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Old 07-02-2013, 11:22 AM   #1
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Default Do YOU think that Evilswarms will be hit?

Hello Pojo I'm here to get your opinion on whether or not Evilswarms (which is decreasing in play) will be hit come this September. If you think it will, what do you think will be hit? If you don't think they'll get hit, why?
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #2
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No, they wolnt be hit.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #3
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Probably not
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:24 AM   #4
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I think this post belongs in the Forbidden Limited Discussions. That said, I already posted a response there, so I'll copy and paste.

Here's what I think.

After JOTL, Ophion won't be the only go-to card. Number 66 will come out, and all of those Evilswarm variants we see right now will start using Kagetokage, maxing out on Safe Zone, and the focus will no longer just be to stop you from destroying an Ophion, but to get a lock going an such. Those variants have also dropped Pandemic to 2 or 1, and started using Vanity's Emptiness, Gozen Match, and other continuous cards that hurt.

These are the options:
Drop Rabbit to 1. It might be a bit harsh for other decks, but I'll slightly hurt the consistency. The whole Rabbit Engine might even be dropped by Evilswarm players. Unlikely to happen at the moment. I'd bet it would happen in March though.

Drop Safe Zone to 2. This way, the lock won't come out as often. Trust me, the lock hurts. Likely.

Drop Number 66 to 1. There would only be one chance to lock if you're not recycling. One chance to protect the continuous cards. One chance. Likely to happen only if Konami feels like touching newly released cards. I hope 66 isn't a secret :\

These aren't the Options.
Dropping Ophion to 1. It'll hurt the deck extremely badly, since this is the key card for the Archetype. It's the heart of the deck. Drop this and you kill the deck. (Seriously)

Dropping Pandemic to 1. No.

There's my thoughts.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xchaotic_orderx View Post
I think this post belongs in the Forbidden Limited Discussions.
After all this is the "Deck discussion" section and we are discussing a deck.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xchaotic_orderx View Post
Here's what I think.

After JOTL, Ophion won't be the only go-to card. Number 66 will come out, and all of those Evilswarm variants we see right now will start using Kagetokage, maxing out on Safe Zone, and the focus will no longer just be to stop you from destroying an Ophion, but to get a lock going an such. Those variants have also dropped Pandemic to 2 or 1, and started using Vanity's Emptiness, Gozen Match, and other continuous cards that hurt.

These are the options:
Drop Rabbit to 1. It might be a bit harsh for other decks, but I'll slightly hurt the consistency. The whole Rabbit Engine might even be dropped by Evilswarm players. Unlikely to happen at the moment. I'd bet it would happen in March though.

Drop Safe Zone to 2. This way, the lock won't come out as often. Trust me, the lock hurts. Likely.

Drop Number 66 to 1. There would only be one chance to lock if you're not recycling. One chance to protect the continuous cards. One chance. Likely to happen only if Konami feels like touching newly released cards. I hope 66 isn't a secret :\

These aren't the Options.
Dropping Ophion to 1. It'll hurt the deck extremely badly, since this is the key card for the Archetype. It's the heart of the deck. Drop this and you kill the deck. (Seriously)

Dropping Pandemic to 1. No.
I agree limiting pandemic or ophion is too much. But a Safe Zone semi limit seems pretty reasonable.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toptierman View Post
After all this is the "Deck discussion" section and we are discussing a deck.




I agree limiting pandemic or ophion is too much. But a Safe Zone semi limit seems pretty reasonable.

Oh, I just said that first part because there was another one of these open in that part of the forums. But, yeah, semi limit on Safe Zone seems like the best option at the moment. At least until Number 66 has been out for a while.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:04 PM   #7
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People normally use 2 Safe Zone...

But, since Ophion will suck once Dragon Rulers gets hit, then I guess they'll need some type of crutch.

I'm just waiting for Mistake....
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telvin123 View Post
People normally use 2 Safe Zone...

But, since Ophion will suck once Dragon Rulers gets hit, then I guess they'll need some type of crutch.

I'm just waiting for Mistake....
I'm talking about the OCG. People in TCG use 2-3 safe zones. People in OCG use 3 Safe Zone to lock the opponent with Number 66 and Safe Zone...
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xchaotic_orderx View Post
I'm talking about the OCG. People in TCG use 2-3 safe zones. People in OCG use 3 Safe Zone to lock the opponent with Number 66 and Safe Zone...
I'm just saying, semi-limiting Safe Zone won't really be a big deal... Not that I could really see it happening in the first place.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telvin123 View Post
People normally use 2 Safe Zone...

But, since Ophion will suck once Dragon Rulers gets hit, then I guess they'll need some type of crutch.

I'm just waiting for Mistake....
What will mistake do for lswarms besides being a trap version of thunderking?
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telvin123 View Post
I'm just saying, semi-limiting Safe Zone won't really be a big deal... Not that I could really see it happening in the first place.
http://imageshack.us/a/img812/179/mnw2.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img16/8760/mfvb.jpg

Duelist grounds has the translations, just type this after the url, /index.php?showtopic=153605
Needed to link this. It has V-Jump's meta analysis in the OCG. They've disregarded Ophion and started talking about Key Beetle and Safe Zone. If they even decided to touch Evilswarms, it'll be on either rabbit or those 2 cards. That's where I get my reasoning.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:32 PM   #12
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Do I think they should be hit. Hell yeah.
Do I think Konami will hit them. No.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telvin123 View Post
People normally use 2 Safe Zone...

But, since Ophion will suck once Dragon Rulers gets hit, then I guess they'll need some type of crutch.

I'm just waiting for Mistake....
I wouldn't say Ophion would suck, not by a long shot, even if Ophions summoning restriction ability isn't hurting your opponent he's still a 2550 beater who can +1 into a blanket Forbidden Lance, plus if he doesn't need to keep the material he can do this twice. Ophion will definitely be alot less useful but will not suck.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWolf View Post
I wouldn't say Ophion would suck, not by a long shot, even if Ophions summoning restriction ability isn't hurting your opponent he's still a 2550 beater who can +1 into a blanket Forbidden Lance, plus if he doesn't need to keep the material he can do this twice. Ophion will definitely be alot less useful but will not suck.
^^^This

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Old 07-02-2013, 01:48 PM   #15
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http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1137125

Holy ****, we have this exact thread going on, and in the right place!

I'd be!!! People not randomly spamming stuff in advanced deck discussion :P
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:48 PM   #16
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It's a balanced deck. No hit is needed.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWolf View Post
I wouldn't say Ophion would suck, not by a long shot, even if Ophions summoning restriction ability isn't hurting your opponent he's still a 2550 beater who can +1 into a blanket Forbidden Lance, plus if he doesn't need to keep the material he can do this twice. Ophion will definitely be alot less useful but will not suck.
I meant to say Verz actually. Ophion is a good card, but when the meta eventually shifts to the point where Ophion doesn't shut down key cards in the opposing deck, then they become less powerful as a result. The only reason Verz was even considered a Tier 1 deck (now definitely a high Tier 2) was because Ophion is crippling to Prophecy and Dragon Rulers. But now Prophecy seems to be favoring the Priestlessness build, while Dragon Rulers continue to evolve and implement new tech like Psi-Blocker and such to overcome it.

And then, there are upcoming decks, like the Bujins for instance, that are a very difficult matchup for Verz to beat. While decks we already have, like Madolche, Gadgets, and even Harpies, are pretty good in general, and are completely unaffected by Ophion.

I guess it was too harsh to say that Verz will suck in upcoming formats. It's more like it just simply won't be as good if Ophion has no power over the other meta decks. That being said, the focus from JoTL and onwards can be more about Master Key Beetle, who of course, pairs beautifully with Safe Zone, Vanity's Emptiness, and a later card, Mistake.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:17 PM   #18
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Can't see it being touched. Even with the lock out, some decks have out to it (Fate, Pleiades), and 66 will be out for less then 1 month before the ban list... No, they won't touch the lock.
About Evilswarm in general, well, they didn't win the European. There are other decks out there that nees a serious touch (mermail, dragon and spellbook), and I don't think Evilswarm is one go them.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:23 PM   #19
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What will mistake do for lswarms besides being a trap version of thunderking?
Mistake shuts down decks that search a lot, and typically those decks are pretty good. Like the meta for example, all have searching capabilities in some form or fashion.

Prophecy: All about it.
Dragon Rulers: When they're banished.
Mermails: Abyssteus, Abysspike, and Abyssmegalo, Dragoons
Fire Fist: Tenki
Evilswarm: Infection, Ophion, ROTA

So it stands to reason, that if a deck wants to call itself relevant and have the possibility of being in the meta game, then it needs to have consistency, and search power is the main way that a deck word achieve that. Even lesser decks like Gadgets, are all about it as well.

Mistake can shut all of that down, putting those same decks at a great disadvantage, especially if they're very reliant on searching out their cards. While Mistake will clearly be a very popular Side Deck card, Verz has access to Master Key Beetle , who can protect it, and make it even more threatening. It can't stop special summons from the deck like Deck Lockdown can, but nonetheless it is still just as good.

Continuous S/T, well a few of them anyways, are utterly amazing, and can be extremely helpful when it comes to beating your opponent. But their main weakness is that it can be eventually popped with MST, Heavy Storm, or some other type of destruction effect. And since this is still a 3 MST format, it isn't the most difficult thing to do. But since Beetle can protect it, that's where the potential lies.

Basically, any powerful S/T that Beetle can provide protection for, as we've seen with Vanity and Safe Zone, is something to look out for.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:35 PM   #20
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Anyone who seriously thinks evilswarm of all decks should be hit IS bad (no way around it your bad) and should feel terrible.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:35 PM   #21
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Evilswarms don't really need a hit at all in my opinion, although if I was to hurt the deck, I'd say go for Forbidden Dress and Safe Zone. Hitting either or both of these to 2 or 1 will increase the number of outs there are to Ophion, and make Key Beetle locks less consistent, leading to more decks being able to handle the boss monsters, which are really the biggest and scariest part of facing the deck currently.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:02 PM   #22
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Evilswarms won't be hit at all. Most top decks have outs to Ophion, therefore, Evilswarm will be fine on the September Ban list.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:56 PM   #23
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Evilswarm aren't good enough to be hit.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:13 PM   #24
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If anything they will give verz more verocity with some old banned limited card coming back. They will barely touch dragon rulers and **** prophecy.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:12 PM   #25
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Maybe in a format they're consistently good, but when they're essentially only kinda good? No. One should hope not.

Random jank trumps the deck easy and Forbidden Dress means little when you can just run Ophion over afterwards.
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