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Old 05-24-2013, 02:18 PM   #726
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Well if the pots are becoming inconsistent, why not take them out for monsters? An extra Strike Ninja and maybe even adding back in simorgh or RDN

Either that or we can add more traps to help stun. Like adding in spell fragrances. Makes upstart more live, and with 4 spells? Anti spell would bother us even less.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:13 PM   #727
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Originally Posted by pikachuhunter View Post
For example: opening Hand 5 traps 1 duality. Play duality grab rota or hanzo. These openings happens a lot to me. Sometimes I even have an NAT in hand and grab an Upstart Golden Ninja.
Just want to share that
Trust me, it used to happen to me all the time. Since testing with the new ratios though, it's happened a lot less. Instead, I'll have options to do something with like Upstart, Kagetokage, 2 traps, and have POD -_-. Or something like Hanzo, Kagetokage, CoTH/Monster Reborn, etc. It absolutely kills opening Beetle plays and it would be really beneficial to have a trap instead more often since the changes. It was better when Hanzo was our undisputed best opening play, but it's really lost some of its synergy since that's no longer the case. Right now I'm testing without it to see if there are any major dips in consistency. I tried Reckless, but the deck relies on drawing to fuel Upstart. That's why I think I may forgo drawing completely and have something else, either Mind Crush or Mischief of the Yokai.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:16 PM   #728
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Often I have dead drawn duality, but other times it has saved my ass. Also, I cant wait to try out vaskii in this deck. It makes me excited.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:37 PM   #729
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Well if the pots are becoming inconsistent, why not take them out for monsters? An extra Strike Ninja and maybe even adding back in simorgh or RDN

Either that or we can add more traps to help stun. Like adding in spell fragrances. Makes upstart more live, and with 4 spells? Anti spell would bother us even less.
Any of the cards from our side deck I think would be the best option. It's between ASF, Mind Crush, and Mischief of the Yokai. All have good cases, and imo it's best to make your own choices as meta calls. Think of it like siding from game 1, whom would you want to be more prepared for? Personally I'm going to test with Mischief for its synergy with Upstart and how it messes with Dragon Rulers and Evilswarm. It's

@electricsoldier, Vaskii is good but I was frustrated in terms of spacing. It's so annoying how much planning/space dragon rulers take up. I had somewhat good results, the only thing is after the opening turn it becomes less and less likely to be pulled off.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:22 PM   #730
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It's still insane to me how much Kagetokage speeds this deck up.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:00 PM   #731
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Did some hardcore testing. 50 sample hands from shuffling IRL, taking down the results each time. This is the the rough data. Statistics below:

note: I'm not a stat-expert, but I do do my best. If you notice errors in my data/data interpretation, let me know. Pretty sure it's all on point though.

Quote:
Overall Statistics:
  • Times I could open to bring out Avian/Beetle/Both/King of the Feral Imps: 84% (42 out of 50 times)
  • Times I had a dead opening: 16% (8 out of 50 times)
  • Times PoD could’ve made dead opening live: 4% (2 out of 50 times)
    For only dead hands: 25% (2 out of 8)
  • Times PoD could have conflicted: 18% (9 out of 50)
    For hands that were live: 21% (9 out of 42)
  • Strike Ninja as Only Viable Opening (w/ Kagetokage, or NAT): 10% (5 out of 50)
  • Times opening resulted from cards other than Hanzo: 64% (32 out of 50 times)
    For hands that were live: 76% (32 out of 42 times)

Findings:

PoD is not needed anymore imo. It would have only helped 2 out of 50 times, where as 9 out of 50 it would directly conflict with a desired opening. Now, don't take this as me saying it is bad. I would never tell someone they are wrong for running it. But for me, I've drawn the conclusion that I no longer need it, especially with my playstyle becoming more and more reliant on Upstart to keep a constant stream of rank 4 plays.

Another interesting finding was that Hanzo was only solely responsible for 10 out of 42 live openings. This isn't saying I only opened with him that many times, but more so that those were the times he was the clear cut better choice for an opening without any additional help (such as Kagetokage, etc). In the other instances, I used some combination of him or Upstart, Kagetokage, and/or Strike to bring out Beetle, Avian, or both. There are also some alternate methods like discarding Avian with PWWB/milling with Lavalval Chain in order to revive it, or simply having a ninjitsu art and a ninja. Nonetheless, the testing made it apparent that Hanzo is not our only opening option, and at this point, he may not even necessarily be our best (at least not on his own).

All in all, I think the results support the recent changes we've made this week. The 3 Kagetokage and 2 Strike has proven imo that it boosts consistency, as opposed to detracting as some feared in regards to the second Strike. In fact, as stated, there were 5 openings (10%) that were directly made possible by the inclusion of Strike. Factoring him out would actually drop the percentage of live openings by 12%. Needless to say, it may sway some of the final naysayers lol.


Best opening hand: Kagetokage, RoTA, CoTH, Solemn Brigade, Fiendish
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Last edited by diabound777 : 05-24-2013 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:03 PM   #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabound777 View Post
Did some hardcore testing. 50 sample hands from shuffling IRL, taking down the results each time. This the the rough data:



  • Times I could open to bring out Avian/Beetle/Both/King of the Feral Imps: 84% (42 out of 50 times)
  • Times I had a dead opening: 16% (8 out of 50 times)
  • Times PoD could’ve made dead opening live: 4% (2 out of 50 times)
    For only dead hands: 25% (2 out of 8)
  • Times PoD could have conflicted: 18% (9 out of 50)
    For hands that were live: 21% (9 out of 42)
  • Strike Ninja as Only Viable Opening (w/ Kagetokage, or NAT): 10% (5 out of 50)
  • Times opening resulted from cards other than Hanzo: 64% (32 out of 50 times)
    For hands that were live: 76% (32 out of 42 times)
What did you take out to main the Yokai's?
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:17 PM   #733
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What did you take out to main the Yokai's?
PoD. That's also how I was able to factor the times PoD would help/hinder my opening hands.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:23 PM   #734
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I don't always have to OTK with an Ancient Forest on the field, but when I do, I use Zerofyne. I have a budget sideboard and he was running Safe Zone stall and jazz.

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Old 05-24-2013, 06:32 PM   #735
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Gimme a main deck answer for Prophecy.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:34 PM   #736
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Gimme a main deck answer for Prophecy.
Shock Master :-p.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:37 PM   #737
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Shock Master :-p.
That's... disappointing...

I hate that deck so much.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:42 PM   #738
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That's... disappointing...

I hate that deck so much.
Lol, I don't run into them much so I may be a tad desensitized. In my most recent encounter, I didn't draw EEV or Anti-Spell game 2 or 3 after siding. Instead, I won game 1 and 3 with Shock Master. Mind Crush does go a long way in that match up though. To me, it's a competition between Mischief and Mind Crush for those two main deck slots, with Mischief having a slight edge for the synergy with Upstart and being more effective against Dragons. If you're really worried about Prophecy though, you can use the slots for ASF.
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I'm really stepping up my game, these ******* better start paying me for this. Can't get no more free randy!

Last edited by diabound777 : 05-24-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:02 PM   #739
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hey diabound, random thought.. what about using Good Goblin Housekeeping over duality. 3 of them could get rid of avians or Kagetokage in hand or atleast make king active again. it could also work well with upstart being its a great trap to discard.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:04 PM   #740
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Since I cannot find an extra Strike Ninja irl, i think i might just main an evilswarm thunderbird in its place. What else might work?
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:09 PM   #741
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Since I cannot find an extra Strike Ninja irl, i think i might just main an evilswarm thunderbird in its place. What else might work?
You saying you need a Strike Ninja?
I should have 1 laying around here somewhere.
I can chevk if youd like.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:11 PM   #742
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You saying you need a Strike Ninja?
I should have 1 laying around here somewhere.
I can chevk if youd like.
Well, my big tournament is tomorrow. But, for next week perhaps. That would be amazing of you.

Additional Comment:

You know something i just thought of? We should make our own team here.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:23 PM   #743
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hey diabound, random thought.. what about using Good Goblin Housekeeping over duality. 3 of them could get rid of avians or Kagetokage in hand or atleast make king active again. it could also work well with upstart being its a great trap to discard.
This may work, but it seems a tad slow for it to actually get going imo. The first 1 is pretty much only good for Upstart fodder or a -1. I like Mischief because not only is it best suited for Upstart fodder, but it is anti-meta in every sense of the word right now. Being able to activate it during your opponent's turn >____. Pretty much forces them to either wait, leaving themselves vulnerable, or purposefully waste an xyz set up in order to bait you into using it. When you actually set it, it's even more devastating.


@Electric Soldier, what do you mean?
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:27 PM   #744
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Like, a team. Not exactly sure how else to put it. A Yu-Gi-Oh team.

Additional Comment:

Teams that do team wars and stuff.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:30 PM   #745
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Like, a team. Not exactly sure how else to put it. A Yu-Gi-Oh team.

Additional Comment:

Teams that do team wars and stuff.
I more so meant the purpose I guess. It would be kind of weird being on a team of people all using basically the same deck lol. Plus, I think a few of the posters here are in teams on this forum already.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:32 PM   #746
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I more so meant the purpose I guess. It would be kind of weird being on a team of people all using basically the same deck lol. Plus, I think a few of the posters here are in teams on this forum already.
Well, I am sure people here can use other decks, so the mono-deck thing might be nonexistant.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:35 PM   #747
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Well, I am sure people here can use other decks, so the mono-deck thing might be nonexistant.
Lol, I'd hope so. But yea, I know I wouldn't really be able to since I'm already on a team on here and DN. Other people might be interested though.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:18 PM   #748
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Well, my big tournament is tomorrow. But, for next week perhaps. That would be amazing of you.

Additional Comment:

You know something i just thought of? We should make our own team here.
Alright ill check around my binders, I know I have one somewhere. Lol

And good luck tomorrow.

Last edited by BPortugal : 05-24-2013 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:31 PM   #749
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Alright ill check around my binders, I know I have one somewhere. Lol

And good luck tomorrow.
would you need compensation for the Strike Ninja?
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:40 PM   #750
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This may work, but it seems a tad slow for it to actually get going imo. The first 1 is pretty much only good for Upstart fodder or a -1. I like Mischief because not only is it best suited for Upstart fodder, but it is anti-meta in every sense of the word right now. Being able to activate it during your opponent's turn >____. Pretty much forces them to either wait, leaving themselves vulnerable, or purposefully waste an xyz set up in order to bait you into using it. When you actually set it, it's even more devastating.


@Electric Soldier, what do you mean?
In my testing, Mischief has been the best replacement for POD...I've also been throwing around the idea of triple CED, but Mischief pluses in terms of intellect once it's dropped...period. If I set it, it's a hell of a thing to get over; if I use it for Upstart fodder early on, my opp becomes very, very wary to XYZing, especially once they see a Fiendish/CED/PWWB pop up.

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Well if the pots are becoming inconsistent, why not take them out for monsters? An extra Strike Ninja and maybe even adding back in simorgh or RDN

Either that or we can add more traps to help stun. Like adding in spell fragrances. Makes upstart more live, and with 4 spells? Anti spell would bother us even less.
Simorgh and RDN are simply not proactive main cards anymore; Simorgh is only good against certain matchups (resummoning Avian usually becomes a priority and happens at least once in a decent matchup), and RDN is too slow...for now. Anti-Spell hasn't really supported itself unless sided for a reason, because it also isn't proactive. The deck has shifted from reactive stun to proactive we-will-kill-you-so-fast anti-EVERYTHING so that we don't have a reason to lose; we always have card advantage, always have a line of negation, and always have a follow up. RDN, Simorgh, and Anti-Spell no longer fit into that category and as such are only useful for siding. Plus 3 Strike Ninja is just a bit...too much. I usually search them all through upstarts/hanzos anyway. the only reason to have a third would be simply to increase openings w/ Kagetokage, but we'd usually rather want hanzo for that anyway...another trap (like Mischief) would be much better in the main deck.
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