Sept 2012 Banlist prediction

[SkaterTrainer]

Based on the state of the metagame in the OCG with some consideration to the TCG, here is my prediction.

Banned:

Mind Control
Future Fusion

Limited:

Inzektor Dragonfly
Hieratic Dragon King of Atum
Evolzar Laggia
Snoww, Unlight of Dark world
Rekindling
Solar Recharge
Tour Guide From the Underworld (Won't happen but I wish it would)

Semi Limited:

T.G. Striker
Book of Moon
Foolish Burial
Mezuki

Unlimited:

Spore
Destiny Draw

People will call for REDMD's head, but if lightsworns + Judgment Dragon has shown us anything, it's that to properly hurt a deck, you hit it's engine, not it's boss monster, with Future Fusion gone, no turn one sack and with recharge at one, it's less milly. Foolish at 2 to compensate for Future Fusion gone.

[EliteLegion]

Originally Posted by SkaterTrainer

Based on the state of the metagame in the OCG with some consideration to the TCG, here is my prediction.

Banned:

Mind Control
Future Fusion

Limited:

Inzektor Dragonfly
Hieratic Dragon King of Atum
Evolzar Laggia ( why? ) Hit the rabbit instead
Snoww, Unlight of Dark world
Rekindling
Solar Recharge Why? just Why?
Tour Guide From the Underworld (Won't happen but I wish it would)

Semi Limited:

T.G. Striker
Book of Moon
Foolish Burial ( No )
Mezuki ( No )

Unlimited:

Spore ( Hell no )
Destiny Draw this is fine

People will call for REDMD's head, but if lightsworns + Judgment Dragon has shown us anything, it's that to properly hurt a deck, you hit it's engine, not it's boss monster, with Future Fusion gone, no turn one sack and with recharge at one, it's less milly. Foolish at 2 to compensate for Future Fusion gone.

I put my reactions in the Quote

[IDKsoMUCH]

Originally Posted by EliteLegion

I put my reactions in the Quote

Im not sure if im the only one, but I had trouble reading your thoughts.

[EliteLegion]

Originally Posted by IDKsoMUCH

Im not sure if im the only one, but I had trouble reading your thoughts.

Lol i made it very sketchy

My reasoning for not 100% liking this list
Solar Recharge doesn't need to be Hit it's not busted.
Laggia isn't the one that needs to be hit. Rabbit is
Mezuki won't go back to two. Unfortunately it gives zombies too hard of a Push.
Foolish buriak to two Doesn't solve many problems it actually creates even more. Zombies will run rampant.
Spore won't come back just yet give it 2 more formats, it's just too early

[Barrel Dragon_080]

Originally Posted by SkaterTrainer

Based on the state of the metagame in the OCG with some consideration to the TCG, here is my prediction.

Banned:

Mind Control
Future Fusion

Where's Monster Reborn?

Originally Posted by SkaterTrainer

Limited:

Inzektor Dragonfly
Hieratic Dragon King of Atum
Evolzar Laggia
Snoww, Unlight of Dark world
Rekindling
Solar Recharge
Tour Guide From the Underworld (Won't happen but I wish it would)

The only ones that actually should be limited are Dragonfly, Rekindling, and Tour Guide. All the others make no sense....yes that includes Atum. REDMD is a better limit than him....I read your argument and REDMD is both the boss AND the engine. Doesn't need a ban just a limit.

Originally Posted by SkaterTrainer

Semi Limited:

T.G. Striker
Book of Moon
Foolish Burial
Mezuki

Foolish Burial? WHAT? All others are fine.

Originally Posted by SkaterTrainer

Unlimited:

Spore
Destiny Draw

Both are fine.

[Bear Sounds]

I very much doubt that Rekindling will get hit. Lavals will do next to nothing in the TCG other than get hyped up, and I haven't heard about it doing all that much in the OCG lately. Topping, yes, but not to an OP extent. Even if it DOES get hit, it won't be to 1.

[Barrel Dragon_080]

Originally Posted by Bear Sounds

I very much doubt that Rekindling will get hit. Lavals will do next to nothing in the TCG other than get hyped up, and I haven't heard about it doing all that much in the OCG lately. Topping, yes, but not to an OP extent. Even if it DOES get hit, it won't be to 1.

I agree with that but because it was so prevalent for so long in the OCG they may hit it anyway.

[SkaterTrainer]

Originally Posted by EliteLegion

Lol i made it very sketchy

My reasoning for not 100% liking this list
Solar Recharge doesn't need to be Hit it's not busted.
Laggia isn't the one that needs to be hit. Rabbit is
Mezuki won't go back to two. Unfortunately it gives zombies too hard of a Push.
Foolish buriak to two Doesn't solve many problems it actually creates even more. Zombies will run rampant.
Spore won't come back just yet give it 2 more formats, it's just too early

Solar Recharge is trying to hit an engine, I want to do something to chaos dragons along with FF so that the deck slows down a bit. I can't go about doing 2 lyla or 2 ryko since that would be dumb. Banning Charge would be stupid, Trooper is fine at 2 and REDMD doesn't need to go down, if it goes anywhere it should only be to 2. I don't have an answer and I know it's a major problem.

Hitting rabbit shuts down more than dino-rabbit. It shuts off Verz, Gemknight, and other decks that aren't as broken and still can be a good choice. By hitting Laggia you hurt the concept of Rabbit, without making other decks suffer as a result.

Mezuki is fine at 2 with 1 Burial from the Different Dimension, that's what made the deck so powerful in a triple brio format, and brio is also at 1. Mezuki at 2 would be fine.

Foolish with FF banned is a decent replacement for decks that used Future Fusion, but need some sort of answer. It's a good -1 but it would define the format. At two it would work well.

Spore I agree is too early, but still, it should be on the list

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by Barrel Dragon_080

Where's Monster Reborn?

The only ones that actually should be limited are Dragonfly, Rekindling, and Tour Guide. All the others make no sense....yes that includes Atum. REDMD is a better limit than him....I read your argument and REDMD is both the boss AND the engine. Doesn't need a ban just a limit.

Foolish Burial? WHAT? All others are fine.

Both are fine.

Monster Reborn doesn't really need to see a hit, it's fine right now. I don't think it's a card that *currently* should be banned.

Atum is a more viable option because hieratics is the better deck in the ocg, which the list is mainly based off of. He is the problem card in hieratics which lead to otks. REDMD is a boss and an engine, but it's a lot easier to get pass than people are giving credit to. I might be bias because I am a dragon player, but REDMD isn't the problem, it helps keep dragon in any shape or form viable. Just because Chaos Dragons are doing something doesn't mean any sort of dragon deck should suffer. Take disaster dragon, it's a good deck, it's not broken, and REDMD gives it the ability to be a deck that can be played. REDMD is key for any dragon deck, and just because one theme abuses it, doesn't mean the whole type should flip-flop because of it. You have to hit the cards that make the deck a problem, not the card that keeps an entire theme remotely playable. There is a reason dragon's haven't been as prominent as they are now, it's the cards that make REDMD more abusable. You tamper with that, and REDMD can stay and provide decks that don't have any sort of push an answer to being viable. If you hit REDMD, you turn ANY dragon deck into sea serpents, and doing that is not what this game needs, yes it needs to fix the broken aspects, and I will 100% agree that Future Fusion is a problem and that chaos dragons are a very good deck, but you try to work with what the deck does to make REDMD broken, not just ban REDMD and call it a day.

Sorry about the wall of text, I have a very strong opinion on REDMD and I would go off on a longer rant about it and the game state if I had the opportunity.

Foolish is a VERY good -1, but it doesn't really need to stay at 1. With Future Fusion gone, decks need a discard outlet to be viable, foolish helps that. It really isn't as overpowered as people perceive it to be.

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by Bear Sounds

I very much doubt that Rekindling will get hit. Lavals will do next to nothing in the TCG other than get hyped up, and I haven't heard about it doing all that much in the OCG lately. Topping, yes, but not to an OP extent. Even if it DOES get hit, it won't be to 1.

TCG doesn't define the tier list at all. So I'm going to throw that TCG statement out right away. However, in the OCG, they have a pseudo rock-paper-scissors format. Inzektor is tier 0, best deck in the game. Rabbit, Hieratic, and HERO all being good against every other deck, except inzektor. However, Laval has a good matchup against Inzektor, but a bad match up against the other 3. Now if the other 4 decks were to be hit in any sort of way, where is the last powerhouse? Laval. The deck is really good and Rekindling is a very abusable card that if the meta is balanced out in the OCG, then Rekindling will have to go to finish off the top decks, it's as simple of a choice as that.

[Havok]

You did nothing to hurt Chaos Dragons. Yes, Future Fusion is a good card for the deck, but after extensively play testing against the deck, it isn't needed to win. Red-Eyes is the card that fuels both Chaos Dragons and Hieratics. You hit REDMD to stop stupid OTK loops with Gustav, which you really didn't pay any attention to.

[SkaterTrainer]

Originally Posted by Havok

You did nothing to hurt Chaos Dragons. Yes, Future Fusion is a good card for the deck, but after extensively play testing against the deck, it isn't needed to win. Red-Eyes is the card that fuels both Chaos Dragons and Hieratics. You hit REDMD to stop stupid OTK loops with Gustav, which you really didn't pay any attention to.

Gustav cannot go off with 1 Atum, I hope you know that. If it does it's because you Atum -> Redmd -> Random Target -> banish target/atum for redmd, and from there you can't OTK because you can't put enough damage on board. I paid attention to it. If you banish target you have 2600(gaia) + 3000(gustav) + 2000(gustav burn) which is 400 short, if you go into Bounzer you're 300 short and Focus Force you are 200 short, if you go 2800 (redmd) + 2500(watt) + 2000(gustav) you are 700 short From there if the field is taken care of, hieratics don't rebound.

For Chaos Dragons, again I'll defend the fact that REDMD is a card that is necessary for diversity in the game. I tried to limit the engine and with tour guide and recharge at 1, the deck starts to slow down to a pace where it keeps up with the game. Notice how well the deck does in the ocg. Wait, it doesn't because in the OCG hieratic is the dragon deck because tour guide is not a factor, with it at 1 the deck dwindles and at the end of the day, the OCG nearly always out prioritizes the TCG

[-Rain]

So you took OCG into consideration and you didn't hit Heroes in any way?. Hero format. Also why hit Snoww? Dark worlds hasn't done anything this format, although is tops occasionally and won a YCS but that win was when a person who actually used his brain.

[SkaterTrainer]

Originally Posted by -Rain

So you took OCG into consideration and you didn't hit Heroes in any way?. Hero format. Also why hit Snoww? Dark worlds hasn't done anything this format, although is tops occasionally and won a YCS but that win was when a person who actually used his brain.

In the OCG, darkworld is the 5th best deck. It beats out the other 3 decks that aren't inzektor. If you hit inzektor and the others, darkworld becomes a bigger problem as a result. It isn't a HERO format in the OCG, what planet are you on? Inzektor is tier 0 there. I don't like using a tier system, but it's the best way to explain the deck's dominance. With HERO, there isn't much you can hit. You can hit like Miracle Fusion, but again HERO is just a consistant deck that adapts the meta, there is nothing broken there like in the other decks. You also say OCG in the beginning and begin to talk about a YCS, which is a TCG thing. Thank you for your consistency. Again the list is primarily based off the the OCG, not the TCG. In that I'm not saying the TCG isn't taken into consideration, but the OCG is king when it comes to the list as a majority of it is solely based on the OCG meta.

[-Rain]

Originally Posted by SkaterTrainer

In the OCG, darkworld is the 5th best deck. It beats out the other 3 decks that aren't inzektor. If you hit inzektor and the others, darkworld becomes a bigger problem as a result. It isn't a HERO format in the OCG, what planet are you on? Inzektor is tier 0 there. I don't like using a tier system, but it's the best way to explain the deck's dominance. With HERO, there isn't much you can hit. You can hit like Miracle Fusion, but again HERO is just a consistant deck that adapts the meta, there is nothing broken there like in the other decks. You also say OCG in the beginning and begin to talk about a YCS, which is a TCG thing. Thank you for your consistency. Again the list is primarily based off the the OCG, not the TCG. In that I'm not saying the TCG isn't taken into consideration, but the OCG is king when it comes to the list as a majority of it is solely based on the OCG meta.

Dark world is the 6th best deck. You still have lavals to deal with, if your talking about OCG. Also I never said anything about heroes being dominant in OCG. I implied that if your going to hit dark world too, you should hit heroes as well because with all their competition gone, its going to be a HERO format.

[mudkip66]

Spore? Really?

[SkaterTrainer]

Originally Posted by mudkip66

Spore? Really?

Yes really, Spore isn't a card that should be banned. Glow-Up Bulb is arguable but Spore is fine.

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by -Rain

Dark world is the 6th best deck. You still have lavals to deal with, if your talking about OCG. Also I never said anything about heroes being dominant in OCG. I implied that if your going to hit dark world too, you should hit heroes as well because with all their competition gone, its going to be a HERO format.

HERO is a deck that has had the same card pool for about 2 years. They have been played the same way for ages. When they were winning YCSs and doing well the in the OCG at the same time, nothing was touched. The deck really doesn't need to be hit. Maybe super poly down to 2 or 1 but that's all I can see overpowered with the deck. I don't think it will be hit.

[RandyMarsh]

Why would you hit Laggia when Rescue Rabbit is the problem?

Why would you bring back Spore to 3 when never before, in this game's history, has a card gone from 0 to 3? Granted, I see no issue with the card being at 3, but it's just unrealistic.

I agree that Dragonfly is broken, but it's not just it that is the problem; you need also to hit Hornet.

Why did you hit Snoww? That just seems unnecessary. If anything, go after Grapha or Gates.

Hits on Solar Recharge, Atum, and Rekindling just seem unrealistic and unnecessary. If you were to ask me, I'd say Rekindling should be banned, but is it realistic? Perhaps not; it's the only justifiable choice among those though.

I agree fully with your bans, although I'd ban Sangan and leave Tour Guide unscathed or give it the Tengu treatment to 2, perhaps.

I'm not crazy about Mezuki to 2. I think it's right where it belongs right now.

[Indaend]

Originally Posted by RandyMarsh

Why would you hit Laggia when Rescue Rabbit is the problem?

Why would you bring back Spore to 3 when never before, in this game's history, has a card gone from 0 to 3? Granted, I see no issue with the card being at 3, but it's just unrealistic.

I agree that Dragonfly is broken, but it's not just it that is the problem; you need also to hit Hornet.

Why did you hit Snoww? That just seems unnecessary. If anything, go after Grapha or Gates.

Hits on Solar Recharge, Atum, and Rekindling just seem unrealistic and unnecessary. If you were to ask me, I'd say Rekindling should be banned, but is it realistic? Perhaps not; it's the only justifiable choice among those though.

I agree fully with your bans, although I'd ban Sangan and leave Tour Guide unscathed or give it the Tengu treatment to 2, perhaps.

I'm not crazy about Mezuki to 2. I think it's right where it belongs right now.

A few things to that.

1. Chaos Sorcerer was banned at one point. It is at 3 now. I believe there are a total of 5(?) cards that have gone from banned to three.
2. Tour Guide is a TCG exclusive. The only reason Tengu got hit was because Konami saw an all plant format in TCG and was like "Hey we don't usually care about you but plants are some boring ****"
3. Dragonfly isn't the problem. Hornet is. With the release of Ladybug inzektors would be fine without a Hornet, although realistically it should go to one.
4. Rekindling isn't ban material, Laval isn't one of the big 4 in the ocg.
5. Sangan won't get banned either, unless you want to ban tour bus aswell. If Sangan gets banned Wind-Ups will see more play because tour bus lets them loop for one extra card.