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Old 01-18-2013, 08:35 PM   #1
Bleakdragon55
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Default Evilswarm Ophion- ways to beat this card

Quote:

Evilswarm Ophion

Rank 4/ DARK/ Dragon

2 Level 4 "lswarm" monsters
While this card is face-up on the field with Xyz Material, neither player can Special Summon a Level 5 or higher monster. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; add 1 "Infestation" Spell or Trap Card from your Deck to your hand.

ATK 2550/ DEF 1650
If you have been alive on the forums for the last couple of weeks, you should have heard the hype that is coming from the Evilswarms; particularly this card. In general, I would like to discuss ways to beat this card, as it is highly effective against many of the top decks. But first, let's discuss Why it's powerful.

This is highly effective for three reasons:

1) Shutting down certain decks

2) Ease of summoning

3) Infestation Pandemic Infection

First, let's discuss the main reason why the card is effective: High level monsters become near impossible to summon. This locks down any special summon for a level 5+ monster. That means no high level synchros or extra deck monsters. Many decks are highly affected by this clause, such as:

Agents
Karakuri
Machina-Gadget
Atlanteans (No Megalo)
Dark Worlds (to an extent)

any many more. For these decks, it is practically an auto-lost as they have no way to get over it. They might have some s/t, but those become ineffective as I show later.

Second of all, Ophion is dangerous because of how easy it is to bring out onto the field. Evilswarms typically variant into 2 decks; Rabbit and Pure. The rabbit variant normally runs 2 Rabbit, 3 Heliotrope, and 3 Sabersaurus(optional). This allows it to function as a new Dino Rabbit type deck, provding some strong lock-downs.

The other variant, Pure, focuses more on their double summoning capabilities. This is mostly done through Castor and Kerykeion; thus making the summon for Ophion quite easy. They also have Thunderbird, basically a stronger Wind-Up Rabbit, to keep the field advantage.

In short, Ophion will not be an issue for them to summon against you.

Finally, we come to another Evilswarm card that is searchable thanks to Ophion, and makes the first turn play almost impossible to get over.

Quote:

Infestation Pandemic Infection
Quick-Play spell card

This turn, all face-up "lswarm" monsters you currently control are unaffected by other Spell and Trap Cards.
Yep. They get a themed, field covering Forbidden Lance. Oh, and it's searchable by Ophion.

This basically means that if they first turn Ophion you, you won't be able to get over it with s/t. Furthermore, the deck is played like control, so there will be quite a bit of backrow to beat; thus it will be hard to gain tempo again; especially if you run a deck from above.



So, let's talk how to beat it. Here are some of my suggestions; you are more than welcome to post some of your own and I can add them to the OP.

1) Gem-Knight Pearl & Maestroke

If you are able to get 2 level 4's out quickly for a synchro summon, then Pearl or Maestroke might be an option for your extra deck. Pearl is currently the strongest and generic two-material monster available to us; allowing you to take out Ophion without any fuse; just a battle. He will also allow you to conquer almost any of their future plays, bar Dark Armed Dragon.

Maestroke is probably in your extra already, and it work just as well as it can flip down Ophion for you to attack. Keep in mind though, they do run pretty strong beaters (if it's Rabbit, then Heliotrope can run your over.). This is why I recommend Pearl over Maestroke; but run what can fit in your extra.

2) Book of Moon

A not as effective option thanks to their lance, but it does allow you to perform your summons if it is successful. At the very least it draws out their Pandemic early.

3) Effect Veiler/ Breakthrough Skill/ Skill Drain/ Fiendish Chain

Most notable are the first two; Veiler to prevent Rabbit from setting up Ophion or stopping the search. Breathrough will trigger the first Pandemic, and next turn you can hit it again. Drain depends on your deck, while Fiendish Chain will just sit there after they play Pandemic.

4) Prideful Roar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chikendancer View Post
I remember hearing somewhere that some OCG decks were side decking Prideful Roar as it gets around Infestation Pandemic Infection. Haven't had a chance to test it myself, but I could see it being versatile enough to work.
Quoting two people from this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGoemon View Post
You'd have to lance them before Roar is activated since it can't be used during damage calculation, which is when this activates.

One reason this is most likely used in the OCG is because Ophion is a constant threat and this bypasses Pandemic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebanlistsuxx View Post
to clear the confusion.

lance and most other cards that alter atk/def can be used in the damage step which comes before damage calculation. In damage calc lance and friends cannot be used.

pridful roar can be used during damage calculation due to its card text and therefore is quite some exception.
Essentially, they won't be able to use Pandemic after you play Prideful Roar. Sadly, it does cost some life points; but it can be most helpful.

5) General Monster Destroyers, for example:

Ryko
Snowman Eater
Smashing Ground
Dimensional Prison
etc etc etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by AhhGoodTimes View Post
As an Evilswarm player myself I can say that Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter, Snowman Eater, Night Assailant, etc are good counters against Evilswarm Ophion. Granted we're now siding Forbidden Dress to counter those counters but it's not like it's searchable like Infestation Pandemic Infection.
Keep in mind, some Evilswarm players are taking percautions if you use too many of these type of cards.

In general, Ophion will be a huge threat once it is released. What do you plan to do to counter it?
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:38 PM   #2
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As an Evilswarm player myself I can say that Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter, Snowman Eater, Night Assailant, etc are good counters against Evilswarm Ophion. Granted we're now siding Forbidden Dress to counter those counters but it's not like it's searchable like Infestation Pandemic Infection.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:42 PM   #3
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I remember hearing somewhere that some OCG decks were side decking Prideful Roar as it gets around Infestation Pandemic Infection. Haven't had a chance to test it myself, but I could see it being versatile enough to work.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chikendancer View Post
I remember hearing somewhere that some OCG decks were side decking Prideful Roar as it gets around Infestation Pandemic Infection. Haven't had a chance to test it myself, but I could see it being versatile enough to work.
Oh yes! I remember that now. I think I read it in single card discussions this week actually. I will add it to the OP.

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AhhGoodTimes View Post
As an Evilswarm player myself I can say that Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter, Snowman Eater, Night Assailant, etc are good counters against Evilswarm Ophion. Granted we're now siding Forbidden Dress to counter those counters but it's not like it's searchable like Infestation Pandemic Infection.
Interesting. I will add general monster destroyers to the Op.
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Last edited by Bleakdragon55 : 01-18-2013 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:48 PM   #5
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I love how Chaos Dragon, Hieratics and Junk Doppel auto scoop to this card.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fateric007 View Post
I love how Chaos Dragon, Hieratics and Junk Doppel auto scoop to this card.
It's sad, but true. I run karakuri myself; and I know that if wouldn't be able to take down one of their extra monsters they summoned with Kuick to summon a Gem-Knight Pearl or Maestroke; I would not be able to beat the deck easily.

Luckily, I do run Sazank in the side; which will help in this match-up.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:18 PM   #7
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i play karakuri but i main sazank, so i have a way of killing him.

I also side The Destroyer Of Dreams, aka Fossil Dyna. The thought of setting it against a field of Ophion and Laggia -in case of Verz Rabbit- seems SO TEMPTING.

Too bad SIM doesnt affect him though :'(
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSteele View Post
i play karakuri but i main sazank, so i have a way of killing him.

I also side The Destroyer Of Dreams, aka Fossil Dyna. The thought of setting it against a field of Ophion and Laggia -in case of Verz Rabbit- seems SO TEMPTING.

Too bad SIM doesnt affect him though :'(
Luckily it does stop the searching eff; as that effects activates.

Fossil Dyna can work as well! Just beware if they go into Dolkka!
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:27 PM   #9
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this guy becomes even more hellish running forbidden dress to get around monster destruction

temtempo works decently though, if he has no materials he cant block special summons, and getting out a single rank 3 isnt hard for a lot of decks, and then you are left with a 2200 beater that can instantly jump to 2700 if they pull another xyz to run over it
and being a quick effect, they cant pre-emptively dress on the summon response to stop you targeting it
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:47 PM   #10
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Hmm...... Electric Virus could work. As long as you can tribute Ophion after taking control.

Also, about your Castor vs Veiler: it doesn't work as Castor puts on a condition as soon as it is normal summoned successfully. Veiler can't stop it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:54 PM   #11
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Ophion shuts down my Karakuri Deck so hard. I have no means of killing it with spell and traps because of their high level Forbidden Lance. I sided Gigantes for easy Rank 4 summon with Karakuri Soldier to summon GKPearl/GGGCowboy.

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Old 01-18-2013, 09:54 PM   #12
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Gustos giggle at Ophion. Play Creature Swap. Infestation? Okay, lets mst whats left, and have you meet Plover/Diamond Dire Wolf/Musto. GG broski.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddash9 View Post
Gustos giggle at Ophion. Play Creature Swap. Infestation? Okay, lets mst whats left, and have you meet Plover/Diamond Dire Wolf/Musto. GG broski.
Agreed. A lot of noobs automatically assume "Gustos = Synchro deck = Ophion's *****" when in reality, Gustos are probably the least Synchro-reliant out of any Synchro deck.

However, keep in mind that most Evilswarm decks have Dimensional Fissure, Macro Cosmos and Soul Drain Mained and/or Sided. Not to mention Abyss Dweller in the Extra Deck. All four cards hurt the Gusto recruiter loop.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:04 PM   #14
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And thats why Gustos add in additional backrow hate/Fairy Wind to counter side. Verz are easy to beat in that deck if you save your backrow hate for macro/drain, and grind through everything else (cause its ALL chainables anyway).
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddash9 View Post
And thats why Gustos add in additional backrow hate/Fairy Wind to counter side. Verz are easy to beat in that deck if you save your backrow hate for macro/drain, and grind through everything else (cause its ALL chainables anyway).
Ahh I see. Being also a Gusto player I should've realized that lol.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AhhGoodTimes View Post
Ahh I see. Being also a Gusto player I should've realized that lol.
They also find the usual Verz Bahamut that follows not as painful either, which is the true nail in the coffin. Stall and Choke with Ophion, and when he dies, have bahamut take whatever LOVELY beatstick the opponent ran him over with.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:31 PM   #17
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Gagaga Cowboy is another option.
Depending on decks, there are other options like Lightning Plover, Sylphine the Cold Beast, Fire Fist Bear, Monarchs, Hornet, Heavy Infantry (with Armor Kappa or Pike/Sturge).
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:32 PM   #18
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When in doubt, there is always Morphing Jar #2.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #19
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Was also gonna go with fire fists, but a lot of Verz players do seem to prefer forbidden dress which screws bear, ryko, and night assilant out of a kill. Liberty at Last! Could work against dressers.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momoRX View Post
Constellars!!!
*drops pleidas* Warning or your toast.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:56 PM   #21
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u need two S/Ts to chain over the pandemic card, that's basically the only consistent way around it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fateric007 View Post
Junk Doppel auto scoop to this card.
???

junk doppel runs the ultimate counter to Ophion

Dark Diviner

it's level 4, and can match Ophion's attack

evilswarm rabbit has no answers to Diviner except Torrential Tribute
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:57 PM   #22
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Since when did Junk Doppel run that card? lol
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RopeFish View Post
u need two S/Ts to chain over the pandemic card, that's basically the only consistent way around it.



???

junk doppel runs the ultimate counter to Ophion

Dark Diviner

it's level 4, and can match Ophion's attack

evilswarm rabbit has no answers to Diviner except Torrential Tribute
Evilswarm Bahamut? Maindecked Compulsories? Evilswarm Ouroborus?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:20 PM   #24
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The simplest card would be Exiled Force. And it can be searched by RotA.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinhwa View Post
Also, about your Castor vs Veiler: it doesn't work as Castor puts on a condition as soon as it is normal summoned successfully. Veiler can't stop it.
None of that is true.

Effect Veiler will stop Evilswarm Castor's continuous effect from being applied.
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