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Old 08-05-2012, 11:56 AM   #1
darkiel.rosk
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Default Queen Madolche Tiaramisu

Ok queen madolche says "Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target up to 2 "Madolche" cards in your Graveyard; shuffle those targets into the Deck, then shuffle the same number of cards your opponent controls into the Deck."

So, if I target 2 madolche monsters in my graveyard, and 1 get D.D. Crow'd, does the other target still return to the deck, and I return 1 of my opponent's cards to the deck too?

2nd: "If the opponent only controls 1 card, the effect of "Queen Madolche Tiaramisu" can be activated targeting 2 "Madolche" cards in your Graveyard. At the time of the resolution of the effect of "Queen Madolche Tiaramisu", since there is 1 other card that cannot be returned to the Deck, the only card the opponent controls is returned to the owner's Deck by the effect of "Queen Madolche Tiaramisu".[2]"

Does that mean 2 madolches are returned to the deck, but only 1 card of the opponent is returned?
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:10 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by darkiel.rosk View Post
Ok queen madolche says "Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target up to 2 "Madolche" cards in your Graveyard; shuffle those targets into the Deck, then shuffle the same number of cards your opponent controls into the Deck."

So, if I target 2 madolche monsters in my graveyard, and 1 get D.D. Crow'd, does the other target still return to the deck, and I return 1 of my opponent's cards to the deck too?

2nd: "If the opponent only controls 1 card, the effect of "Queen Madolche Tiaramisu" can be activated targeting 2 "Madolche" cards in your Graveyard. At the time of the resolution of the effect of "Queen Madolche Tiaramisu", since there is 1 other card that cannot be returned to the Deck, the only card the opponent controls is returned to the owner's Deck by the effect of "Queen Madolche Tiaramisu".[2]"

Does that mean 2 madolches are returned to the deck, but only 1 card of the opponent is returned?
It says "those"..it will still return the other target, however, only one will be shuffled on the opponent's field.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #3
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You don't target the opponent's cards at activation, so only after you shuffle your targets into your deck you choose the cards to return from your opponent's side of the field.

Answering your 1st question, according to PSCT, you need to shuffle the TWO cards (if you selected two, obviously) or no one. So, if the opponent chains D.D. Crow you cant resolve the effect cause the targets are not available to return to your deck. You can't return one nor shuffle any card to your opponent's deck.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #4
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You don't target the opponent's cards at activation, so only after you shuffle your targets into your deck you choose the cards to return from your opponent's side of the field.

Answering your 1st question, according to PSCT, you need to shuffle the TWO cards (if you selected two, obviously) or no one. So, if the opponent chains D.D. Crow you cant resolve the effect cause the targets are not available to return to your deck. You can't return one nor shuffle any card to your opponent's deck.
This is wrong..actually according to PSCT the person would shuffle the remaining targets left in the graveyard.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Ru...e_note-D-EST-2


And if the opponent has only one card on the field you can only target one "Madolche" monster to reach a compromise, "one for one" not two for one and then the effect can't resolve.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by cosmetiago View Post
You don't target the opponent's cards at activation, so only after you shuffle your targets into your deck you choose the cards to return from your opponent's side of the field.

Answering your 1st question, according to PSCT, you need to shuffle the TWO cards (if you selected two, obviously) or no one. So, if the opponent chains D.D. Crow you cant resolve the effect cause the targets are not available to return to your deck. You can't return one nor shuffle any card to your opponent's deck.
According to PSCT, you're incorrect.

"Those targets" is different to "both those targets." Tiaramisu's effect resolves just fine.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:27 PM   #6
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According to PSCT, you're incorrect.

"Those targets" is different to "both those targets." Tiaramisu's effect resolves just fine.
No, according to it as long as the resolution says "target(s)" it means that need to have the conditions right as were at activation and they aren't in case mencioned.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:30 PM   #7
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No, according to it as long as the resolution says "target(s)" it means that need to have the conditions right as were at activation and they aren't in case mencioned.
No..."target" is a status condition not a quantity condition..relative to counting numbers such as one, two, both, those. Target just means status. Those imply that it doesn't care. Mentioning targets just means that it needs to be a "Madolche" card that is in the grave..relatively there is nothing quantified there if you want to talk about counting. There are many operators that help people read the card relative to PSCT, words like "target", "they", etc. However different operators will entail different facts about certain stuff.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #8
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The phrase "targets" means they have to remain eligible targets. In this case the eligible targets are ""Madolche" cards in your Graveyard". If they cease to be Maldoche cards or cease to be in the graveyard then you will not shuffle them into the deck. If the quantity mattered it would say "both targets".
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:36 PM   #9
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No, according to it as long as the resolution says "target(s)" it means that need to have the conditions right as were at activation and they aren't in case mencioned.
You got it backwards. The Chief and AntiTCG are correct.
Targeting occurs at activation. If "those targets" are used, think of it as you resolve as much as possible since targeting only mattered when activating.
"those monsters"/"those cards" means if one of the targets is no longer around when resolving, then the effect fizzles for all cards/targets.
Gottoms' Emergency Call is an exception until an errata. I believe the OCG GEC has the better/correct text.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:37 PM   #10
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The phrase "targets" means they have to remain eligible targets. In this case the eligible targets are ""Madolche" cards in your Graveyard". If they cease to be Maldoche cards or cease to be in the graveyard then you will not shuffle them into the deck. If the quantity mattered it would say "both targets".
You just invalidated your own argument. "Both targets" results in your original argument's validation. The first constituent of your sentence was right, yes they need to remain "Madolche" cards in the graveyard. The "targets" do, that has nothing to do with how much. "Target" is still a status quantity not a number related quantity, period.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #11
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No, according to it as long as the resolution says "target(s)" it means that need to have the conditions right as were at activation and they aren't in case mencioned.
There's a reason why Offering to the Snake Deity doesn't work unless all 3 targets can be destroyed, and it's not only because it targets. It's because of the word "all."

Conversely, Wind-Up Arsenal Zenmaioh doesn't give a fig about what happens to one of his targets. He still destroys the other.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:50 PM   #12
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You just invalidated your own argument. "Both targets" results in your original argument's validation. The first constituent of your sentence was right, yes they need to remain "Madolche" cards in the graveyard. The "targets" do, that has nothing to do with how much. "Target" is still a status quantity not a number related quantity, period.
I was trying to describe to him how this effect would look if it did care about quantity by altering a relevant portion of this card's text. I was not trying to say something about PSCT but how this card, in particular, would look. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:55 PM   #13
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I was trying to describe to him how this effect would look if it did care about quantity by altering a relevant portion of this card's text. I was not trying to say something about PSCT but how this card, in particular, would look. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
No it's ok. Just I'm fastidious xD.
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