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Old 01-08-2017, 10:02 PM   #26
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And with that one card that searches out "Pendulum" cards... yeah, I can see how that can be bad, though is Zarc considered that bad of a card to play against? I would honestly think that playing Zarc.dek would be considered, but written off as impractical.
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:36 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by XabinOtter View Post
And with that one card that searches out "Pendulum" cards... yeah, I can see how that can be bad, though is Zarc considered that bad of a card to play against? I would honestly think that playing Zarc.dek would be considered, but written off as impractical.
Zarc.dek is probably bad. It takes too much work and investment and forces a suboptimal build to get it out. Magicians spamming Synchros and Xyz is more than enough.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:30 PM   #28
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Zarc.dek is probably bad. It takes too much work and investment and forces a suboptimal build to get it out. Magicians spamming Synchros and Xyz is more than enough.
Zarc is already easy enough to summon in any dragon magician build. You can easily get him out on your second turn. The whole summon Zarc with dragons mirror or mega zaborg or whatever is just a show off deck.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:54 PM   #29
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unless you are qli
This was part of what I was wondering.

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it is pretty much every good pendulum deck's only way to be viable.
So then, the question is, if it's the only way to make the mechanic viable and the mechanic generally isn't worthwhile without it, why is it bad card design?
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:01 AM   #30
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So then, the question is, if it's the only way to make the mechanic viable and the mechanic generally isn't worthwhile without it, why is it bad card design?
It's a very fine line between where it's okay and going overboard.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:29 PM   #31
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Okay, so even without Zarc, the Dimensional Magicians with Luster Pendulum prove to be bad news, and they're easily searchable with cards like Amazing Pendulum, Pendulum Call, and Duelist Advent. That is bad. Yeah, I can see why it would remain limited or become outright banned, once the cards come out...
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:05 PM   #32
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So then, the question is, if it's the only way to make the mechanic viable and the mechanic generally isn't worthwhile without it, why is it bad card design?
It's bad because it gives you free cards that continue to be free forever (unless you xyz). It's like one archetype's gimmick except expanded to an entire mechanic.

I guess my main issue is that the pendulum mechanic is poorly designed all around and needs free cards to prop it up, like fusion and ritual, but with less diversity in the ways it can do it.
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:47 PM   #33
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It's bad because it gives you free cards that continue to be free forever (unless you xyz). It's like one archetype's gimmick except expanded to an entire mechanic.

I guess my main issue is that the pendulum mechanic is poorly designed all around and needs free cards to prop it up, like fusion and ritual, but with less diversity in the ways it can do it.
They should've just not done the whole constant recursion thing and just made better pendulum effects so setting the scales wouldn't be a -2.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:34 AM   #34
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They should've just not done the whole constant recursion thing and just made better pendulum effects so setting the scales wouldn't be a -2.
We're possibly at the end of the pendulum era and it's sad how few of these we ended up getting that wasn't just filling the extra deck.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:07 AM   #35
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I'm not sure how this'll change, once we get that card that specifically searches out "Pendulum" Cards, but right now it seems that the Dracorival archetype isn't doing very well in terms of being popular or useful. Everyone's looking more into Metalfoes or the upcoming Zarc cards for a pendulum engine. Even with the engine in question, more people are looking at the Normals, Vector and Master,, than Effect monsters Luster and Lector. As such, would it be okay to put Luster Pendulum Back at 3, or at least bump it up to 2?
I see someone else watches dpYGO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1lpaGl62tg


Short answer not no but HELLLL no its already getting so much crap to search it out
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:23 PM   #36
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We're possibly at the end of the pendulum era and it's sad how few of these we ended up getting that wasn't just filling the extra deck.
Well, there was Amorphage, which focused on flood-gating the opponent... and it sucked. There was Dinomist, which focused on gaining advantage in battle... and it sucked. There was Zefra, which tried combining five different summoning techniques... and it sucked. Then there's Majespecters, which focused on searching and stunning the opponent, which was actually pretty good (unfortunately). There was also Qlis, which focused on Tribute Summoning and flood-gating, and it was very good, at least in its prime.

So that's five archetypes compared to the 4-5 archetypes that DID focus on filling up the Extra Deck (Magicians, Igknights, Metalfoes, Performage and Pals, Draco).

I don't think the issue was that Konami didn't make enough archetypes that aren't about filling up the Extra Deck, but that they suck at designing archetypes that do something other than pop your own ****.

With that said, I DO hope Zefras are able to make some sort of impact with the new support they're getting soon, though it's probably unlikely.

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Old 01-11-2017, 03:01 PM   #37
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Well, there was Amorphage, which focused on flood-gating the opponent... and it sucked. There was Dinomist, which focused on gaining advantage in battle... and it sucked. There was Zefra, which tried combining five different summoning techniques... and it sucked. Then there's Majespecters, which focused on searching and stunning the opponent, which was actually pretty good (unfortunately). There was also Qlis, which focused on Tribute Summoning and flood-gating, and it was very good, at least in its prime.

So that's five archetypes compared to the 4-5 archetypes that DID focus on filling up the Extra Deck (Magicians, Igknights, Metalfoes, Performage and Pals, Draco).

I don't think the issue was that Konami didn't make enough archetypes that aren't about filling up the Extra Deck, but that they suck at designing archetypes that do something other than pop your own ****.

With that said, I DO hope Zefras are able to make some sort of impact with the new support they're getting soon, though it's probably unlikely.
He's talking about the pendulum effect specifically. Out of all of those decks, which ones actually have good pendulum effects that don't just try to fill your extra deck? Metalfoes is pretty much it, and even then they pop their own cards which often leads to them filling up their extra deck.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:10 PM   #38
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I see someone else watches dpYGO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1lpaGl62tg


Short answer not no but HELLLL no its already getting so much crap to search it out
Never heard of that, so I can't say that I've watched it before.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:40 PM   #39
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The card itself would be mediocre if not for all those pendulms that floats as a scale.

Pre plushfire this saw zero meta use.

Luster is an unfortunate casualty of harebrained power creep.

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Old 01-12-2017, 03:52 AM   #40
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He's talking about the pendulum effect specifically. Out of all of those decks, which ones actually have good pendulum effects that don't just try to fill your extra deck? Metalfoes is pretty much it, and even then they pop their own cards which often leads to them filling up their extra deck.
Oh, I didn't read the part where he mentioned that there were only a FEW Decks that had good Pendulum Effects. My bad lol

It is true that a majority of the meta Pendulum Decks have monsters whose Pendulum Effects rely quite a bit on popping your own things, the major offenders being Metalfoes, Wisdom-Eye, and Dracos.

In terms of Pendulum Effects, Scout still has a very good Pendulum effect, and to be fair, Dinomist, D/D/Ds, and Lunalights have pretty decent effects on some of their Pendulum cards, even if they're not exactly meta. A majority of Amorphage's gameplan is based on their Pendulum Effects, though they need more reliable ways to get monsters on the field. From the sound of it, I'm guessing people are looking for Pendulum effects less like Metalfoes, and more like Abyss Ragnarok.

That said, I am curious as to why we are only focused on the Pendulum effect aspect of Pendulum Monsters. I do think it's important to talk about the Monster effect of Pendulum Monsters as well, especially since some of them don't revolve around the self-pop strategy.

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