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Old 12-09-2011, 10:46 PM   #1
TedTheMan
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Default Doomcaliber vs Tragoedia

Opponent attacks my Doomcaliber Knight with a 2000atk monster.

Can I summon Tragoedia from my hand without my Doomcaliber negating its effect?
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:51 PM   #2
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No, Doom still must negate your Tradoedia.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:57 PM   #3
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Doomcaliber Knight has been destroyed in battle and while it may not be at the GY at that point, it is still "destroyed" and can no longer activate its effect... So indeed you may activate Tragoedia's effect without it being negated by DCK...

This is similar to a Red Dragon Archfiend destroying a Stardust Dragon in DEF mode...
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gateguardian44 View Post
Doomcaliber Knight has been destroyed in battle and while it may not be at the GY at that point, it is still "destroyed" and can no longer activate its effect... So indeed you may activate Tragoedia's effect without it being negated by DCK...

This is similar to a Red Dragon Archfiend destroying a Stardust Dragon in DEF mode...
Thanks, this is what I was trying to confirm.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gateguardian44 View Post
Doomcaliber Knight has been destroyed in battle and while it may not be at the GY at that point, it is still "destroyed" and can no longer activate its effect... So indeed you may activate Tragoedia's effect without it being negated by DCK...

This is similar to a Red Dragon Archfiend destroying a Stardust Dragon in DEF mode...
Doom has mandatory quick effect and it must active, as long as it still face-up on the field.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gateguardian44 View Post
Doomcaliber Knight has been destroyed in battle and while it may not be at the GY at that point, it is still "destroyed" and can no longer activate its effect... So indeed you may activate Tragoedia's effect without it being negated by DCK...

This is similar to a Red Dragon Archfiend destroying a Stardust Dragon in DEF mode...


Damage is calculated before the monster is actually destroyed. Tragoedia activates when damage is taken, and is special summoned before the monster dies. Therefore, Doomcaliber Knight is still face up on the field when Tragoedia's effect activates, and Doomcal will negate it.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyan Deathrow View Post
Damage is calculated before the monster is actually destroyed. Tragoedia activates when damage is taken, and is special summoned before the monster dies. Therefore, Doomcaliber Knight is still face up on the field when Tragoedia's effect activates, and Doomcal will negate it.
Incorrect. Damage Calculation is Sub-Step 4. Damage done to a player is Sub-Step 5.

See Kycoo vs Aurkus.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
If "Doomcaliber Knight" is destroyed by battle and an Effect Monster's effect activates after damage calculation ("D.D. Warrior Lady", etc.), "Doomcaliber Knight's" effect still activates.
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Ru...caliber_Knight
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicknight94 View Post
Under "Previously Official Rulings".
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedTheMan View Post
Under "Previously Official Rulings".
And... ???

Like I said, Mandatory Quick Effect like Doom, LADD, etc. must be actived, even if you destroy them by battle. However, Optional Quick Effect cannot.

Last edited by magicknight94 : 12-09-2011 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedTheMan View Post
Under "Previously Official Rulings".
I hope you're not implying "Previously official" means "wrong"
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedTheMan View Post
Under "Previously Official Rulings".


but because there is no new official ruling on this, we're forced to go with the previous...
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedTheMan View Post
Under "Previously Official Rulings".
If you already made up an answer for yourself, why did you ask the question to begin with?

These guys are right, and the ruling is right. Since "Doomcaliber Knight" is mandatory, it will activate even in this case. It will negate the activation of "Tragoedia"'s effect and destroy it.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jingrock View Post
I hope you're not implying "Previously official" means "wrong"
I'm implying that new rules that show that a destroyed monster cannot activate its effects like Herald/Stardust vs Red Dragon Archfiend, it's probably more official to follow those rulings.

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
If you already made up an answer for yourself, why did you ask the question to begin with?

These guys are right, and the ruling is right. Since "Doomcaliber Knight" is mandatory, it will activate even in this case. It will negate the activation of "Tragoedia"'s effect and destroy it.
To confirm a ruling. Does that not make sense to you?

Last edited by TedTheMan : 12-09-2011 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedTheMan View Post
I'm implying that new rules that show that a destroyed monster cannot activate its effects like Herald/Stardust vs Red Dragon Archfiend, it's probably more official to follow those rulings.
Again, "Stardust Dragon" does not have any mandatory effects. By your logic, Flip Effects should never work when a stronger monster attacks one.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
Again, "Stardust Dragon" does not have any mandatory effects. By your logic, Flip Effects should never work when a stronger monster attacks one.
Okay so Mandatory Fossil Dyna, I can't summon Tragoedia if they attack over it?

Also, flip effect happen because their condition, being flipped, was met before destroyed, so no, my logic isn't flawed.

Last edited by TedTheMan : 12-09-2011 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:37 PM   #17
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Those rulings don't apply for the precise reason you've been given - Doomcaliber Knight's effect is mandatory while Stardust Dragon and Herald are both optional effects.

Also, for bonus points: The ruling on Stardust Dragon that says you can't activate it when Red Dragon Archfiend destroys it in Defense Mode is also marked on the wikia as "Previously Official".
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedTheMan View Post
Okay so Mandatory Fossil Dyna, I can't summon Tragoedia if they attack over it?
There is nothing called "Mandatory Fossil Dyna". Fossil Dyna's effect preventing summoning is Continous Effect, not Mandatory Trigger Effect.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:41 PM   #19
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Also... I was under the impression that Stardust could negate Red Dragon... but if not, could someone please explain why...
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyan Deathrow View Post
Also... I was under the impression that Stardust could negate Red Dragon... but if not, could someone please explain why...
Your impression is right, if RDA doesn't destroy Stardust by battle only. If it does, Optional Trigger Effect of it cannot be actived after its destruction.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Okay so Mandatory Fossil Dyna, I can't summon Tragoedia if they attack over it?
We should separate "Mandatory" from "Continuous" since they don't operate the same way. In this case, since Continuous Effects stop applying once the monster is considered to be destroyed in battle you can summon Tragoedia when you take Battle Damage from a battle which destroys Fossil Dyna.

Quote:
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Also... I was under the impression that Stardust could negate Red Dragon... but if not, could someone please explain why...
You can't activate an optional quick effect of a monster that has been destroyed in battle (unless the effect somehow requires the monster to be destroyed in battle to activate). If Stardust is the Defense Position Monster that gets attacked and it's destroyed in the battle then it cannot negate Red Dragon Archfiend.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedTheMan View Post
Okay so Mandatory Fossil Dyna, I can't summon Tragoedia if they attack over it?
Continuous effects are a different matter.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixrawr View Post
You can't activate an optional quick effect of a monster that has been destroyed in battle (unless the effect somehow requires the monster to be destroyed in battle to activate). If Stardust is the Defense Position Monster that gets attacked and it's destroyed in the battle then it cannot negate Red Dragon Archfiend.

Oh, yea I knew that... it's late here and for some reason I was thinking that it was during EP and the stardust hadn't attacked... derp moment...

One question though.. I know if Stardust is the one attacked by RDA, it can't use it's effect.. but say there are 3 monsters on your side of the field, and your opponent is stupid enough to attack one of the others that aren't Stardust.. then Stardust's effect would be applicable right?
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:18 AM   #24
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