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Old 02-09-2013, 03:38 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by RopeFish View Post
hunders

constellar if they go nuts with the normal summons

maybe evilswarm after castor and cercyon?
If you summon 3 hunder monsters and overlay for shock master then you're at a -2 immediately. And if you use Thunder Seahorse to plus then you can't special summon that turn.

Constellars haven't even been released yet. As far as I know they don't plus like gadgets when they're summoned. Instant -2 when you use shock master. And an array of traps can get rid of it.

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maybe evilswarm after castor and cercyon?
Still minusing hard....still.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:43 PM   #27
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Sure Gadgets are mindless +1s. But Konami knew this when they were making it, and moderated accordingly. Ever noticed their low stats? Tell me exactly what 1400 runs over this format. Not much. Against a field of TKing + backrow, Gadgets fold over and die. Hard.

Gadgets are not broken at all. They have a simple +1 function, backed up by 1 for 1 removal that attempts to create a simplified gamestate in which the deck thrives.

The deck has no massive combo play, outside of Tinplate + Gadget, which can be countered with by most main decked Traps. It is not an Evolzar Laggia. It is not a Divine Judgment. It is not a Adreus.

In fact, a first turn 1500 and backrow already creates a gamestate which Gadgets by themselves cannot get over. To get over a beater, one must resort to the Machina's, since no one plays Smashing Ground anymore. In the Machina's, we have Gearframe, which admittedly is kinda crazy. We then have Fortress, which does very little, since BTH's accumulate until he hits the field, as BTH is not going to hit any of the main deck, and is usually reserved for the Fortress.

The Gadgets do not have an exceedingly overpowered strategy at all, compared to some of the decks around.

In fact, tell me now how you expect to get out a Shock Master in one turn with Offering gone. List all the possible methods. I would be interested to see how many you get.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:47 PM   #28
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And an array of traps can get rid of it.
shock and ignition xyzs in general are not a problem if u have set traps to deal with them.

it's really dumb that shock and other xyzs of its ilk still get effects if they're not face up, but the synchros were errata'd with that restriction
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:47 PM   #29
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Gadgets were designed to be an experiment on Konami's part; Low attack floaters on summon, and, to be honest, they haven't broken the meta anytime recently. Let them be.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:49 PM   #30
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Ban it. It is too OP.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:49 PM   #31
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shock and ignition xyzs in general are not a problem if u have set traps to deal with them.

it's really dumb that shock and other xyzs of its ilk still get effects if they're not face up, but the synchros were errata'd with that restriction
Don't forget the controller of shock master also can't use whatever is called...it's a bigger deal than it seems.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:51 PM   #32
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Funny how we listed the method before. Double Summon + Tinplate Goldfish + Gadget 1 + Gadget 2.

The problem is? This is how they usually do it successfully, not with Offering, which is slower and less reliable.(it's great for later, but terrible for first turn shenanigans)

It can also be done by sending a Gadget to the graveyard, and Reborning it, and of course, Tinplate Goldfish to get another one out. Yes, UO is the only one that makes it a +0 Xyz Summon. Except it happens far less due to UO being hyper easy to kill and rarely going off, compared to Tinplate and Double Summon going off more often.(how odd, right?)

And nobody called the Gadgets broken, just that they were hitworthy. To 2, at the very least.(this stops a lot of their OTK power since they lack speed and resources)
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:51 PM   #33
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I use prophecy

Shock is fine
The decks that spam him turn one are not aka wind ups
Having an out against solitare exodus del that takes 1-2 turns to set up is fine for da game
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Hootcake banishes the monster as a cost. If gaios or veiler or fiendish negates you then you will not be able to try again

just please stop posting Fuzzy, this is solid evidence that you have no idea how to actually play the game.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:56 PM   #34
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Sure Gadgets are mindless +1s. But Konami knew this when they were making it, and moderated accordingly. Ever noticed their low stats? Tell me exactly what 1400 runs over this format. Not much. Against a field of TKing + backrow, Gadgets fold over and die. Hard.

Gadgets are not broken at all. They have a simple +1 function, backed up by 1 for 1 removal that attempts to create a simplified gamestate in which the deck thrives.

The deck has no massive combo play, outside of Tinplate + Gadget, which can be countered with by most main decked Traps. It is not an Evolzar Laggia. It is not a Divine Judgment. It is not a Adreus.

In fact, a first turn 1500 and backrow already creates a gamestate which Gadgets by themselves cannot get over. To get over a beater, one must resort to the Machina's, since no one plays Smashing Ground anymore. In the Machina's, we have Gearframe, which admittedly is kinda crazy. We then have Fortress, which does very little, since BTH's accumulate until he hits the field, as BTH is not going to hit any of the main deck, and is usually reserved for the Fortress.

The Gadgets do not have an exceedingly overpowered strategy at all, compared to some of the decks around.

In fact, tell me now how you expect to get out a Shock Master in one turn with Offering gone. List all the possible methods. I would be interested to see how many you get.
I'm not saying that Gadgets are broken and need to be dealt with, or that they don't have counters -- I am saying that Gadgets are poor design, and that mindless plussing will lead to problems, whether it is by sheer simplification with endless waves of Gadgets and removal or by costless Extra Deck summons where they should be costed.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:59 PM   #35
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Okay so 2 Methods. Compare this to you are suggesting Tinplate + Gadget + Double Summon.

Summon Tinplate, SS Gadget, Search: +1, 4 cards
Activate Double Summon: -1, 3 cards.
Summon Gadget: +1, 4 cards.
Overlay all 3 for Shock Master: -2, 2 Cards.

So you go -1. For a card which only truly shines if it is summoned on the first turn of the duel. I mean, you won't see me doing this onto 2 backrow.

My point is, the most common method of summoning Shock Master is an insta -1, and if you get rid of it, Gadget player is screwed. He has drained his hand to perform this move, if you beat it, he loses.



Additional Comment:

Gadgets by themselves may be bad design, but have poor stats and are very slow.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:41 PM   #36
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I honestly have a soft spot for Shock Master. He helps keep Altwin.dek in check by existing.

I gotta agree with Redshift. Hit its enablers, since the enablers also do other stupid things.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:06 PM   #37
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Off the top of my head decks that can abuse Shockmaster

Macro Rabbit
Wind-Up
Fire Fist
Inzektor
Noble Knight
Heraldics
Gadgets
Six Sam
Burning Knucklers (When they arrive)
Evilswarm
Evols

Probably forgot some but a slew of them still see play or are starting to see play.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:12 PM   #38
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Six Sams can only do that because of Gateway.

Gadgets can only do that because of their own ability, and usually minus to do so.

Evolz don't plus that much, so aren't that great using it.

Any Rabbit build requires another summon to pull it off, which isn't that likely anymore.(unless you somehow could make a(nother) Leviair and overlay Rabbit. And yes, I've had to overlay using Rabbit to win a duel)

I don't see where Shock Master being used at 1 makes any of those a problem at all. If they could abuse multiple copies(of which a limit alone would stop that problem), sure, but how many use multiple ones?

Not the problem right now. Nor is its effect actually broken.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:21 PM   #39
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But, I can't destroy those cards by battle like I can shock master. On the flip side, I don't need to summon 3 monsters to use those cards. I just have to activate them where the game mechanics say I can. Have you read the cards? lol. We all know why they're banned, and we all know why shock master isn't banned.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:29 PM   #40
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Six Sams can only do that because of Gateway.

Gadgets can only do that because of their own ability, and usually minus to do so.

Evolz don't plus that much, so aren't that great using it.

Any Rabbit build requires another summon to pull it off, which isn't that likely anymore.(unless you somehow could make a(nother) Leviair and overlay Rabbit. And yes, I've had to overlay using Rabbit to win a duel)

I don't see where Shock Master being used at 1 makes any of those a problem at all. If they could abuse multiple copies(of which a limit alone would stop that problem), sure, but how many use multiple ones?

Not the problem right now. Nor is its effect actually broken.
Sorry I wasn't saying Shock Master is broken far from it just extremely overpowered is how I meant it.

I lost count of how many times I saw someone go into Shock Master today at a special win a box tournament.

Comparing Shock Master to those 3 cards is relevant and look where they all ended up plus knowing Konami logic they will release a card in one of the next few sets that summons Shock Master freely without any problems.

The card is just as Overpowered as alot of cards are this day and that is due to power creep.

I just shudder at the thought of Evilswarm getting out Ophion and Shockmaster fairly easily.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:31 PM   #41
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So you think shutting down a whole deck is fair and balanced then?

So say your playing Fire Fists and your opponent goes into Shock Master calls Monster Effects....you have a hand of Monsters and no way over Shock Master that is fair is it?

Shock Master is also the key card to a combo we all know and hate called the Shock Lock sure you can hit the cards that make it so busted but what about decks other than wind up?

Inzektors (increase Levels to 4 and go from there)
Noble Knights (Artorigus or Medraut + 2 Gawayn)
Heraldics (Special Eale with 2 Others on field from Heraldy Reborn and your normal summon)

Also think about his do you really want Shockmaster around at same time as Ophion?

Summon Ophion and Shockmaster thats it GG.
If you summon Luster Dragon and your opponents hand is full of monsters with 1800 attack or less monster, do you lose?


Shock isn't the issue anyway, it's the spam that's the issue.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:41 PM   #42
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Sorry I wasn't saying Shock Master is broken far from it just extremely overpowered is how I meant it.
...Overpowered doesn't sound Broken to me. Just at best limitworthy.

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I lost count of how many times I saw someone go into Shock Master today at a special win a box tournament.
I see it all the time.

Quote:
Comparing Shock Master to those 3 cards is relevant and look where they all ended up plus knowing Konami logic they will release a card in one of the next few sets that summons Shock Master freely without any problems.
You can already do that. They're called Gadgets and Madolche.

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The card is just as Overpowered as alot of cards are this day and that is due to power creep.
Yay. If it was used at more than one, I'd limit it. But almost nobody does, so it's fine right now.

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I just shudder at the thought of Evilswarm getting out Ophion and Shockmaster fairly easily.
And I still don't. It's a good card, but overrated. Hit the spam engine.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #43
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If you use all of your Double Summons and Tin Plate Goldfishes to summon Shock Master you won't have any follow up plays if your opponent has a way to get past Shock Master. You know besides having 3+ Gadgets in hand. So unless you win that turn or put your opponent into a state where they just cannot win then you blew all of your cards on one explosive play.

I love Smashing Ground/Soul Taker.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:00 PM   #44
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hunders

constellar if they go nuts with the normal summons

maybe evilswarm after castor and cercyon?
I can't name a game where I've ever used Shock in Verz or Constellar. It's one of those things that pops up once in a blue moon as a useful play.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:07 PM   #45
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It should probably go to 0.

I used to think hitting the cards that made it so easily like magician, gateway, offering, etc. should be the ones getting hit, however there will most likely be future decks that will be able to make it easily and abuse him.

Not saying magician, gateway, and offering hits are bad, but shock master should go to 0 to prevent any form of future brokenness.

Shock master can stay only if konami hits the decks & cards that make its so easily and does a complete meta nuke where 3 lvl 4's would require time and dedication.

Considering how that's probably not going to happen, shock master to 0.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:21 PM   #46
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Banning shockmaster is stupid. Its the cards that put it out that are broken.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:26 PM   #47
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Banning shockmaster is stupid. Its the cards that put it out that are broken.
Knowing how the game works and judging off of past examples, the game probably will move towards ways of summoning this easier and easier. It's kinda like the Trish of this era. It's supposed to have a fair cost and all but Konami is going to keep making it easier and easier to summon until it needs to be hit.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:27 PM   #48
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To me Shockmaster is balanced, it stops your plays too and it costs 3 materials to get out. Knock it to 1, most decks won't put more than 1 in their extra deck anyway.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:32 PM   #49
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Its not the summoning thats the problem; its the summoning while plussing doing it. And it doesn't matter if Shockmaster exists, as long as you can summon while plussing, things will be broken. Why? Because cards is the only resource the game has, that and monsters on the field. Everything else is free. When you can get summons for free, and cards for free, then guess what. Everything is unbalanced. It doesn't particularly MATTER if its shockmaster; they'll just use Hunter, or Oroborous, or an equivalent for the newer-than-wind-ups deck. Shockmaster just happens to be the currently most efficient way of turning advantage for you into protection from the opponent. But due to its very nature, there will always be a way of turning advantage for you into either protection from the opponent, or just a plain old win. So the cards that summon all that **** will always be broken. Shockmaster or no shockmaster. Its the whole "ban wind-up hunter" debate all over again.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:35 PM   #50
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Shockmaster wouldn't be as overpowered if he was harder to summon, currently his not that difficult to bring out in one turn with minimal set up.

Decks that can bring him out easily are likely to be hit by the next ban list, but given the overwhelming powercreep in yugioh he will likely become easier to abuse down the road.
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