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Old 04-13-2013, 05:11 AM   #1
Intelii
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Arrow Kagetokage.

If I summon a Tin Golfish (or Marauding Captain for that matter) and my opponent chains Fiendish Chain to its effect, am I able to add Kagetokage to that chain as Chain Link 3?
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:15 AM   #2
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no, you can only chose to activate Kagetokage as CL2 in segoc to tin/marauding or not to activate it.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:16 AM   #3
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Thanks, I would get to do so before the activation of Fiendish Chain?
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:20 AM   #4
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yes, you declare to activate both monster effect (tin & Kagetokage) before asking your opponent's response.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:28 AM   #5
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Goood thanks. I get so many people just activating chain when I say "tinfish eff" then complaining when I want to use kageotkage as CL 2.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:37 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Intelii View Post
Goood thanks. I get so many people just activating chain when I say "tinfish eff" then complaining when I want to use kageotkage as CL 2.
When you activate an effect, you always pass priority (although I believe I should use another word nowadays) to your opponent before chaining anything else yourself; in this case, Tin Goldfish > Fiendish Chain > Kagetokage would be the only right option.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:43 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Misdreavus View Post
When you activate an effect, you always pass priority (although I believe I should use another word nowadays) to your opponent before chaining anything else yourself; in this case, Tin Goldfish > Fiendish Chain > Kagetokage would be the only right option.
Trigger effects activate before non-triggers.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:58 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Neonian View Post
Trigger effects activate before non-triggers.
Which is why Torrential Tribute could be activated on the summon of Tin Goldfish before asking for the opponent's response as well... It cannot because the opponent cannot check whether the conditions of the (optional) trigger effect are met and as such can only be activated after the opponent choses whether to respond.

I'll glady invite you to prove me wrong, but this asks for an alternate (or "because Konami said so") ruling; I'll link here the common rulings for SEGOC.

Kagetokage can only be activated in (1) an open games state or when (2) the opponent has passed priority (I know this word may no longer be used, but Konami didn't provide us a good alternative). This means its summon can go on chain link 1 without the opponent interrupting, but this changes when another effect is triggered on normal summon.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:13 AM   #9
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kagetokage can never be activated in open state obviously, it can only be activated on closed state after its trigger met.

there is something called SEGOC (you can search Q&A for details), multiple trigger effects who have their effect activated on the same time will always be put in chain before any other effect can be added into.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:25 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by poemi View Post
kagetokage can never be activated in open state obviously, it can only be activated on closed state after its trigger met.

there is something called SEGOC (you can search Q&A for details), multiple trigger effects who have their effect activated on the same time will always be put in chain before any other effect can be added into.
I was under the impression that Konami considered the game state "after a summon that does not start a chain" still open, as the turn player may still decide to use quick effect, but it turns out there's no name for this game state... Anyway, I know how SEGOC works dear, but I'd say it does not apply to Kagetokage because it is in the hand, or to Torrential Tribute (from my previous example) because it is set: it will only apply to card effects that trigger automatically (even if they're optional) and can be confirmed by both players. I'm willing to believe you - I really am - but only if you can explain to me how Torrential Tribute is any different from Kagetokage as a "card that can be activated when a certain condition is met".
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:45 AM   #11
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Multiple triggers goes in chain; this way, you can summon goldfish, then since you can activate both triggers atm, you can order them in a chain. You can only activate Kagetokage as chain link 1, so the order of the chain would be:

NS tin ->
chain 1 kagetokare; chain 2 tin; pass prority
Opp responses: chain 3 Fiendish Chain, if he wants.

Note1: If you call tin eff as chain 1, you can't chain 2 Kagetokage.
Note2: You opp can't warning Kagetokage atm.

Kinda a similar scenario to "magician chain 1 factory chain 2 LOL no warning gayz" and "mew Fewille->gelato; warwolf chain 1 gelato chain 2".

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misdreavus View Post
I was under the impression that Konami considered the game state "after a summon that does not start a chain" still open, as the turn player may still decide to use quick effect, but it turns out there's no name for this game state... Anyway, I know how SEGOC works dear, but I'd say it does not apply to Kagetokage because it is in the hand, or to Torrential Tribute (from my previous example) because it is set: it will only apply to card effects that trigger automatically (even if they're optional) and can be confirmed by both players. I'm willing to believe you - I really am - but only if you can explain to me how Torrential Tribute is any different from Kagetokage as a "card that can be activated when a certain condition is met".
Kagetokage triggers in the hand; you reveal it, so it becomes a "public knowledge" card, then start the chain as any other card; it doesn't matter if they are in the field, hand, graveyard or RFP Zone, as long as they triggers are met at the same time: SEGOC.

Hoping it helps, Dear ^^
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I have learned through my vast experience as a yugioh player and a math teacher that the laws of probability simply do not apply to yugioh and the power of the cards far outweighs all mathematical laws.

Last edited by DarKngL : 04-13-2013 at 07:46 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misdreavus View Post
I was under the impression that Konami considered the game state "after a summon that does not start a chain" still open, as the turn player may still decide to use quick effect, but it turns out there's no name for this game state... Anyway, I know how SEGOC works dear, but I'd say it does not apply to Kagetokage because it is in the hand, or to Torrential Tribute (from my previous example) because it is set: it will only apply to card effects that trigger automatically (even if they're optional) and can be confirmed by both players. I'm willing to believe you - I really am - but only if you can explain to me how Torrential Tribute is any different from Kagetokage as a "card that can be activated when a certain condition is met".
take a look again at the konami chart
first you summon something (tin goldfish) on open state. you already know summon is not starting a chain, so you should know that you will took the left path.
does this summon trigger something? the answer is yes, both tin and Kagetokage are triggered by this action (summon), so you activate both following SEGOC rule.
now you redirected to D, where fiendish (or anything) can be added to the chain.

Kagetokage and such is something that triggered by the summon (see yelow box), if nothing triggered then usually torrent is activated on B (on your own) or C (by opponent).
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:28 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by poemi View Post
take a look again at the konami chart
first you summon something (tin goldfish) on open state. you already know summon is not starting a chain, so you should know that you will took the left path.
does this summon trigger something? the answer is yes, both tin and Kagetokage are triggered by this action (summon), so you activate both following SEGOC rule.
now you redirected to D, where fiendish (or anything) can be added to the chain.

Kagetokage and such is something that triggered by the summon (see yelow box), if nothing triggered then usually torrent is activated on B (on your own) or C (by opponent).
Hmmm... You're right; still wondering why DevPro lets my opponent chain to my summon of Goldfish every time, when I want to summon Kagetokage... I admit defeat

One last question: Kagetokage can be activated on a higher chain link, can't it?
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:40 AM   #14
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I don't see why Kagetokage can't be Chain Link 2 or higher. What is the difference between Tin Goldfish's effect and Kagetokage's effect which allows Tin Golfish to activate as a Chain Link 2 or higher?
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:42 AM   #15
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I don't see why Kagetokage can't be Chain Link 2 or higher. What is the difference between Tin Goldfish's effect and Kagetokage's effect which allows Tin Golfish to activate as a Chain Link 2 or higher?
I'd say there isn't any and you may choose in which order to resolve the effect, but it turns out you shouldn't take me too seriously today
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:06 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Intelii View Post
I don't see why Kagetokage can't be Chain Link 2 or higher. What is the difference between Tin Goldfish's effect and Kagetokage's effect which allows Tin Golfish to activate as a Chain Link 2 or higher?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding Kagetokage, I'm not sure, anyways . . . I remember something about warwolf as chain link 2 . . . or it was double warwolf? . . . I don't remember correctly, sorry for the trouble, guyz ^^

I will be chaining Kagetokage as chain link 1 anyways, it's like "lol u can't warning me" xD

@missy: Devpro had several issues with their programation as any other YGO emulator; I remember that game when it don't let me chain first magician and then factory; it chain first factory, then magician and he warning'd me, and I lost that duel . . . DN ftw?
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I have learned through my vast experience as a yugioh player and a math teacher that the laws of probability simply do not apply to yugioh and the power of the cards far outweighs all mathematical laws.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:18 AM   #17
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whenever trigger effects goes segoc you follow the rule (many thread on Q&A already cover this).
Both tin and Kagetokage is optional trigger effect and triggered on the same time. So you can choose the order as you like (tin->kage or kage->tin can be chosen).
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:21 AM   #18
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding Kagetokage, I'm not sure, anyways . . . I remember something about warwolf as chain link 2 . . . or it was double warwolf? . . . I don't remember correctly, sorry for the trouble, guyz ^^
I think what you remember is the restriction all special-summon-from-your-hand-when-a-certain-condition-is-met-monsters have, which is that you can always only activate one of them, even if you have multiple T.G. Warwolf, Naturia Cosmobeet, Kagetokage or any similar cards in your hand.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:29 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by poemi View Post
whenever trigger effects goes segoc you follow the rule (many thread on Q&A already cover this).
Both tin and Kagetokage is optional trigger effect and triggered on the same time. So you can choose the order as you like (tin->kage or kage->tin can be chosen).
I know, but I remember T.G. times when double warwolf made some troubles about rulings vs SEGOC.

Anyways, thanks for the advice

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I think what you remember is the restriction all special-summon-from-your-hand-when-a-certain-condition-is-met-monsters have, which is that you can always only activate one of them, even if you have multiple T.G. Warwolf, Naturia Cosmobeet, Kagetokage or any similar cards in your hand.
Yup, it makes some troubles here a time ago in a regional (2012), but it was easily solved thanks to .:Ni-san:. n_n
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I have learned through my vast experience as a yugioh player and a math teacher that the laws of probability simply do not apply to yugioh and the power of the cards far outweighs all mathematical laws.

Last edited by DarKngL : 04-13-2013 at 09:29 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:35 AM   #20
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Ooh, okay, thanks. Also with respect to Solemn Warning, could they not just warning your summon if they suspect (or expect in the case of gadgets) that you have Kagetokage? Anyway, thanks for clearing this up .
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:41 AM   #21
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Ooh, okay, thanks. Also with respect to Solemn Warning, could they not just warning your summon if they suspect (or expect in the case of gadgets) that you have Kagetokage? Anyway, thanks for clearing this up .
A chain can never be interfered, so if Kagetokage is placed on chain link 1, the opponent has no chance to respond to its effect. They can however respond to its summon with Torrential Tribute or Trap Hole, because the last thing to happen when the chain is resolved was the summon of Kagetokage. As such, when you normal summon Red Gadget (for example), putting Kagetokage on chain link 2 may be preferred: the opponent could activate Solemn Warning, but is unable to whipe the field with Torrential Tribute, as the last thing to happen is adding a Yellow Gadget to your hand.

Additional Comment:

They will obviously activate Torrential Tribute when you try to XYZ summon of course...
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Intelii View Post
Ooh, okay, thanks. Also with respect to Solemn Warning, could they not just warning your summon if they suspect (or expect in the case of gadgets) that you have Kagetokage? Anyway, thanks for clearing this up .
They will, I'm only saying that is kinda lulzy 'cuz for me it's usually magician + factory instead to kage+tin, and I'm like "pfffft LOL" when it happens
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I have learned through my vast experience as a yugioh player and a math teacher that the laws of probability simply do not apply to yugioh and the power of the cards far outweighs all mathematical laws.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:47 AM   #23
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Yes I get that, but they could just warning your normal summon.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:51 AM   #24
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Yes I get that, but they could just warning your normal summon.
If you are referring to my reference to wind up's, not when I'm playing it from floaters that was already on the field

If about the gadgets; they WILL warning either the normal summon or the xyz ^^
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I have learned through my vast experience as a yugioh player and a math teacher that the laws of probability simply do not apply to yugioh and the power of the cards far outweighs all mathematical laws.

Last edited by DarKngL : 04-13-2013 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #25
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What would the chain look like if you chose to activate goldfish effect upon its normal summon with Kagetokage and then any gadget ? How does gadgets not lose timing? Just wanted to see a layout of the chain. Thanks in advance
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