.

Except you might not want to play it early game...

What the crap is you smokin child? Jinzo is being played LESS in advanced. Waboku still goes strong, this effect should read "you get a free turn, your opponent is going to slap you like a ***** for activating this" it is garaunteed SOLID protection for everything on your field, and without the massive field clearers (raigeki/dark hole) that becomes more important. Its not for everyones deck, but it DOES NOT SUCK!

Jinzo is seeing about as much play now as before the bans. His decline in play occurred well before the bans arrived.

It's not a free turn; if you don't combo it, your opponent now has more cards compared to you (you play Waboku, opponent plays nothing), your opponent can Meta a goat into TER and eat one of your monsters (if they eat a F/D monster, they wouldn't have attacked for damage that turn anyway), etc.

[ramses]

Originally Posted by URjustSOL

Very good article Ramses. Fair and Balanced :p . You did some research, looked into all the angles and presented the facts about the cards. We've seen some lively replies as well.

Here's what I think:

6. When using BTH, you don't know when they're done summoning. Do you activate it now? Do you wait to see a worse threat? Do you take the chance that they're not done summoning and if they're moving into the battle phase you miss the activation timing? Obviously, if they summon BLS you BTH it, BUT there's a lot of other dangerous cards out there.

Missing the activation time, man that is really a “painful Choice” to decide. For example, they may Special Summon a considerable Threat but, what if their Cementery has a light and dark monster?

Originally Posted by URjustSOL

8. BTH: Many of the worst threats are <1500 ATK.

Right. It is incredible how many the worst threats are <1500 ATK. For example: Shinning Angel, Giant Rat, UFO Turtles, Mystic Tomatoes, Spirit Reaper, Maraundings.

Originally Posted by URjustSOL

9. BTH can't be used in the battle step if a Shining Angel brings out DDWL.

WTH!!! Can anyone please explain me this issue?

[Darkhorse]

when Shining Angel brings out DDWL, that occurs during the damage step. and you cannot activate BTH during the damage step because it is not a counter-trap and it doesn't modify the atk/def of any monsters.

[Ieatemokids43]

Originally Posted by ramses

Ieatemokids43:

I clicked your Deck and since you are running semi-Beastdown deck with Hand control cards (Mefist the Infernal General, ~Prenegs and Robbin Goblin included, love this idea); it is very likely that your opponent will never gives you hard times if you play with (free fixes):

+ 1 Enraged Battle Ox
+ 1 Gorilla
- 2 Tsukuyomi

Conclusion: Play CEDevice due you rely on a Heavy Hand Control Deck :) .

Hey, that was nice of you :D

I'm gonna leave the tsukuyomis, they pwn with creature swap AND kill gorillas, breaker, monarchs, etc...

I'll definitely test out CEdevices though if you guys think they'll work better.