Self Destruct Button: deck cant win short of abusing rules last I heard, So why does it exist at this point? Other than to piss a guy off I for one can't find a reason.
If this list is a meta nuke then why is this here? Seems like you're trying to disguise your ulterior motives under this "meta nuke" list. Also nothing is wrong with this card, it's the rules Konami put in place that makes it so infuriating for you. Judgment: No reason to ban
: Ok I know what this looks like, its a classic case of " Noob hates alt win condition! But no, I don't, make a well desiogned one and im all for it! But a deck thats strategy is " Watch your opponent do nothing for 20 turns." Is NOT FUN. There is no way anyone can have fun playing against that kind of nonsense. I've said it before in my arguement agaisnt stuff like One day and ill likely make it 100 more times. Any deck were I feel like watching T.V is a more productive way of doing nothing, has no place in a competitive game. And trust me, unless you get lucky, REAL lucky all you'll be doing against This kind of deck is just that, nothing.
1. What is "fun" then? Your opinion of what fun is when it comes to alt playstyles that aren't "Beat face for game" should not factor into a meta nuke. I think countdown is a very fun deck that if you're not careful with, will run out of steam before you can get to the 20th turn.
2. I have fun playing against it because I have a side deck that can counter non-meta decks. There goes that theory
3. Explain your reasoning why decks whose purpose isn't to win the game in 10 seconds flat has no place in a competitive game. Mad because you feel like you're wasting time? Tough, you should've planned enough time for your hobby and whatever else you needed to do that day. If you don't have enough time to play a game, then you shouldn't be playing then right?
4. Trust me, unless you side cards for alt winstyles, you're just going to be mad you lost to a non-atk with floaters/beaters for game.
Rescue Rabbit: Ill be simple with this, we cant leave it unlimited because its a 1 card rank 4 engine, and even if Dollka/Laggia gone, SOONER or later more stupid rank 4's will appear. Hell in OCG Rabbit verz is actually a fairly strong deck, and they don't even have TGU. At semi limited, its still to strong, for the same reasons as before. But at one, No one will even bother running it. This card, to me is a simple 3 or 0 card. At one, its not worth tossing in normal monsters to try and fuel it on the offchance you draw into rabbit. At this point its either neuter rank 4's..or just let this rabbit join its kitty friend in card heaven. So....I bid you adieu little wabbit.
For anyone who says just removing TGU wouild be enough....in reality I dont see that as true, its a costless deck thinning rank 4 xyz machine, Even without TGU its still a turn 1 Laggia etc, and thats just to much. Also as I said before, Limiting it would essentially be the same as banning the card as NO ONE would run it.
: My reasoning is the same as Rekindling
, Im aware that i am essentially killing a theme, but the ENTIRE theme is "get Launcher, loop and make opp scoop." It was a poorly thought out card whos power could have, and should have been toned down. Im sorry, as I said before with Lavals if your only way to win is to spam that spell card and loop, than its time to bury it and make a new fiend Archetype. Sorry tour guide, sorry new dark worlds you don't count >.>.
And yes Im aware that they can still mini loop with Mirage/necro shenans...but if I ever lose to inferns, its because of launcher, ive NEVER had trouble even with them, short of that card, Im aware thats experiance but i have a keen feeling thats everyone elses to.
Allure of Darkness
: Simply put, short of the BIG 4 of drawing, POG, Charity and Mirage and Disk commander, this is the strongest draw card in the game. Now im ok with themes etc getting draw cards, consistency is whats needed whether by searching a lot (gish/magicals) or straight up drawing. But tobe blunt, this card is far to much, Im aware that on paper its +0, you remove 1 card and remove one monster, but the issue is if you look past the numbers to the real problem.
It forces Element Tunnel Vision, yea thats a term I guess. To me its the same issue as Honest, by giving ONE element alone a broken card, whether it be on honests level or otherwise, many many people will gravitate to said theme etc, leaving the rest in the dust. Giving elements special cards to reflect thier differences is fine, but cards like Allure and Honest are in leagues of thier own, and WILL always make a player Shift
over to them just for it. Allure offers, even at one some of the best consistency you can get, for a cost that in todays meta is near unseen(hullo levair). Either give the other elements SOMETHING, doesnt have to be on allures level and give darks a new weaker card or allure has to go. Elemental tunnel vision has to stop
So much ******* agree.
Honest: Oh boy I can smell the flame war brewng at naming this card out, but please understand. Do you see Kalut...do you see Gem merchant and any other damage phase monster drop? Realize how they now offer a set number of attack points? Do you know why that is? Its because honest is..and I mean this literally an " I Win" card. Though I have reservations about this style of card at all, Honest is by far the worst offender. The ability to have a Magician of Faith
kill an Obelisk is unreal, and it hardly adds to "Skillful" play. Just hold onto that honest, and smirk while you pray your opp isnt holding a BoM, as its thier only hope out of that stupid sitauation.
Also....lets face it, in order to help bring back the other elements of Ygo, you know everything that isnt light and dark, some Powerful staples in the end need to be snipped. TO me, the card has no place in any format, Remake it and have it add a set number of points like the rest of em. Heck unlike Kalut etc honest is ALL light monsters, making it worse...and a no risk high reward card.
You and me need to talk about how much I am agreeing with you.
Dark Armed Dragon
: I cant believe I forgot this bugger(thanks chaos). This is another Low risk High reward card that is far to easy to poop out. Its not as easy as....say BLS but still far to simple for its effect and body. No boss monster that has that kind of ability should be as easy to drop as most normal summons. And yes I know of its requirement, but any ygo player worth thier salt understands how neglible it is.
Obvious hit is obvious.
Gorz, Emisarry of Darkness: This is a card that rewards bad playing, simply put it has no place in this game. Now yes, im aware that in the current meta its an acceptable evil, and I accept that. But if changes happened to fix it, than this card would have to go.
With a meta nuke, hell the **** yeah.
Black Luster Soldier Envoy of the beggining: Do I really have to explain how bad this card is? Next to no risk for an immense reward with two game breaking effects, not to mention that unless its summon is negated it can be monster reborned.
MOnster Reborn[/color]:....card steals games and further enhances the effect of a Trash meta, if you only won because you topped a reborn than im sorry, you had no right to win.
Levair the Sea dragon- If Tgu wasn't rampant I would likely let this bugger slide, but as it stands it turns the entire RFG of BOTH opponents into a toolbox with a body, and even if TGU vanishes, anotehr rank 3 engine will sooner or later appear to take its place.
Also removing this greatly wounds the annoyance of Dino-rabbit, actually balancing them and saving a great deal of other cards from hitting the ban-list unjustly.
Long story short, it was created for a theme that doesnt even do anything and just makes the game worse and worse, and even makes an option like Removal a rather useless gesture.
Agree. No toolboxing from the banished zone for any of you.
: Im sorry...I love the lavals, I know a lot of other folk love lavals but this is the ONLY reason the theme is even seeing play. Theres a reason I bitterly call it Rekindle.dek, and thats because its the only card worth mentioning. Yes theres sweltering Heat Wave
, but its just more prep for Rekindling
IM sorry, but if the ENTIRE theme of a deck relies on one spell card, a broken spell no less than its time to scrap the theme and remake a good fire archetype. Konami has proven it can do it, mermails/atlanteans are cool so Fire can get some new love.
Brionac the Ice dragon and Black Rose Dragon
: I lumped them together because the reasonings are the same. And I can already hear people screaming "SCRUB" in the backround but hear me out. I want synchros to live again, but in order to do that the Stupidly overpowered game stealers have to go.
One of them is a Dark Hole
, and the other....well most people I play with cant count the number of loses a mid/end game Brio poke have caused. Add to the fact that most themes nowadays are All about level manipualtion and special summoning makes them no challenge to get out.
Now before you say" But new themes dont have synchros!" if they got banned...id expect more balanced substitutes and new tuners naturally >.>..again this whole thing is more wishful.
Wind Up Hunter:.....yea..windups are a fun great deck and don't need hunter derping em up/slandering the deck anymore than it already has.
1. It's a -1 to summon, -1 for it's effect 90% of the time, and doesn't lucksack its way to victory. Why the hell do you need it banned?
1. Why ban a card that promotes overextension punishment?
: Im sorry, its time for Sangan
to join witch, the game ill needs Generic searchers. Doesn't help that most decks combo starters can be fetched by this card.
And Toon Cannon Soldier
: remember that Lightpulsar fiasco? Yea....how long until Konami screws up for real? My point is this card is ONLY ever used in OTK stupid loop decks, that will be its one and forever use and thus has no place in this game.
Exodias head, and the head only >.>: Because Solitare games are fun right? (Happy chaos...you bum?)
1. Solitare games are fun. Stop being mad.
2. Why not to 3? 3 of each piece in one deck will be a nightmare. Until I see a feasible deck that include multiple copies of exodia, I see no reason why this shouldn't move up?
: Same reasoning as above, at this point not even Dark world, the ONLY deck that even has a chance to gain momentum from this card won't run it. Only Solitare Empty jar decks run this card, and One great step for Ygo's balance is killing Solitare decks.
1. If you're only reasoning is solitare decks run it which aren't even meta in the first place, then I'm just going to have to stop you there.
2. Still no legitimate reason for getting rid of solitare decks other than opinions and being mad because duels don't end in five turns. next.
&partner=POJO" class="hover" rel="http://www.pojo.biz/board/CardHover/hoverYGO.php?CN=Future Fusion" target="new">Future Fusion
: yea...a self picking Painful Choice
is no good, and before anyone cries me a river about being Butthurt to Chaos dragons, i remind you that a lot of folk don't run the card. Also, Do NOT say just ban Five headed...how long until the next crazy fusion rolls around?...I dont care if its 2 years from now, Cut the root out instead of chopping at branches all day.
I honestly don't see what's wrong with FF, but for the sake of meta nukes I agree. I have some sort of inherent bias with this card and I don't run decks that abuse it. Makes me feel weird. >.>
Inzektor Hornet: I REALLY wanted to just limit this card, but i realized that the WHOLE zektor family could be dragged into this list due to the endless +4's this card makes...especially with revival cards like COTH and even Limit Reverse
for dragonfly (if COTH gets a hit). Konami, make a tcg exclusive that only hits face up..or only sets...or some kind of middle ground. If hornet even went to One..than centipeed, or dragonfly would have to be hit as well, it seemed unfair.
They have ladybug. Since it's a meta nuke, I agree with this.
: yea...with XYZ and stuff the "Cost" of Mind Control
can barely be applied at this point, the card may as well be called Change of Heart
lite at this point.
Change of Heart 2.0 is a better name. Agree in any case.
Red Eyes darkness Metal Dragon
: this card was well known to be broken, but at the same time Useless due to how....well Weak dragons were. But with hieratics now out, and likely more support on the way this is another Low risk High reward card, and by nipping this card NOW, Konami can make a better substitute boss and at the same time helps save any new dragons the fear of the ban list. Once again...though not as bad as BLS the card is simply TO easily summoned and has to strong an effect for next to no cost. Also, this helps stabalize Gishki Hieratics, another crazy annoying deck that hasn't hit the TCG yet.
Broken card with laughable summoning requirements and one of the greatest monster effect "Monster Reborn" in the game. To 0 where it belongs.
One day of Peace: This has to go, the simple point is if it didn't allow for a card to be drawn, than itd be fine. The one major flaw a stall deck is usually supposed to have,like Final Countdown
is that thier defenses cost them...most decks can chew through stuff like faders/wabo's with ease...and unless the opp can keep drawing into them, than thier walls will crumble. Also since an opponent is being given free reign to summon..stuff like traps wont work for long as they will summon ways to start nuking them. One Day of peace hurls that out the window by not only making you safe, being a spell so you cant MST it but it even nets you a +1..(the card you draw and the card you'd get at the start of your turn...all without taking a hit) Means that your essentially buying free turns and EASILY loading the hand up at NO RISK!. ILl be honest..im on the fence about all stall cards...but I won't start firing that wildly yet.
Undecided. I see both arguments for pro/con but I'm more inclined to side with pro One day
1. It's an overall 0(technically a -1 since your opp draws too)
2. it gives an opp a card too. The perfect balancing factor along with opp doesn't get damaged too.
: Yea....this card damn near defines lucksack. Ive seen gravekeepers do just fine without this stupid thing essentially ending a game on turn 1 if the hand is right. Again, its just another uneeded junk of lucksack and is near on par with stupid things like Rekindling
. This hit will just mean keepers add even more defense traps/spells to the deck, so it isnt like they are being crippled.
: Ok now im definatly aware this is a controversial hit, as many likely wont see WHY this card needs to go back to one, but the answer is simple. In order to steer the game away from " load dat graveyard and spam like a baws." That many decks of today, yesterday and Tommorow will likely be into...than SOME grave fuelers have to be nipped. Now Im aware that Lightsworn are the biggest offender to some, but this card is actually stronger since it literally pays for itself, at minimum.
What I mean by that is, even if you dont mill, you get a card back when its destroyed, so its ALWAYS an even +/-0. And now, for every powerful card you drop into the grave that can fuel you, you may as well mentally start stacking +1's for each goodie dropped. Lyla and Ryko, while both strong cards to be sure, dont pay for themselves ALONG with fuel, Yes ryko destroys a card on the field, and lyla breaks the backrow, but again neither pay for themselves. Also, A set ryko being popped etc gets no cards to mill or a destroyed eff, while a set trooper still nets that oh so valuable card drawn.
Meh, seems excessive but I'll run with it for now.
Tour Guide of the Underworld: same arguement as Rabbit, Id actually have to do proper testing etc to see if shes still a hideous monster without levair/Sangan
aroundto fuel her. If I see a good arguement, or if my testing proves shes either stronger or weaker than I think, than ill edit again
: So at the cost of 1 card you get an uninteruptable "blow me" card? Simply put years..or even months ago this was never a threat, but with Escuar now running around, and hero's likely to get even more support I think we need to nip this card before it gets out of control. And to be fair, MOST decks don't run more than 1 as is...so this is more a Check than a hit.
1. I hate this card with a dying passion but Miracle Fusion is the thing that is making HEROES competitive, not this.
2. I dectect a little butthurt with this one.
3. Until I see HEROES breaking this card, unlimited it stays.
Mystical Space Typhoon
: We have storm, Dust Tornado
, Night shot and most new themes have ways of popping spells/traps. Mst is no longer needed at 3.
Needs moar hits on defensive traps before this happens.
: 2000 LP is far to cheap and easy a price to essentially flip off any summon, one is fine considering we have 2x TT and 2x BTH etc to also stop summons. And with priority gone that allows said cards to stop effects. Cards that simply say " you don't get to play" are bad when more than one copy is allowed.
lolno. This **** deserves to be on 0 with his pal Judgment.
and Maxx C: Simply put hand traps, Like Gorz are a neccesary evil at the moment. But assuming a ban list of this strength is tossed in, three is overkill, plain and simple. hand traps like Veiler and its sibling maxx c are just a poorly designed card type. Any card that essentially has next to no counter, and simply ends your turn usually are bad. Even at two, it will show up far to often for my, or anyones tastes really. Remember, like Honest theres essentially NO OUTS to these cards, your opp slaps em down, and you essentially end turn.
Yes, At base Veiler at the very least is a -1, but again seeing cards as only -1/+1 and not looking into the reality of what they do does little more than cloud ones judgement on how strong a card really is. Im just sick and damn tired of before I make a deck, tossing 3 veiler in automatically, much like staple spells etc. Maxx c at least isnt AS bad, as your opp is given a choice if he wants to risk giving you cards, but his turn doesnt just end. Besides without veiler/maxx c more traps would be run, its not like your defenses die and unlike Stupid hand traps, players can actually prep for and counter them!
READ THIS: No one bettercome in here and say that Veiler is needed cause of inzektor etc. If a strong ban list is made that neuters the derp AND konami limits the Bull crap they print out, than cards like veiler/maxx can take the hit. But as it stands right now, yes veiler at 3 is a neccesary evil, I can concede that point.
Effect Veiler is only as strong as the format it's being played in. No need to hit it. Maxx "C" also applies to Veiler logic.
Semi Limited: These are mostly deck weakeners to try and dimish the Power of Super spam some decks use.
Six Samurai United
: Yea...this helps the title of Six Spamurai, yes Im aware the deck isn't Big...but im already hitting most of the top decks, so the little kids need to trimmed a bit to make them not as hair pullingly frustrating to deal with. This HARDLY kills them. This card is one of the big fuels to the fire along gateway that have earned them the title of six spamurai. But rather than pick apart the monsters, I again would rather smash the root
Sure. If Six Sams can't survive without a SSU, they don't deserve to be an archetype. Although banning gateway, and bringing up all the other hit six sam cards seems to be enough to make them competitve but not meta breaking.
Master Hyperion[: If agents ever come back, than a boss thats THIS easy tosummon, has 2700 attacks and comes with a "pop one card per turn" effect is to much at three. This wont kill agents( and mind you this is assuming they bring earth back) and just brings them down a tad.
Grapha: Again...going down to two Wont cripple the deck, but it makes spamming an immortal boss at least a tad bit harder...heck with trance A-fiend around I almost considered limiting this guy, but that felt overkill
Meh. Undecided about this.
Gateway to teh dark world: simply put...its the best field spell in the game, bar none. Crystal ruins is great, But the theme is more dead than "Insert pop culture reference here" And La Miason is cool to, but no real testing. But this card essentially pluss's, for next to no cost every turn. La Miason had the right idea, the cards drawn etc happen in the standby so you can't stack more than 1. But since we can't errata Gateway, a hit is neccesary. Going to 1 however, like Grapha would likely be overkill.
1.ACRR is the best field in the game. No questions asked. Doesn't matter if the theme is dead.
2. Why you hit consistency if you're hitting the boss monster as well.
Judgement Dragon: I know LS isnt doing anything short of splashing into Chaos dragons, but if they EVER get big again, should they ever rear thier head than such a Stupidly OP boss needs to at least be limited. 1000 lp to wipe a board? Can be used as many times as you want? can easily be spammed 2-3 at once? Yea, thats three strikes and this hardly kills LS.
Ill Be honest...this is just after a brief thinking, Theres likely dozens of cards that could be added....but this is all for now, ill update as I feel like it >.>
Ban this and bring up Lumina. Lightsworns have the consistency they need and none of the lucksacking of Judgment Dragon that everyone else needs. Charge can stay where it's at as long as a splashable Lightsworn engine is viable.