Why does everyone want Tour guide Banned?

[david0925]

Originally Posted by Suibon

If Deep Sea Diva proves to be as versatile in spitting out Exceed and Synchro options as Tour Guide does in spitting out Rank 3 Exceeds, I'll be the first person to berate it ceaselessly.

Rank 2 and Level 4/5 toolbox aren't as versatile as Rank 3 atm, so it looks OK so far, we'll have to see if the swarming elements in Atlantean theme breaks this balance though.

[DKMagicianGirl]

Once the Rank 2/Level 4/Level 5 Tookbox be as good as Rank 3, I will be behind you for hitting that card as well.

Frankly, if I had it my way, I'll hit it anyway just because it's bad card design.

Using it in Absolute Fortune, the card is about as borked as Tour Guide would be. I still can't believe it didn't see more play back then during the Synchro era.

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by tHeObLiViNaToR

No I'm not sleeping under a rock. I've been to plenty of regionals this format and I've planned my trip to nationals in a few weeks. I know what the meta is like, I've played in it plenty.

I'm all for letting Tour Guide stay at three right now. If more problematic Rank 3 XYZ's are released in the future then so be it, we can float that boat when the time comes. I'm not about to ban are non-problematic card now because in some distance future it breaks the game thanks to the release of another, just get rid of it then and let people play with what they have now.

Also can you name or list some examples of decks that are splashing the TGU engine in it right now? I can't seem to think of any off the top of my head other than Chaos variants, Dino Rabbit, Wind-Ups, a few Inzektors, and a few Chaos Dragons. I don't see it in every deck that I play against.

>Implying more problematic Rank 3's won't be released.

You don't know Konami very well, now do you?

Actually, I would have a harder time naming decks that can't use TGU because it's such a powerful engine that only needs 4 cards and adds so much power and flexibility to the deck, covering up the deck's weaknesses and making it look better than it really is.

X-Saber and Crystal Beast both use it. Fabled use it due to Kushano. Obv. Dino Rabbit, Wind-Ups, Chaos Dragons, Inzektors CAN use it.

The only deck that I can think of that can't use TGU is Final Countdown, Chain Burn, and Six Samurai. Even that Morphing Jar mill deck has even considered running TGU.

[Ninja Dood]

Originally Posted by Suibon

If Deep Sea Diva proves to be as versatile in spitting out Exceed and Synchro options as Tour Guide does in spitting out Rank 3 Exceeds, I'll be the first person to berate it ceaselessly.

Diva has its place in Atlanteans and that's the only place where you can get anywhere near what TGU can do for you. It has more targets which means more decked options for better or worse and spell support in case something goes wrong(solemn all my TGU? gotta wait for Avarice or Daigusto Emeral. Solemn all my Divas? Salvage!) It's extra deck targets won't have TGU's potency though, but I think there's a reason R2 works best in multiples.

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by DKMagicianGirl

Actually, I would have a harder time naming decks that can't use TGU because it's such a powerful engine that only needs 4 cards and adds so much power and flexibility to the deck, covering up the deck's weaknesses and making it look better than it really is.

X-Saber and Crystal Beast both use it. Fabled use it due to Kushano. Obv. Dino Rabbit, Wind-Ups, Chaos Dragons, Inzektors CAN use it.

Zombies need the floating Leviair to move Plague and Mezuki around and keep their CA. If the Levi didn't float to the field you'll lose too much momentum. Koa'ki Meiru use it for M-X Saber Invoker along with the regular Toolbox. Almost all non-archtype based DARK decks... these are just from my list of decks I put TGU in.

[Clear1]

Yeah, Diva is about to explode. Now just watch those people defending those things like they are defending their REMD right now.

I can't count how many decisive plays that I need to make with TGU, only to catch a Veiler in the face. YGO is a game where is about answers to plays, if my answer to your TGU is a Veiler, and you have other plays in your hand. It is over.

It's not like that Dino Rabbit always get god hands, people. Good grief.

[tHeObLiViNaToR]

Originally Posted by DKMagicianGirl

>Implying more problematic Rank 3's won't be released.

You don't know Konami very well, now do you?

Actually, I would have a harder time naming decks that can't use TGU because it's such a powerful engine that only needs 4 cards and adds so much power and flexibility to the deck, covering up the deck's weaknesses and making it look better than it really is.

X-Saber and Crystal Beast both use it. Fabled use it due to Kushano. Obv. Dino Rabbit, Wind-Ups, Chaos Dragons, Inzektors CAN use it.

The only deck that I can think of that can't use TGU is Final Countdown, Chain Burn, and Six Samurai. Even that Morphing Jar mill deck has even considered running TGU.

I never said anything about Konami not releasing more powerful Rank 3 XYZ in the future. I said let people play with Tourguides now and if they do release problematic Rank 3 XYZ monsters then we can re-evaluate TGU then.

That's cool if X-Sabers, Fableds, and CB's use TGU. When those decks dominate the meta by using TGU to go into Rank 3's and starting winning or hell even topping events then I'll look at the possibility of hitting TGU again. But for now let them have the boost that TGU gives them.

I'll tell you that the decks I'm playing right now have no need for TGU. Scraps, Apex Ninjas, FishOTK, RabbitGB, Rock Stun and Psychics have little synergy with her. None of those decks see much play in the meta right now either.

[AcselOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by DKMagicianGirl

Frankly, if I had it my way, I'll hit it anyway just because it's bad card design.

Same here, bad card design is worse than broken cads in some respects.

[Potshie]

tour guide is fyn guyz, just fine..

*hides playset of common tour guides*

it has always been fine. /throw in argument insulting your sexuality, intelligence, or skill in the game.

[AcselOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Grapha

Look I've already gone through this. If you read the OP you'd understand. Tour Guide is not that good. It IS good some decks. But it is not broken, and not good on a level that you're making it out to be. It is as good as Pot of Duality. Good in some decks, terrible in others. Other than making Number 17: Leviathan Dragon and Wind-up Zenmaines, there is almost other reason to use this card.

Leviair the Sea Dragon IS a problem card, especially in Rabbit decks, Wind-up decks, and Inzektor decks as well. If you touch Tour Guide but not leviair, people will just use replacement monsters to make leviair. Sangan is also a problem, being an easily searchable searcher monster. Unfortunately the meta has shifted to turn Sangan into too much of a good card. By hitting these 2 monsters, you effectively rid of Tour guide's main versatility. It would also kill the main problem decks.

Tour Guide is NOT a problem card. Wind-ups without Hunter are nothing, so Tour guide will only add to the deck, not make it worse. Rabbit without leviair is nothing. Especially if Rabbit gets hit too. If you ban Leviair and Sangan, what do you have? Just a good XYZ maker for Rank 3s.

I've read the OP, I've read the thread. From what I've seen you've been saying "Tour Guide isn't good because it doesn't work in the 2 decks I tested it in". Pot of Duality is fairly poor comparison. PoD is good in some decks but not so good in others for a number of reasons, such as draw power, the special summoning clause, etc. Tour Guide is good in most decks as it has no drawbacks.
Leviair is only a major problem in Dino Rabbit and even then it is partly because of how easy it is to summon Leviair though guide. Your an idiot if you think there is some replacement for Tour Guide, we've had numerable threads asking what is a good replacement and all of them say the same: There is no replacement. There is simply no other way to play a 4 card engine that can net you advantage and be splashed in a wide variety of decks. If something similar did exist then Tour Guide wouldn't be so expensive. In short, there are no other major unbalanced ways to drop Tour Guide that can also be used in many different decks. Without Tour Guide you actually need to put some resources into summoning it, which you'll probably lose after a turn due to Leviair's weak body.
Are you trying to advocate the Sangan (along with Leviair) are the problems? Without Sangan we would just play a different level 3 fiend (Tour Bus perhaps). Tour Guide loses no flexibility, you simply can't make your move then set a Call Of The Haunted to revive the Sangan later on when MST/Storm is played. For most decks, Sangan is too slow to be of any use. It just happens to be the best target for Guide.
"Tour Guide is NOT a problem card". Still waiting for you to prove this. Or are you saying that the ability to normal summon any rank 3 when needed is perfectly ok?
"Rabbit without Leviair is nothing". Yeah, sure. Even without Leviair they can still go into one Laggia or Dollka with backrow. You just stopped them going into a second.
Leviair (and all the other rank 3's) only seem like a problem because of how easy they are to make. Tour Guide is the card that makes them so easy to summon. Therefore Tour Guide is the problem. This doesn't even account for all the future rank 3's we'll get.

[john_lee]

If Tour Guide wasn't self interacting it wouldn't be such a problem. Needs to go to 1.

[13DaK]

In my honest opinion, Tour Guide isn't insanely good. I'm not too bothered about her right now. Should there be a change in her status on the ban list? Maybe, but at most I'd semi-limit her. It's not like she's an insta-loose should you not have an out to her. It's not like every deck ever needs her, although her massive splashability does bother me.

[nukm4]

Originally Posted by 13DaK

It's not like she's an insta-loose should you not have an out to her. It's not like every deck ever needs her, although her massive splashability does bother me.

You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of Top 32 YCS decklists this format that haven't listed her. And that's not even an exaggeration.

[Viperkyle]

I just like that thing where people refuse to torrential my field of Sangan and tour guide (thinking I'm going to xyz), and I just poke for 2000 4 times.

[Tiamatt]

I actually quite curious to see where TGU ends up in Sept. On the one hand I would think they would keep it at 3 to make sure the next OCG extra pack sells like hotcakes.

On the other we all still remember the Reborn Tengu semi(seriously imagine a pack with Reborn Tengu and TGU and they were both at 3) so maybe they think it would sell fine with both at 2. That plus they don't like very splashable cards that goes in too many decklists.

Either way it'll be interesting to see how things turn out.

[13DaK]

Originally Posted by nukm4

You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of Top 32 YCS decklists this format that haven't listed her. And that's not even an exaggeration.

While this may be true, I doubt she will be banned. Being at 2 should hurt her playability enough so that she isn't as insanely splashable as she is right now, while still being powerful and certainly usable within the right deck.

[DKMagicianGirl]

Originally Posted by Clear1

Yeah, Diva is about to explode. Now just watch those people defending those things like they are defending their REMD right now.

I can't count how many decisive plays that I need to make with TGU, only to catch a Veiler in the face. YGO is a game where is about answers to plays, if my answer to your TGU is a Veiler, and you have other plays in your hand. It is over.

It's not like that Dino Rabbit always get god hands, people. Good grief.

I rather Veiler to be optional. However, it's mandatory just so you can "counter" broken game-warping cards like REDMD, Tour Guide, Rescue Rabbit, Dragonfly, Wind-Up Rat/Zenmaity, etc etc.

But no.....since we got Veiler, those previously-mentioned cards is all nice, fine, and dandy for the game.

With that line of thinking, we might as well bring all of the banned cards back.

Every last one of them.

We got counters for all of that. Same thing with Exodia pieces all back at 3. We got Mind Crush to defeat Exodia. That shouldn't be a problem.

[Ninja Dood]

You have to set Mind Crush so that won't work and don't you dare suggest a Hand control hand trap(as beautifully broken as that may be)

[DKMagicianGirl]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dood

You have to set Mind Crush so that won't work and don't you dare suggest a Hand control hand trap(as beautifully broken as that may be)

Why not? We got one that draws off of every Special Summon.

I'm sure one of them is not that far away as a core set Secret Rare.

[Ninja Dood]

This Hand Trap has to be light to balance out Hand Trap Chaos. All I would want is 3 months.