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Old 12-03-2012, 01:01 AM   #1
Kenai
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Default Helios - The Primordial Sun

After seeing some championship results in the OCG, I was surprised to see a previously-thought-to-be below-par card in a Decklist; it was none other than Helios - The Primordial Sun.

Many people seem to forget that this is the monster that can be Special Summoned by activating Macro Cosmos. Why would you run it?

I came across to realize some of it's potential. It was being played in a (T)Hunder Deck, where many Level 4 LIGHT monsters are Summoned as a means to Xyz Summon.

In the TCG, many Decks are attempting to main Macro Cosmos. The aptly coined "Macro Rabbit" is one the these many Decks gaining popularity for it's effectiveness against the meta.

In an age of Xyz Summoning, could the advantage of Macro Cosmos be increased further by also providing Level 4 Xyz fodder? Would teching Helios - The Primordial Sun be too inconsistent for Decks that run Macro? Why?
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:16 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Kenai View Post
After seeing some championship results in the OCG, I was surprised to see a previously-thought-to-be below-par card in a Decklist; it was none other than Helios - The Primordial Sun.

Many people seem to forget that this is the monster that can be Special Summoned by activating Macro Cosmos. Why would you run it?

I came across to realize some of it's potential. It was being played in a (T)Hunder Deck, where many Level 4 LIGHT monsters are Summoned as a means to Xyz Summon.

In the TCG, many Decks are attempting to main Macro Cosmos. The aptly coined "Macro Rabbit" is one the these many Decks gaining popularity for it's effectiveness against the meta.

In an age of Xyz Summoning, could the advantage of Macro Cosmos be increased further by also providing Level 4 Xyz fodder? Would teching Helios - The Primordial Sun be too inconsistent for Decks that run Macro? Why?
An odd idea to be sure, but i cant help but feel that such a slot could always be dedicated to a better card.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:47 AM   #3
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^Basically. Good in theory, but drawing this card would just suck. The deck runs fine without it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:13 AM   #4
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A single Sun in a deck with 3 Macros sounds good. A free plus is a free plus.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:08 AM   #5
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A free LV 4 for synchro or xyz?
Sure,why not?
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:33 AM   #6
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In theory it sounds good, just need some people to actually test it. As for all the arguments with "it sucks to draw helios or the spot could be used for something better". LOOK AT DINO RABBIT. You play a bunny that fetches VANILLA monsters from your deck, and one of them only boast 1700 attack points. Does it suck to draw a Kabazauls? Aww hell yes, it does!
Now, I do realise that rabbit plays are alot more devastating than helios, and I also know that helios is worse to draw than Kabazauls, but the fact still remains that Kabazauls is a horrid draw, but it still sees play, so why couldn't helios also see play?
In a perfect scenario, someone with a macro rabbit deck should test it and come tell how it went, because let's face it, theoryOH does not always work IRL.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:49 AM   #7
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In theory it sounds good, just need some people to actually test it. As for all the arguments with "it sucks to draw helios or the spot could be used for something better". LOOK AT DINO RABBIT. You play a bunny that fetches VANILLA monsters from your deck, and one of them only boast 1700 attack points. Does it suck to draw a Kabazauls? Aww hell yes, it does!
Now, I do realise that rabbit plays are alot more devastating than helios, and I also know that helios is worse to draw than Kabazauls, but the fact still remains that Kabazauls is a horrid draw, but it still sees play, so why couldn't helios also see play?
In a perfect scenario, someone with a macro rabbit deck should test it and come tell how it went, because let's face it, theoryOH does not always work IRL.
I don't mind drawing Kabazauls that much actually. If I draw several vanillas first turn with some backrow, I tend to just set it with backrow. They tend to not attack it because they fear backrow or Sangan or something else. Follow it up next turn with a normal summon of another vanilla. It's not the End of the World drawing into Vanillas; with two Rabbit and two TGU, normal summoning with the vanillas you draw into tends to happen a lot more often than you'd think.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:55 AM   #8
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The biggest Problem with Helios though is that when you want to bring it out... Early game it's attack is pitiful so unless you are going to use it to Synchro or XYZ on that turn it really doesn't contribute to your strategy in any way.

And LATE game to bring it out you have to risk "Dead Drawing" it just for that chance of getting a large attack monster... Equally as underwhelming.

At least you can also Normal Summon it... Whooh!!!
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:58 AM   #9
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I've always been a fan of throwing a random Helios into Macro Decks.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:42 AM   #10
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Well if you don't want to draw helios you simply put only 2 of them in your deck and to me extra deck thinning is always good. In this case I would say it same as drawing into mali when you already have mali in grave.

I run it in my macro decks. Haven't made macro rabbit deck, but I like using it in my lightray macro.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:53 AM   #11
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daasianmang, can we agree that if you had drawn, say, a guaiba instead of a vanilla then you would probably be alot happier for the draw?
My purpose was not to bash rabbit with it having "bad draws", it was simply to show the naysayers of helios that if one can play six "bad draw" cards, then a seventh won't hurt that much, as you could use helios the same way you described (albeit not with it turning into an evolzar, though).
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:02 AM   #12
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No, if you don't want to draw it you only run 1. I don't think anyone would try putting 2 Helio in a deck that just techs 3 Macro.
It sounds like a decent enough idea but I'd like to see what actually happens. I suppose Macro, summon Helio, Rabbit into 2 Dinos, make Shockmaster, play some backrow would be fairly intimidating, especially if you could follow it up with an Evolzar next turn. If Laggia + Backrow + no grave isn't GG then adding Shockmaster probably would be.

Keep in mind that Macro can summon Helio from the hand or deck, so if you do draw it you don't necessarily have to waste it. Normal Vanilla, play Macro, summon Helio from hand might be resource intensive but you at least gain access to a bigger monster.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:30 AM   #13
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some people don t like LIGHT LV4?
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:04 AM   #14
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No, if you don't want to draw it you only run 1. I don't think anyone would try putting 2 Helio in a deck that just techs 3 Macro.
It sounds like a decent enough idea but I'd like to see what actually happens. I suppose Macro, summon Helio, Rabbit into 2 Dinos, make Shockmaster, play some backrow would be fairly intimidating, especially if you could follow it up with an Evolzar next turn. If Laggia + Backrow + no grave isn't GG then adding Shockmaster probably would be.

Keep in mind that Macro can summon Helio from the hand or deck, so if you do draw it you don't necessarily have to waste it. Normal Vanilla, play Macro, summon Helio from hand might be resource intensive but you at least gain access to a bigger monster.
I thought about this too; a quick Rank 4 Xyz Summon when you need it.

Curiously enough, I just came across a few OCG Dino Rabbit Decks that tech 1 Helios - The Primordial Sun. I think with a Deck as flexible as Rabbit, it may make a decent 1-of. I think some testing will have to ensue to determine whether or not a single Helios - The Primordial Sun is worth it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:09 PM   #15
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I used Helios as a free Xyz Material on DN many moons ago when I thought Macro Cosmos was the best thing ever (in a way, it still is).

Interesting to see an actual discussion about it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:38 PM   #16
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I used Helios as a free Xyz Material on DN many moons ago when I thought Macro Cosmos was the best thing ever (in a way, it still is).

Interesting to see an actual discussion about it.
Decklist? Just curious.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:40 PM   #17
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Decklist? Just curious.
I don't have it anymore (I delete decks from time to time), but now I wish I did.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:42 PM   #18
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Macro Cosmos + this + Cyber Valley = +1.
Still pretty situational.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:02 PM   #19
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wheres the decklists for the ocg players that tech this?
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:06 PM   #20
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wheres the decklists for the ocg players that tech this?
They're on Shriek. Don't look at all the BS local tournaments, look at the championship tournaments with more players. They generally lend better results. I've seen it tech'd at 1 in Dino Rabbits and 2 in a Thunder Deck.

Also, where's the obligatory "broken in Macro Decks" that I'm supposed to get from you?
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:14 PM   #21
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I guess I'm not the only one who's considered using Helios in Macro decks. I've always felt it's a shame to run Macro but not get a plus out of it
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:58 PM   #22
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Makes me wonder how many people don't use Solemn Warning against Macro Cosmos when they've had the chance.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:04 PM   #23
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Makes me wonder how many people don't use Solemn Warning against Macro Cosmos when they've had the chance.
I'm guessing because many people don't notice that Macro Cosmos can actually Special Summon something, and they're more concerned about their Graveyard becoming non-existent.

EDIT: Also, even if they knew, they'd probably prefer MST'ing it than using their Warning on it instead of a monster.

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Old 12-03-2012, 06:22 PM   #24
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I'm sure the situation has come up where they didn't have mst and needed the grave.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:30 PM   #25
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The issue with Helios and one that hasn't been brought up yet... Surprisingly, is the fact that you are in practically all instances going to be activating Macro Cosmos on your opponents turn and thus Helios is going to sit there all useless like!!!

I don't know when other people activate Macro Cosmos but I activate it during the Draw Phase of my opponents turn thus any "Cost" type Draw cards don't get to send a monster to the Graveyard first if I chain Macro Cosmos to it's activation.
The downside to this is you let your strategy "Cat" out the bag but the advantage is you have the jump on your opponent from the get go.

That's my Reasoning for why Helios is not really that good, plus it's attack never really gets that high and apart from either being a beater (LOL) or a Synchro/ XYZ material it's use's really are small, plus if you do get it on your opponents turn it's not going to survive till your turn... Unless somehow you've been devious!!!
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