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Old 10-19-2012, 06:59 PM   #1
daasianmang
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Default Genex Undine/Controller Engine in Atlanteans/Mermails: Why should I run it?

I've been taking suggestions on my Atlantean/Mermail build and almost every time, people have asked if I have used/considered the Undine Engine. I have used it, but am I the only one who sees that this engine is weak? My reasons for thinking so:

1) Undine wastes your normal summon. They're monsters with subpar stats that can't stand their own against anything noteworthy (Sangan? lol)
2) Inconsistencies/dead draws. I've had many, many hands where I open with Undine and Controller. The most successful ratio I found was 3:2 with 42 cards to decrease the chances of drawing into Controller. I summon Undine, search controller. A few turns later: I draw into Undine. Well this is cool... At least I can dump it for Abyssmegalo.
3) Controller is just Allure bait; I'm rarely able to summon him without getting stopped or they're nothing on my field. If I really wanted to run another Tuner aside from Diva, I'd just use Birdman.

To be fair, it has some merits.
1) Deck thinning. It speeds up the deck by searching Controller and lets you use Allure, but I just don't think it's worth the inconsistency.
2) Activates Atlantean effects. This is probably the main reason people use it, and while this is very, very helpful, I find that my build is more successful with just using the Mermails to trigger the effects.

I probably missed some reasons, but can you guys add some additional arguments for/against it? I just find Undine/Controller to be so subpar.

This is my build in case you were wondering:
http://www.pojo.biz//board/showthread.php?t=1086874
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:24 PM   #2
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I feel undone works pretty well for me, but your right that it can make it a bit inconsistent. However with the ability to dump dragon and search stuff, in a way it does make it more consistent. Hmm...
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Steelswarmdude122 View Post
I feel undone works pretty well for me, but your right that it can make it a bit inconsistent. However with the ability to dump dragon and search stuff, in a way it does make it more consistent. Hmm...
Its ability to abuse the Atlantean toolbox is certainly helpful, but I'd rather not have access to that if I trade off the deck's overall consistency for that. Sure, I may be able to search this or pop this or that early game, but if it means later on in the duel I'll be screwed with useless Controllers/Undines clogging my hand, I'd rather not. In most games I played with it, I only was able to use it once. Definitely not worth the 4-5 slots dedicated to running it.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:35 PM   #4
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Why wouldn't you use it?Its too good.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:54 AM   #5
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Why wouldn't you use it?Its too good.
I'd like a reason other than that to use it.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:57 AM   #6
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I don't like it; It's just too inconsistent for my tastes. Late game you have so many dead draws with this engine, so I'd rather have consistency with the full Mermail engine instead of early explosiveness and dead draws late game.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:17 AM   #7
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I don't like it; It's just too inconsistent for my tastes. Late game you have so many dead draws with this engine, so I'd rather have consistency with the full Mermail engine instead of early explosiveness and dead draws late game.
Exactly. That's my reasoning with it.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:21 AM   #8
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Mermails are used to get the effects of atlanteans. Imagine them as a slower version of inzectors. If you need ideas google the decklist.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:22 AM   #9
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Mermails are used to get the effects of atlanteans. Imagine them as a slower version of inzectors. If you need ideas google the decklist.
I know this. I've been testing the deck for well over a month.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:25 AM   #10
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I've just started trying an Atlantean Beatdown/Easy XYZ deck, which works well without the Undine engine. I prefer Abyss Soldier over Undine because I can bounce a card and maybe get a bonus depending on what I drop. Undine/Controller engines work well, I won't disagree, but my preference will always be Abyss.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:25 AM   #11
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You're on Reddit too aren't you?
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:57 AM   #12
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For some reason whenever I play Undine in anything, Genex Controller always decides to find its way into my hand, not by Undine's effect
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalPromise View Post
I've just started trying an Atlantean Beatdown/Easy XYZ deck, which works well without the Undine engine. I prefer Abyss Soldier over Undine because I can bounce a card and maybe get a bonus depending on what I drop. Undine/Controller engines work well, I won't disagree, but my preference will always be Abyss.
Disagreeing with who? The op of this thread is against undine.
Also Atlanteans don't make for a good Beatdown deck, and they should always be centered around synchros and xyz's
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:07 AM   #14
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Reasons I run it:
1) -1s your opponent if you send infantry/marksman
2) gives you a free search if you send dragoons
3) can turn into a +2 if you send dragoon+have allure in hand
4) Deck thinning
5) can bait Torrential and its effect wont be stopped due to being trigger
6) sets you up for bigger plays
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravehero View Post
Reasons I run it:
1) -1s your opponent if you send infantry/marksman
2) gives you a free search if you send dragoons
3) can turn into a +2 if you send dragoon+have allure in hand
4) Deck thinning
5) can bait Torrential and its effect wont be stopped due to being trigger
6) sets you up for bigger plays
1) I pointed this out already
2) Very true
3) Again, true
4) Deck thinning at the cost of consistency isn't worth it
5) No good player will use Torrential on Undine
6) True but again, #4.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:04 AM   #16
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Meh, if i dont see how the ability to dump aby water monster from ur deck to ur grave as a cost is crazy then u dont understand how the deck works. Lategame inconsistencies arent really that important. You should have your opponenty dead early anyway

Additional Comment:

My friend also suggested i tech in mid control to make controller more consistent and ive loved the results

Last edited by ReyRey : 10-20-2012 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:07 AM   #17
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5) can bait Torrential and its effect wont be stopped due to being trigger
I loled, this was funny.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:17 AM   #18
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I loled, this was funny.
Why? Its true
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravehero View Post
Reasons I run it:
1) -1s your opponent if you send infantry/marksman
2) gives you a free search if you send dragoons
3) can turn into a +2 if you send dragoon+have allure in hand
4) Deck thinning
5) can bait Torrential and its effect wont be stopped due to being trigger
6) sets you up for bigger plays
1. That's pretty obvious.
2. Pretty obvious.
3. Situational.
4. Consistency is preferred over deck thinning.
5. Lol, you're so bad.
6. As I said, overall consistency is better than early explosiveness.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:31 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by xTenraix View Post
1. That's pretty obvious.
2. Pretty obvious.
3. Situational.
4. Consistency is preferred over deck thinning.
5. Lol, you're so bad.
6. As I said, overall consistency is better than early explosiveness.
Lol currently in a game where I've drawn into 2 Controllers. Fail.

EDIT: Used Abysspike to add Undine to hand late game because it was the "best choice". 1 of the Controller's is in the grave. Guess what I topdeck? CONTROLLER. At this point it's gonna be really freakin' hard for me to use Controller/Undine. THEY SUCK

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Old 10-20-2012, 12:27 PM   #21
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Lol currently in a game where I've drawn into 2 Controllers. Fail.

EDIT: Used Abysspike to add Undine to hand late game because it was the "best choice". 1 of the Controller's is in the grave. Guess what I topdeck? CONTROLLER. At this point it's gonna be really freakin' hard for me to use Controller/Undine. THEY SUCK
Ive had games where ive drawn 2 tour guides, even had one 2 days ago with chaos drags where i drew a tour guide and Sangan, then topped into another guide on my second draw. Doesnt mean tgus suck, just that i got a stupidly unlucky draw. Try running Allure of Darkness and Mind Control, they make those controllers useful and will almost never be dead with the amount of xyz and synchro options u have.

A teammate of mine plays 2 raegiki break. Chainable removal for anything on the field, and again another way to convert hand advantage into field advantage and use dead cards
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:39 PM   #22
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Ive had games where ive drawn 2 tour guides, even had one 2 days ago with chaos drags where i drew a tour guide and Sangan, then topped into another guide on my second draw. Doesnt mean tgus suck, just that i got a stupidly unlucky draw. Try running Allure of Darkness and Mind Control, they make those controllers useful and will almost never be dead with the amount of xyz and synchro options u have.

A teammate of mine plays 2 raegiki break. Chainable removal for anything on the field, and again another way to convert hand advantage into field advantage and use dead cards
That's totally different. Tour Guide is far more useful than Undine... Tour Guide is an instant Xyz and rarely does that scenario ever occur to me where I draw into 2 Tour Guides. However with Undine... totally different story. I did run Controller and Mind Control, still did not help the fact that they were dead so frequently.

Last edited by daasianmang : 10-20-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:52 PM   #23
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why would you use Genex Undine in a mermail/atlantean build anyways? isn't the point of Genex Undine to be a substitute for mermails since they're not out until Abyss Rising? I would think full out mermails/atlanteans would be faaar better than 5-6 cards of genex
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
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That's totally different. Tour Guide is far more useful than Undine... Tour Guide is an instant Xyz and rarely does that scenario ever occur to me where I draw into 2 Tour Guides. However with Undine... totally different story. I did run Controller and Mind Control, still did not help the fact that they were dead so frequently.
Again how isn't the ability to dump literally anything from your deck to the grave useful?
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:01 PM   #25
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Because Undine is neat and Synchro is cool
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but there isnt any use in doing what iv been seeing people do. dd crow doesnt do what dd crow does for dd crow, dd crow does what dd crow does because dd crow is dd crow.
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