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Old 10-23-2011, 01:56 PM   #1
WeiWei
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Default No Skill Game

Title pretty much sums up Yugioh.

I'm getting tired of all the scrubs on here saying that a specific deck takes no skills to play. I have played many decks, and every deck is like that. You know where the skill comes into Yugioh? The deck building. And considering how the top decks are always the same deck, most players who top have no skills.

Let me give you an example of skill. The first player who topped running Leeching the Light. This was skilled. Doing something different that no one beforehand has done before and succeeding with it. Now, many players here are competitive players. And you want to play to win and in order to do that, you play decks that win. Those decks win because they have very good plays that are only given to those decks and you'll obviously go to them. One example is Grapha. Getting real tired of people saying stuff along the lines of "Herp Derp, return to hand, Summon Grapha." Obviously Sherlock Holmes, if a player had Grapha in the graveyard, he would summon it if he wanted to win. Or how Agents require no skill because they "Herp Derp, Hyperion, attack for game." Again, very smart. He's clearly not gonna Summon Hyperion, pop a card and end his turn.

And if Konami made the format slow and banned everything but the normal monster and the strongest monster in the game was Kuriboh, then Kuriboh by defintion would require no skills because he'll "Herp Derp Summon Kuriboh, and attack directly." NO SKILLZ.

Do you understand? This game can only have skills in the deck building and topping at the same time but since that's happen so rarely, this game has little to no skills. Deal with it, stop saying a deck has no skills to play because in reality, no deck has skill.

There is really no point of this thread besides to tell you guys to stop using a bad argument instead of posting it in a thread where only a few people will see it. This is in defense of the top meta deck and me telling you to leave them alone. Yes, discussing them on how they're doing is fine and if they warrant a banned or whatever, but keeping seeing people talking about skills.... that's just nerve wrecking.

The list is used to hit problems in the meta, not future problems or possible future problems.

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Old 10-23-2011, 02:13 PM   #2
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OP is obviously butthurt that his Kuriboh deck sucks.
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:17 PM   #3
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:20 PM   #4
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All these people care too much about control and burn decks being top tier and one deck formats.

Personally, I like that YGO is not trying to be Babby's first Magic; but it might go too far.
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:25 PM   #5
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ahh the age old excuse for people who cant win because theyre bad

if theres no skill in yugioh why have i won like half of my last 20 local tournaments? yeah its a locals so its not the highest competition available but surely luck alone would not place me there that many times out of 20+ other people
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:42 PM   #6
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I run multiple different decks.... I don't run Kuriboh, I run Gem Knight, Laval and the likes. My point isn't about how good the Meta decks are, it's about how players are seriously saying that a certain archetype has no skills to play when in reality, this entire game is based on luck and never skill.

You might not believe me but try out any deck you want for a long enough time and you'll see how much auto plays you are making rather than considerate thoughtful plays.

And mikeholland, you win because you have better cards or you understand the plays on them better. But compare yourself to a regional competition and almost everyone is on the same level playing field... then it's all luck.

Sure I can be better than 100 of my friends and call it skill but I have always consider me winning luck unless the other player is bad. Then, i call it playing against noobs. Never skill.
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:43 PM   #7
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Yes Yugioh is a bad game for skill. This isn't news.
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Originally Posted by Pojo Idiots View Post
THIS YUGIOH CARD GENERATES MORE THAN A +0, THEREFORE IT IS ABUSABLE, BANWORTHY, ADDS TO THE POWER CREEP, DEGENERATE, FUELS OTKS, UNFAIR, IMBALANCED, TOO POWERFUL, AND SHOULD BE BANNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:46 PM   #8
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Yes Yugioh is a bad game for skill. This isn't news.
Exactly. And clearly, the players above all think that Yugioh has some level of skill that everyone else isn't seeing. My original was to them.
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:48 PM   #9
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yea this game takes no skill, but somehow the same player won back 2 back ycses?
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:50 PM   #10
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You do know people pay people off/cheat/shark/stack/etc to win in YCS's, right?
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THIS YUGIOH CARD GENERATES MORE THAN A +0, THEREFORE IT IS ABUSABLE, BANWORTHY, ADDS TO THE POWER CREEP, DEGENERATE, FUELS OTKS, UNFAIR, IMBALANCED, TOO POWERFUL, AND SHOULD BE BANNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:50 PM   #11
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yugioh has luck involved in the same sense that most pvp has critical hits involved. either way the better players are still going to come out on top the majority of the time

how can you even sit there and think yugioh takes no skill? every player can be lucky, not every player can win /arguement
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Battosai-Shien View Post
yea this game takes no skill, but somehow the same player won back 2 back ycses?
Lightning hits the same spot more than once. Does that mean lightning has skills too?

I'm not calling the player sacky (okay, maybe a little) but luck has way too much of an impact. Anyway, the point isn't the Players have no skill, I'm directing this on the archetypes.

People state the "Agents" or "Dark World" take no skills to play. I'm defending them by saying that no decks that skills to play.
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:53 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by WeiWei View Post
Lightning hits the same spot more than once. Does that mean lightning has skills too?

I'm not calling the player sacky (okay, maybe a little) but luck has way too much of an impact. Anyway, the point isn't the Players have no skill, I'm directing this on the archetypes.

People state the "Agents" or "Dark World" take no skills to play. I'm defending them by saying that no decks that skills to play.
people say those decks take no skill to play because they always do the exact same thing regardless of the gamestate. there are plenty of decks where your plays do change based on the gamestate and these are the more skilled decks
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:57 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mikeholland View Post
people say those decks take no skill to play because they always do the exact same thing regardless of the gamestate. there are plenty of decks where your plays do change based on the gamestate and these are the more skilled decks
Yes, I already agreed with all of this. I'm saying I'm getting tired of people saying it takes no skill. There are decks that have to change their plays to a game state. But I recalled when Gladiator Beast were Tier 1, people were all screaming "Gladiator Beast takes no skill" because they "Herp derp, destroy" contact, destroy more"

Do you get what I'm trying to say? The entire concept of skills in Yugioh is so limited because there are always plays that you'll rather go into than not. Gladiator Beast is my main example because they are a skilled deck in compared with other decks but in the end, they will usually be relying on the same moves due to the Meta being the same.
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Old 10-23-2011, 03:06 PM   #15
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The concept of skill generally comes from a deck that isn't the exact same plays repeated or the same one monster to be summoned and also deckbuilding, siding, and even predicting your own meta.

By this extension I would call Plants and Glads more skilled than others but a lot of the skill abnd what leads to continuous wins/tops at YCSs a lot of the time is from perceptive and well rounded players who know how to play and ARE skilled.
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Old 10-23-2011, 03:06 PM   #16
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Yugioh's game mechanics make it hard to express skill in the game.
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Originally Posted by Pojo Idiots View Post
THIS YUGIOH CARD GENERATES MORE THAN A +0, THEREFORE IT IS ABUSABLE, BANWORTHY, ADDS TO THE POWER CREEP, DEGENERATE, FUELS OTKS, UNFAIR, IMBALANCED, TOO POWERFUL, AND SHOULD BE BANNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:49 PM   #17
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeholland View Post
ahh the age old excuse for people who cant win because theyre bad

if theres no skill in yugioh why have i won like half of my last 20 local tournaments? yeah its a locals so its not the highest competition available but surely luck alone would not place me there that many times out of 20+ other people
>local

Top consistently at a regional then we'll talk. Also >assuming everyone has the same quality of cards due to funding constraints.

You may simply be able to afford a better deck than the rest of your local players.

Yes, skill matters in certain instances. But it is not relevant to the game in a general sense (not enough to influence a banlist). The real skill is from deckbuilding.
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:08 PM   #19
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If it doesn't have skill how come the same people top?

it it was skillless you wouldn't see repeat winners
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:21 PM   #20
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Cause they use the best cards?
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:22 PM   #21
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Cause they use the best cards?
a lot of people have the same cards.
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:46 AM   #22
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20 plants in top 32 mostly the same build

same guy wins twice in a row

cause there's no skill right?
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:46 AM   #23
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so you are saying since the game is already so borked we should just not care about it at all and just let any cards come in regardless as to how they affect the game because AFTER ALL the game is so far gone and takes no effort to win a match why even try to keep some pseudo equilibrium?

I could care less about this "skill" I just want cards that auto win games for you dead. Cards that take no effort to use but offer you massive game winning advantages. I feel cards with those type of effects should require effort to get out. Cards like DAD or Trish or Kristya may as well have no summoning requirements at all yet they can win you the game fairly easily.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:49 AM   #24
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Skill is always involved in a game, even if the majority of how the game is played relies on luck, making the right plays at the right time, correctly reading into what your opponent is running and holding and then playing to it accordingly are all areas where skill is expressed.

For instance:

My opponent has first turn, sets a monster and then sets 4 and ends, either he is bluffing or most likely he has no fear of me opening with Heavy Storm in my opening hand because he has set a Starlight Road.
If I stupidly play Heavy Storm which he then negates and gets a Stardust Dragon as well then not only has he gained advantage over me, but I may have also cost myself game right there.
However luck only factored in when he drew Starlight Road, however had he not drew it, more than likely he would not have set 3 and ended.
And even if he has Solemn Judgment, 4000 is a lot to be giving up early game.

However normally if you were confronted by that situation you would play a MST if you had one in the hope of hitting the set Starlight Road, and if I did, then I would play Heavy Storm, the only luck involved there is weather or not I hit Starlight Road blind Misting.


As the game still requires good deck building, strategy, and choice, ALL of which are factors of SKILL, LUCK cannot be the entire factor behind the game, otherwise I would be able to make a mish-mash deck and beat decks like Tele-DAD when it was at full strength or the current Agents with little to no difficulty. Or even going against Six Sam's second turn of last format.
One can be assured that I would have no chance whatsoever, regardless of weather or not I got first turn or not.

Like it or not, skill defines the good players and the bad players, luck often defines which good player beats which, and what bad player beats which or how easily a good player beats a bad player.
The only other factor in the game is what cards someone has access to, and that is defined only by how much money one has, something that has no skill or luck effect on the game, but certainly does increase ones chances of success!!!

And as much as I hate to have to say it, even the mega herp derp spam decks, that "Loop" Trishula to destroy your opponents hand even before they have had a turn, or Sams when they were at full strength or even opening with Trap Dustshoot and Mind Crush, although they require all an element of luck, and some require good deck building to successfully pull off, properly utilizing decks that require specific plays to win (Fish OTK) require skill to ensure that all of the combo's are pulled off correctly, and even Loops (Trishula) require that all of the steps are played in the correct order, as even stuffing up 1 of those steps could leave your hand and field exhausted and defenceless only to then get destroyed in subsequent turns by an annoyed opponent.


So to all of you "LUCK" advocates out there, if the game really only requires LUCK, then play reckless, don't think about your plays and don't even build proper competitive decks, after all with almighty LUCK on your side you are sure to win each and every game.

However those of us that utilise SKILL and embrace luck for what it truly is (the random chance of the game) and make the best out of each and every situation and problem that faces us will have a much easier time winning against you than we already did.

That's my $5 worth!!!
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:44 AM   #25
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Quote:
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so you are saying since the game is already so borked we should just not care about it at all and just let any cards come in regardless as to how they affect the game because AFTER ALL the game is so far gone and takes no effort to win a match why even try to keep some pseudo equilibrium?

I could care less about this "skill" I just want cards that auto win games for you dead. Cards that take no effort to use but offer you massive game winning advantages. I feel cards with those type of effects should require effort to get out. Cards like DAD or Trish or Kristya may as well have no summoning requirements at all yet they can win you the game fairly easily.
Agree with just about everything here except for bold...

@ bolded print: I love how you seem to be under some sort of impression that you can do anything about it.
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