A more balanced meta:

[Chaos3600]

Goals of the format:
- To eliminate sackiness and promote skill.
- To make the majority of decks viable contenders in the format. If you noticed, I didn't exactly slaughter too many decks, and I gave the decks some new toys to play with. Instead, I elected for somewhat broader and far reaching changes in order to lower the generic power ceiling. Which leads to goal #3
- To make deck-building infinitly more difficult. I took away Archetype Staples + Generic Staples = 40 Card deck with many far reaching hits. I allowed most decks to still be available for heavy usage, but I made sure that players now have to think a lot more when choosing their cards to go into thier decks.


Notes:
Due to Victory Dragon, you must ask the opponent for permission to scoop the game. You may scoop the match at any point, however.

I will be happy to explain anything on this list; just ask the question

Banned:
Archlord Krystia
Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning
Card Trooper
Dandylion
Dark Armed Dragon
Elemental Hero Stratos
Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
Honest
Infernity Archfiend
Inzektor Hornet
Judgment Dragon
Lonefire Blossom
Mezuki
Morphing Jar
Necroface
Night Assailant
Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon
Sky Scourge Norleas
Tour Guide From the Underworld
Wind-Up Hunter

T.G. Hyper Librarian

Allure of Darkness
Black Whirlwind
Card Destruction
Chain Strike
Charge of the Light Brigade
Dark Hole
Future Fusion
Gateway of the Six
Heavy Storm
Limiter Removal
Mind Control
Monster Reborn
Mystical Space Typhoon
One Day of Peace
Rekindling
Reasoning
Royal Tribute

Bottomless Trap Hole
Call Of The Haunted
Mirror Force
Return from the Different Dimension
Royal Decree
Solemn Judgment
Solemn Warning

Limited:
NOTHING

Semi-Limited:
NOTHING

Unlimited:
Left Arm of the Forbidden One
Left Leg of the Forbidden One
Right Arm of the Forbidden One
Right Leg of the Forbidden One

Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind
Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow
Dark Magician of Chaos
Debris Dragon
Destiny Hero - Malicious
Exodia the Forbidden One
Gladiator Beast Bestiari
Glow-Up Bulb
Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner
Magician of Faith
Marshmallon
Necro Gardna
Neo-Spacian Grand Mole
Plaguespreader Zombie
Reborn Tengu
Sangan
Spore
Summoner Monk
T.G. Striker
The Agent of Mystery - Earth
Tragoedia
Tribe-Infecting Virus
Tsukuyomi
Victory Dragon

Thousand-Eyes Restrict

Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier
Formula Synchron
Goyo Guardian
Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En

Advanced Ritual Art
Book of Moon
Burial from a Different Dimension
Destiny Draw
Emergency Teleport
Foolish Burial
Infernity Launcher
Level Limit - Area B
Magical Stone Excavation
Mass Driver
Metamorphosis
Monster Gate
One for One
Pot of Avarice
Primal Seed
Reinforcement of the Army
Scapegoat
Shien's Smoke Signal
Swords of Revealing Light

Ceasefire
Magical Explosion
Magic Cylinder
Mind Crush
Ojama Trio
Time Seal
The Transmigration Prophecy
Torrential Tribute
Ultimate Offering
Wall of Revealing Light

Let the flaming BEGIN!!!!

[ccharlie999]

Originally Posted by Chaos3600

Dark Magician of Chaos
Magician of Faith

I wasn't gunna flame until I read these. GG Let the infinite loops begin.

[WinstonShnozwick]

Please explain the following. (good list, just some confusing parts)

Archlord Krystia
Judgment Dragon
Card Trooper
Dark Magician of Chaos
Magician of Faith
Goyo Guardian
Metamorphosis

[CyberDarkError]

why ban Krystia, JD and allure?

with your list you've hit inzektors and BWs (DaD) meaning no deck worth a damn are going to be using allure

Earth needs to be at 1-2 preferably 1 for damn near the same reason as strat

with DaD and FF gone Red-eyes can stay at 1-2

3 swords 3 level limit 2 Marshmallon and 3 reaper is waaaay to much stall for my taste

with cylinder and strike at 3 chain burn and MST at 2 is going to be topping like mad

I'd rather have DMoC OR Faith back or possibly bring one back wait a format ban then test the other one see what works

meta morphesis with DMoC and Faith all back is going to be so sacky, IF you must do that then ban tragodia

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by ccharlie999

I wasn't gunna flame until I read these. GG Let the infinite loops begin.

What loops are we talking about?

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Please explain the following. (good list, just some confusing parts)

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Archlord Krystia

2800 attack points that Special Summons for free, generates auto +1, locks down Special Summoning, and returns itself when its killed. Its poorly designed, and banning it also allows me to be a little more leinet on things like T.G. Striker, The Agent of Mystery - Earth, and even Master Hyperion.

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Judgment Dragon

3k field nuke that again is summoned for free, moved up Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner and Necro Gardna to 3 in order to make Lightsworns a more viable theme.

It was either this or Charge of the Light Brigade, really.

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Card Trooper

Pseudo-1900 ATK floater that mills off your deck and sets up stupid shenanigans with things like Dandylion, Treeborn Frog, Blackwing - Vayu the Emblem of Honor etc. Card gets really dumb in multiples, and I don't get why Konami ever moved it up.

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Dark Magician of Chaos

No Allure of Darkness means very few ways of constantly abusing him with D.D.R., DDT isn't any good with Monster Gate and Reasoning still at 1, good tech card in Magicals and Monarchs, etc. I felt as though this doesn't need to be banned anymore.

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Magician of Faith

Relatively slow card that doesn't work in all decks. Looping things like Dark Hole and Heavy Storm aren't going to get you that far; recycling searching and drawing is a little better, but still nothing to panic about. I also banned Monster Reborn and Mind Control.

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Goyo Guardian

Level 6 Synchro that provides a lot of firepower, and ONLY firepower. -1 to summon, has to kill something in battle in a meta that is far better built to deal with him, no built in protection, etc. Also makes people think a little more before leaving a big dude such as Stardust Dragon on the board with no protection.

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Metamorphosis

-1 to bring out a Fusion, at 1 copy any combos with Cyber Twin Dragon and Naturia Exterio are not consistant enough to be worth anything, and if they were, I'd just as soon ban the trash fusion instead.

[solomendonca]

Why isn't Mazera DeVille on here? Easy to setup, +2.

Jks, looks alright. Summoner Monk at 3. I like.

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by CyberDarkError

why ban Krystia, JD and allure?

Allure of Darkness is attribute skewed in DARKs favor, fuels what is probably one of the best draw engines in the game, limits varience, soft hit on multiple decks, etc.

Originally Posted by CyberDarkError

with your list you've hit inzektors and BWs (DaD) meaning no deck worth a damn are going to be using allure

I hit one card from each of them + Allure of Darkness (3 if you count all the Hornets)

I highly doubt they are instantly going to be trash.

Originally Posted by CyberDarkError

Earth needs to be at 1-2 preferably 1 for damn near the same reason as strat

Without Archlord Krystia around?

Originally Posted by CyberDarkError

with DaD and FF gone Red-eyes can stay at 1-2

2800 ATK, Special Summon from hand at the low price of 1 Dragon monster, still stupid as **** in Hieratics, spams Dragons all over the place, etc.

Originally Posted by CyberDarkError

3 swords 3 level limit 2 Marshmallon and 3 reaper is waaaay to much stall for my taste

Is it consistant enough?

Make a build of something and I'll see if I ****ed up somewhere.

Originally Posted by CyberDarkError

with cylinder and strike at 3 chain burn and MST at 2 is going to be topping like mad

No Ojama Trio means no stupid interactions with Just Desserts and Secret Barrel, and fewer Mystical Space Typhoons hurts Chain Burn because Royal Decree becomes so much tougher to deal with.

Originally Posted by CyberDarkError

I'd rather have DMoC OR Faith back or possibly bring one back wait a format ban then test the other one see what works

I have been testing with both. Quite honestly I'm seeing problems.

Originally Posted by CyberDarkError

meta morphesis with DMoC and Faith all back is going to be so sacky, IF you must do that then ban tragodia

You mean a 1-of Metamorphosis, 1-of Magician of Faith, and 1-of Dark Magician of Chaos is going to loop around enough to be an actual threat in a meta that can **** all over it?

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by solomendonca

Why isn't Mazera DeVille on here? Easy to setup, +2.

Jks, looks alright. Summoner Monk at 3. I like.

Thank you.

[Super Mario Bro]

I'm rather surprised you didn't put Metamorphosis to 3 and unban TER (among other things we did over at CAF).

Good list is good though.

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by Super Mario Bro

I'm rather surprised you didn't put Metamorphosis to 3 and unban TER (among other things we did over at CAF).

Good list is good though.

Didn't want to make a radical list. Otherwise I'd just say screw it and 3/0 this ****.

[Super Mario Bro]

I don't like pure 3/0 lists, since they have to ban things like Heavy Storm and Dark Hole.

[Sick_Samurai_151]

I do like just about everything you have done here.
This is...very good.

Although, I question why Solemns are banned?

They have rather large drawbacks in the first place and with the likes of DMOC, Goyo etc returning, it would be kind of unfair for this common check / balance to not be there on the other end.

; EDIT

This used to be a very good list. But the OP was compelled to change it for some reason to a 3/0 list.

"sigh"

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by Super Mario Bro

I don't like pure 3/0 lists, since they have to ban things Heavy Storm and Dark Hole.

3/0 doesn't always stay with the numerical varient. Many times they use the limited section sparingly for things like Heavy Storm and Dark Hole, and Mirror Force and Torrential Tribute and Extra Deck cards.

That's it though. . .

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by Sick_Samurai_151

I do like just about everything you have done here.
This is...very good.

Although, I question why Solemns are banned?

They have rather large drawbacks in the first place and with the likes of DMOC, Goyo etc returning, it would be kind of unfair for this common check / balance to not be there on the other end.

Solemn Judgment was an easy choice to me because it goes "lolnou" to whatever the opponent does, and often serves more as an offensive choice than a defensive one.

Solemn Warning was a little tougher, but elected to kill it partially because I moved up Bottomless Trap Hole (and contemplating Book of Moon moving up), but in the end its just to universal for what it does and allows players to use one of the many other means of stopping monsters.

There is still the "check/balance"; its just not universal with Solemn Warning.

[Neverwish]

Explain:
Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon

Should be limited, not banned. Banning will pretty much kill Dragons.

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by Neverwish

Explain:
Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon

Should be limited, not banned. Banning will pretty much kill Dragons.

2800 beater that comes out at the low low price of 1 Dragon, spams the board with other big beaters, causes shenanigans with Hieratics, etc.

Dragons have. . . 141 effect monsters alone, plus a plethoral of other crap at thier disposal, so you can still make different Dragon decks if you wish.

[MeddlingMage]

Would that list really make a more balanced meta? I already one deck would top tier and everyone would play it.

[Sick_Samurai_151]

You may want to consider banning Gateway.
It would be a shame to balance the entire format pretty much, but still allow 1 copy of Samurais instant win card.

Then, in turn, you could put Smoke Signal at 3 and / or Shien at 2/3.

Without the presence of Gateway, even with 3 Shien and 3 Smoke Signal, there really is no way to consistently spam Shien.
All this would do is give a boost to the decks consistency.

Gateway was really the problem the entire time.

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by ReiverDemon2007

Would that list really make a more balanced meta? I already one deck would top tier and everyone would play it.

You sure? I didn't exactly destroy the top decks barring Chaos Dragons, and I took out a couple of more widespread problems as oppossed to individual deck choices.

What one deck are you talking about?

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by Sick_Samurai_151

You may want to consider banning Gateway.
It would be a shame to balance the entire format pretty much, but still allow 1 copy of Samurais instant win card.

Then, in turn, you could put Smoke Signal at 3 and / or Shien at 2/3.

Without the presence of Gateway, even with 3 Shien and 3 Smoke Signal, there really is no way to consistently spam Shien.
All this would do is give a boost to the decks consistency.

Gateway was really the problem the entire time.

To be honest, the Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En lock is pretty much junk without Solemn Judgment and Solemn Warning.

Though Gateway of the Six is pretty dumb, so I will ban it and unlimit Shien's Smoke Signal

[MeddlingMage]

Originally Posted by Chaos3600

You sure? I didn't exactly destroy the top decks barring Chaos Dragons, and I took out a couple of more widespread problems as oppossed to individual deck choices.

What one deck are you talking about?

You left Chain Burn and Final Countdown at it's best.

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by ReiverDemon2007

You left Chain Burn and Final Countdown at it's best.

I banned Ojama Trio and put Mystical Space Typhoon to 1, so Royal Decree still kills it quickly.

Final Countdown. . . I probably did do something wrong on that front.

Trying to decide what I want to kill. . .

[WinstonShnozwick]

Originally Posted by Chaos3600

What loops are we talking about?





2800 attack points that Special Summons for free, generates auto +1, locks down Special Summoning, and returns itself when its killed. Its poorly designed, and banning it also allows me to be a little more leinet on things like T.G. Striker, The Agent of Mystery - Earth, and even Master Hyperion.

I might care to debate you on the summon for free part, since it's restrictions are higher than DaD's, but seeing how stupid that went with chaos dragons and such, I see where you're coming from. However, a few points. Returns itself when killed only works as a plus if you are seriously controlling the duel. I assume that the opponent takes back control or some when they destroy kristya. And then, your graveyard is probably out of whack again so you can't summon kristya. Also, seeing that, it gives your opponent a turn of derp to hit you with because you got a draw that was dead that turn in most cases disregarding valhalla.

3k field nuke that again is summoned for free, moved up Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner and Necro Gardna to 3 in order to make Lightsworns a more viable theme.

It was either this or Charge of the Light Brigade, really.

How are lightsworns a viable theme without even 1 of their boss? All they have is celestia and .. gragonith. What gives them firepower now? (seems a bit harsh, but I know the pain of having him dropped on you, it's almost like DaD)

Pseudo-1900 ATK floater that mills off your deck and sets up stupid shenanigans with things like Dandylion, Treeborn Frog, Blackwing - Vayu the Emblem of Honor etc. Card gets really dumb in multiples, and I don't get why Konami ever moved it up.

Agreed

No Allure of Darkness means very few ways of constantly abusing him with D.D.R., DDT isn't any good with Monster Gate and Reasoning still at 1, good tech card in Magicals and Monarchs, etc. I felt as though this doesn't need to be banned anymore.

Agreed, power creep has given him fair opponents to stand to. And tributes are slow nowadays, with reborn banned it's not a problem. Makes it a VERY fun card for my anti meta random boss monster deck though

Relatively slow card that doesn't work in all decks. Looping things like Dark Hole and Heavy Storm aren't going to get you that far; recycling searching and drawing is a little better, but still nothing to panic about. I also banned Monster Reborn and Mind Control.

I like it. Slow, true.

Level 6 Synchro that provides a lot of firepower, and ONLY firepower. -1 to summon, has to kill something in battle in a meta that is far better built to deal with him, no built in protection, etc. Also makes people think a little more before leaving a big dude such as Stardust Dragon on the board with no protection.

Konami has done a better job of killing synchro monsters than their meklord archetype, so I don't find this a problem.

-1 to bring out a Fusion, at 1 copy any combos with Cyber Twin Dragon and Naturia Exterio are not consistant enough to be worth anything, and if they were, I'd just as soon ban the trash fusion instead.

Inconsistant =/= OK. I just don't like the idea of random OTK's happening occasionally from this.

Thoughts in quote.

[Super Mario Bro]

How are lightsworns a viable theme without even 1 of their boss? All they have is celestia and .. gragonith. What gives them firepower now? (seems a bit harsh, but I know the pain of having him dropped on you, it's almost like DaD)

They would have all of the Lightrays, triple Chaos Sorceror and Tragoedia, plus Synchro power in the form of triple Plaguespreader.

If Lightsworns need a stupid card like Judgment Dragon to be competitive, then they deserve to rot...

Edit: why isn't Plague unlimited??

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

I might care to debate you on the summon for free part, since it's restrictions are higher than DaD's, but seeing how stupid that went with chaos dragons and such, I see where you're coming from. However, a few points. Returns itself when killed only works as a plus if you are seriously controlling the duel. I assume that the opponent takes back control or some when they destroy kristya. And then, your graveyard is probably out of whack again so you can't summon kristya. Also, seeing that, it gives your opponent a turn of derp to hit you with because you got a draw that was dead that turn in most cases disregarding valhalla.

Possibly, but getting that 4th Fairy back in your grave isn't abnormally difficult(harder than Dark Armed Dragon, yes, since Fairies aren't exactly known for grave-manipulation), and as a Fairy player you are going to be cautious unless you get in a position to where losing that Archlord Kristya isn't going to "lock yourself" per se on death. So I question how easy it really is to deal with Archlord Kristya, as I also question its design as a boss monster.

You make valid points; I'm just not sure if that justifies Archlord Kristyia. Its denfinitly one of my "softer" bans.

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

How are lightsworns a viable theme without even 1 of their boss? All they have is celestia and .. gragonith. What gives them firepower now? (seems a bit harsh, but I know the pain of having him dropped on you, it's almost like DaD)

The Celesita you mentioned works well. There are Synchros avaliable with. . . the Plaguespreader Zombie I forgot to unlimit, the Lightpulsars are good, Chaos Sorcerer, etc. Not to mention the deck still has its routine Lumina swarm plays, Lyla and Ryko to pop threats, Jain to beat up people, Wulf to provide advantage and beat up people, etc. Also, without Judgment Dragon, you can cut silly things like Garoth as you no longer need him for the name.

Originally Posted by WinstonShnozwick

Inconsistant =/= OK. I just don't like the idea of random OTK's happening occasionally from this.

If its utter junk, then I doesn't bother me much, though a hit on Cyber Twin Dragon would solve that problem quickly.

[WinstonShnozwick]

Originally Posted by Super Mario Bro

They would have all of the Lightrays, triple Chaos Sorceror and Tragoedia, plus Synchro power in the form of triple Plaguespreader.

If Lightsworns need a stupid card like Judgment Dragon to be competitive, then they deserve to rot...

Edit: why isn't Plague unlimited??

Thanks for enlightening me, honestly. I don't venture into Lightsworns much so all i know about them are the generic cards. I see now.

Lightrays sound cool. Judgement dragon can screw right off.

Possibly, but getting that 4th Fairy back in your grave isn't abnormally difficult(harder than Dark Armed Dragon, yes, since Fairies aren't exactly known for grave-manipulation), and as a Fairy player you are going to be cautious unless you get in a position to where losing that Archlord Kristya isn't going to "lock yourself" per se on death. So I question how easy it really is to deal with Archlord Kristya, as I also question its design as a boss monster.

You make valid points; I'm just not sure if that justifies Archlord Kristyia. Its denfinitly one of my "softer" bans.

Fairy decks are few and far between, but I agree on it's design being badly done. I can live with having fossil dyna.

[mudkip66]

Originally Posted by Chaos3600

2800 beater that comes out at the low low price of 1 Dragon, spams the board with other big beaters, causes shenanigans with Hieratics, etc.

Dragons have. . . 141 effect monsters alone, plus a plethoral of other crap at thier disposal, so you can still make different Dragon decks if you wish.

lol REBMD wasn't a problem till Chaos Drags

[WinstonShnozwick]

Originally Posted by mudkip66

lol REBMD wasn't a problem till Chaos Drags

If you can't make a single decent dragon deck without 1 dragon, you need to stop trying to deckbuild, you're terrible at it. REDMD is just a terrible design by principle. And I don't see chaos dragons being nonexistant now, so it most certainly is a problem.