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Old 12-06-2011, 03:45 AM   #1
Dejection
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Default Tragoedia vs Gladiator Beast War Chariot

While in Kansas City at the Kansas City YCS, the head judge of the tournament made a ruling that I don't understand. He ruled that the special summoning of Tragoedia could not be negated by Gladiator Beast War Chariot. The special summoning was a result of Tragoedia's effect that special summons it when the player takes battle damage.

I can only think of one way that his ruling could make sense. It would make sense if the effect of Tragoedia that special summons him from the hand is not actually an effect, but a summoning condition, similar to Judgment Dragon. However, this isn't the case or else Solemn Judgment could be used to negate the special summon.

This ruling has really confused me because people have started to cite it whenever I use any similar effect to stop Tragoedia. It gets really confusing when they say you can't negate the effect with Gladiator Beast War Chariot, and you can't negate the summon with Solemn Judgment. If you can't stop the summoning, or the effect of summoning, then you wouldn't even be able to use Solemn Warning on Tragoedia.

Somebody want a crack at explaining this one?
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:56 AM   #2
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Could you please provide a source?
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejection View Post
While in Kansas City at the Kansas City YCS, the head judge of the tournament made a ruling that I don't understand. He ruled that the special summoning of Tragoedia could not be negated by Gladiator Beast War Chariot. The special summoning was a result of Tragoedia's effect that special summons it when the player takes battle damage.

I can only think of one way that his ruling could make sense. It would make sense if the effect of Tragoedia that special summons him from the hand is not actually an effect, but a summoning condition, similar to Judgment Dragon. However, this isn't the case or else Solemn Judgment could be used to negate the special summon.

This ruling has really confused me because people have started to cite it whenever I use any similar effect to stop Tragoedia. It gets really confusing when they say you can't negate the effect with Gladiator Beast War Chariot, and you can't negate the summon with Solemn Judgment. If you can't stop the summoning, or the effect of summoning, then you wouldn't even be able to use Solemn Warning on Tragoedia.

Somebody want a crack at explaining this one?
Yeah, "the special summon" of Tragoedia cannot be negate by Chariot (nothing can). However, activation of Tragoedia on hand can be negated by Chariot.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:57 AM   #4
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Were you told this personally by the HJ, or were you told by "Some Guy Who Was There"?
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:07 AM   #5
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He posts here from time to time, but my guess knowing him is that you misinterpreted the ruling or was only told this from a secondary source.

"Gladiator Beast War Chariot" and "Solemn Warning" can negate the activation of the effect of "Tragoedia", but cannot negate the resulting Summon (no card can). Maybe you allowed the effect when asked for a response and decided to flip War Chariot after "Tragoedia" was placed on the field?
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:15 PM   #6
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Could you tell me how I could provide a source please?

I think its pretty obvious that war chariot can't stop special summons. You probably should have just assumed that I was talking about the monster effect that special summons him.

The judge ruled that war chariot could not stop any part of his special summoning, effect included. I just want to know if he was completely wrong on this and if I should play like he was completely wrong. The rulings made at the YCS's do kinda matter because they set a precedent (much like the supreme court) so other judges might start ruling the same.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:20 PM   #7
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Could you tell me how I could provide a source please?
Provide a source for what, exactly?

The ruling given is not true, and judges aren't going to start ruling it that way.

By the way, could you describe the situation? Which cards players had on the field, etc.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:45 PM   #8
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Case law rarely applies in Yugioh. For instance, none of us has clear access to what has been ruled. If a judge wishes to rule the way a ruling was given in a previous event rather than interpretating the situation him/herself, that's that judge's decision.

The ruling has no grounds to be valid, nor is even plausible for it to be true. Tragoedia has a Trigger Effect, no matter how you look at it (PSCT, has a colon). Chariot negates an effect's activation and can be activated during the Damage Step because it's a Counter Trap Card. Add two and two together, and the answer is that Chariot can negate the activation of Tragoedia's effect.


Much like Redshift says, someone at some point must have misinterpretated what Chariot can and can't negate.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:51 PM   #9
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Thank you for the quick replies. It was very helpful.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Could you tell me how I could provide a source please?
I was hoping the ruling was recorded somewhere on the internet.
I thought such a strange ruling would have been mentioned by someone other than you (especially if the ruling was made by the head judge).
Anyway, what everyone else said is obviously correct. Tragoedia is not immune to having its effect negated.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:17 PM   #11
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So does Gladiator Beast War Chariot Negate Tragoedia? work? Why is such an important question left in mystery.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:19 PM   #12
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So does Gladiator Beast War Chariot Negate Tragoedia? work? Why is such an important question left in mystery.

The question was answered... War Chariot will negate Tragoedia's effect to special summon itself.
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