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Old 10-10-2012, 07:42 PM   #1
nick2121
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Default Soulless OTT

Well; this is my first Vanguard deck. Now that I've moved to Scotland for Uni, I'm near somewhere that actually plays and sells the cards.
I've not played much at home, but I've when I've played it was with a Royal Paladin starter Deck, against my friends Royal Paladin starter deck. We had been watching the anime since it started being subbed, so we wanted to play it.

Because of this I always liked Misakis Oracle deck, and when researching cards I made the choice to play Soulless over Tsukyomyi.

Grade 0: [17]

1x Little Witch, LuLu
4x Lozenge Magus [HT]
4x Oracle Guardian, Nike [Crit]
4x Psychic Bird [Crit]
4x Miracle Kid [Crit]

Grade 1: [15]

4x Battle Sister, Chocolat
3x Battle Sister, Omelet
4x Emerald Witch, LaLa
4x Oracle Guardian, Gemini

Grade 2: [11]

3x Maiden of Libra
4x Oracle Guardian, Wiseman
4x Silent Tom

Grade 3: [7]

3x Battle Sister, Souffle
4x Scarlet Witch CoCo
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:00 AM   #2
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From the top down.
G3's look fine.
4 Silent Tom can be cloggy try 3, no reason to run Wiseman when you have Battle Sister, Glace and Battle Sister, Mocha. Maiden of Libra isn't that big of a threat. Highspeed, Brakki is good tech so you can re ride CoCo draw 2 cards then get 0 cards in soul again. Try 3 Battle Sister, Mocha/Battle Sister, Glace/Silent Tom and 2 Highspeed, Brakki.
G1's not bad, not a fan of Omelet or LaLa but OTT has lackluster G1's. I'd run 4 Circle Magus/3 LaLa instead. LaLa just cycles and only provides card quality instead of advantage like Circle Magus, but LaLa is conditional.
G0's are fine but Miracle Kid is a draw trigger not a crit.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaSonic View Post
From the top down.
G3's look fine.
4 Silent Tom can be cloggy try 3, no reason to run Wiseman when you have Battle Sister, Glace and Battle Sister, Mocha. Maiden of Libra isn't that big of a threat. Highspeed, Brakki is good tech so you can re ride CoCo draw 2 cards then get 0 cards in soul again. Try 3 Battle Sister, Mocha/Battle Sister, Glace/Silent Tom and 2 Highspeed, Brakki.
G1's not bad, not a fan of Omelet or LaLa but OTT has lackluster G1's. I'd run 4 Circle Magus/3 LaLa instead. LaLa just cycles and only provides card quality instead of advantage like Circle Magus, but LaLa is conditional.
G0's are fine but Miracle Kid is a draw trigger not a crit.
I haven't tried using Mocha or Glace, so I'll test them and see what they're like.
I have 2 Brakki as well, so I'll try it.
And yeah, but BT05 isn't out yet, so I can't run full crit. I would be , if I could.

Thanks for the tips, man.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:13 AM   #4
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I don't think 12 Crit is that good. Yes I'm aware it won Japans Nats. Draw triggers are just too good to run at 0.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:27 AM   #5
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I don't think 12 Crit is that good. Yes I'm aware it won Japans Nats. Draw triggers are just too good to run at 0.
I wasn't aware of that myself. lol.
Like I said, I only just started really, and my research and knowledge has mainly been limited to looking up the cards on the wikia, watching the show and talking to the guys at my locals.

But the more I think about it, the more I like this Brakki tech. It's essentially perfect. I probably wouldn't have ever read the card had you not told me about it, so thank you very much for your help man
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:36 AM   #6
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No problems. Honestly I think Soulless needs 1 better G1 like a 6k that gets +3k if a condition is met, because you almost can't play Cocoa, and Circle Magus/Emerald Witch LaLa are lackluster.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:45 AM   #7
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Honestly I think Soulless needs 1 better G1 like a 6k that gets +3k if a condition is met
So, Battle Sister Maple then.
unfortunately we have to wait til january for that ;-;
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:54 AM   #8
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no reason to run Wiseman when you have Battle Sister, Glace and Battle Sister, Mocha.
I disagree with this. Wiseman prevents you from getting rushed down with 18k columns on your opponent's turn and, if you're unlucky enough to miss your Grade 3 ride, at least you're sitting behind a 10k Vanguard instead of an 8k one. Offensively, you're right that Glace and Mocha have an advantage over Wiseman although it's only a slight one.

Quote:
Highspeed, Brakki is good tech so you can re ride CoCo draw 2 cards then get 0 cards in soul again.
Brakki seems a little sketchy to me in theory. Sure you can empty your soul by 1 card but how often will you get to do this? I'm worried Brakki will simply be a 9k attacker most of the time but I haven't tested it myself so I wouldn't know.

Quote:
LaLa just cycles and only provides card quality instead of advantage like Circle Magus, but LaLa is conditional.
Circle Magus doesn't provide any "(card) advantage" if we're going by the definition of the term most commonly used in card games. Her effect does help but doesn't generate any +'s or -'s.

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I don't think 12 Crit is that good. Yes I'm aware it won Japans Nats. Draw triggers are just too good to run at 0.
I have the opposite experience when I proxy'd 12 Critical Triggers in my CoCo build: it did pretty amazingly. Coco and Lulu give you a pretty significant boost to your hand size to the point where I rarely ever ran out cards by the end of the game even without any Draw Triggers. My personal favorite trigger lineup for this deck is 10 Critical, 2 Draw, 4 Heal but hey, everyone has their own favorite trigger lineup.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by NinjaSonic View Post
I don't think 12 Crit is that good. Yes I'm aware it won Japans Nats. Draw triggers are just too good to run at 0.
No, they are not. When you draw as much as Coco, you will more than likely draw into Triggers, and drawing 10k guards is better than drawing 5k guards.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #10
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No, they are not. When you draw as much as Coco, you will more than likely draw into Triggers, and drawing 10k guards is better than drawing 5k guards.
Most likely the reasoning behind all the JPN top lists having 12 crit as well.

In absence of Sakuya, I've been experimenting a bit and my grade 3 lineup looks like this:
4x CoCo
2x CEO
2x Soufle

I tried various combinations of Apollon/Madonna/Soufles, but in bad games where I was forced to ride them, they just couldn't hit magic numbers. Whenever I was forced to ride CEO it wasn't so bad as it would force 15k guards every turn.

Though if you were to stick completely soulless, I've had good luck running:
4x CoCo
3x NaNa
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:18 AM   #11
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@Fereshte I haven't noticed a whole lot of 18k columns but it's something I'll look out for. When you have access to 6-8 11k G2s it really helps with all of the 11k Vanguards that are starting to appear. With CoCo and Psychic Bird it isn't hard to get the one soul for Brakki, it's only at 2 so it doesn't clog your hand and with 7k behind it that's 21k. I said LaLa and Circle Magus didn't provide Card Advantage but Card Quality. Circle Magus just isn't conditional. I still think 12 Crit is overrated then again I run 4-6 Draw in every list. They're just so good on defense. As long as they aren't your 6th damage they're almost better than heal triggers.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaSonic View Post
@Fereshte I haven't noticed a whole lot of 18k columns but it's something I'll look out for. When you have access to 6-8 11k G2s it really helps with all of the 11k Vanguards that are starting to appear. With CoCo and Psychic Bird it isn't hard to get the one soul for Brakki, it's only at 2 so it doesn't clog your hand and with 7k behind it that's 21k. I said LaLa and Circle Magus didn't provide Card Advantage but Card Quality. Circle Magus just isn't conditional. I still think 12 Crit is overrated then again I run 4-6 Draw in every list. They're just so good on defense. As long as they aren't your 6th damage they're almost better than heal triggers.
18k columns aren't too common but they can be made without too much difficulty especially if your opponent is at the turn where they're riding to Grade 3 and can call all those 12k rear guard beaters to the field which many decks are running. And I misread/misinterpreted your first statement about Lala vs. Circle Magus; you're right.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:54 AM   #13
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I agree Wiseman in Soulless is almost a must! OTT have a problem with being rushed down so they cannot enter their late game. Having a 10k body there both in attack and defense is always a good thing.
I've tried Brakki and when you look at the math it's just not worth it.
You Minus 1 to reride Coco, next you draw two cards so +1, next you swing with Brakki and minus your soul. Brakki returns to deck so -1 from field.. you've now broken even as far as card advantage is concerned. I'd almost as easily run a fishing unit to drop and draw instead.

Glace is also a good unit to include in the deck over Maiden of Libra just for the pure 11k beats of death. Which apply pressure to those 11k Vanguards. Soulless is meant to be the aggro alternative to Tsukiyomi's defensive build for OTT. So playing conservative only goes so far. Running 12 crit when you're able to would be amazing but so far in US meta we're restricted to 8 crit 4 draw. Also as soon as available you should look into getting a set of Dark Cat
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