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Old 02-17-2017, 09:34 AM   #651
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Have I missed the discussion about the Twilightsworn?

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Punishment_Dragon
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Jain,_T...tsworn_General

I am oddly enthusiastic and sceptical about this.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:43 AM   #652
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Originally Posted by Taralom View Post
Have I missed the discussion about the Twilightsworn?

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Punishment_Dragon
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Jain,_T...tsworn_General

I am oddly enthusiastic and sceptical about this.
Jain is decent i guess, the jd on the other hand is insane, basically a Necroface for snowsworn which can also disrupt enemy grave setup for the cost of 1000 Lp and searchable by a (reusable) Eclipse Wyvern for nearly endless ressources

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Old 02-17-2017, 11:22 AM   #653
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Punishment Dragon seems like a harder to summon JD with a much worse effect. I'm more interested in Jain. Its effect is pretty useful and enables Leviair plays which you can summon by means of Lumina into Lumina. I hope they give Lightsworns more support than this.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:40 AM   #654
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I don't think it's a coincidence that Lightsworn is getting more support in Code of the Duelist. I feel like Lightsworns could be Tier 1 under the new mechanics
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:45 AM   #655
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I don't think it's a coincidence that Lightsworn is getting more support in Code of the Duelist. I feel like Lightsworns could be Tier 1 under the new mechanics
I think that entirely depends on how the introduction of Link monsters works out. But I see what you mean, if the game slows down enough because of the Extra Deck nerf then JD.deck could be restored to its former glory. I don't know if pendulum summoning turn 1 being forbidden is confirmed news or not, but if it is not then I'm afraid those have a much higher chance of being tier 1, especially Qliphorts.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:48 AM   #656
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Originally Posted by Cibicida View Post
I think that entirely depends on how the introduction of Link monsters works out. But I see what you mean, if the game slows down enough because of the Extra Deck nerf then JD.deck could be restored to its former glory. I don't know if pendulum summoning turn 1 being forbidden is confirmed news or not, but if it is not then I'm afraid those have a much higher chance of being tier 1, especially Qliphorts.
Qli is hurt more by the new Pendulum Zone rule than basically any other Pendulum deck. They can't effectively use Card of Demise like they've been. If anything, Metal Zoo will be the best Pendulum deck.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:28 PM   #657
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Metalfoes are Fusion based, Zoodiacs are heavily rank 4 based. They'll have to fit Link monsters in their extra deck next to the Zoodiac engine and the Metalfoe fusions which I don't see how they will pull that off. That's why I said Qli's, they don't rely on the ED. But at this point all is speculation anyway.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:31 PM   #658
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Metalfoes are Fusion based, Zoodiacs are heavily rank 4 based. They'll have to fit Link monsters in their extra deck next to the Zoodiac engine and the Metalfoe fusions which I don't see how they will pull that off. That's why I said Qli's, they don't rely on the ED. But at this point all is speculation anyway.
The Zoodiacs themselves facilitate Link Summons and still search out Scales in the process. In addition to generic 1-8 Scales giving access to bosses like Thunder Bird.

Qli loses either its ability to Pendulum Summon (or avoid discarding Scales) or 2 of its backrow slots which was its entire niche.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:36 PM   #659
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This is one of the decks I always keep in case of an emergency and the new monsters have me interested.

Maybe my vision for a return to JDeck has become a reality though at an extremely high cost.
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:13 PM   #660
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Without question, any true Lightsworn collector is going to want these cards, whether to play or just have.

It's almost deja-vu. I was just the other day talking about how we needed new support, right? Not even a week after and they drop this on us. I'll be taking donations, now! Large bills please, no loose change! *pulls out jar*

LOL, seriously though, this alternate JD obviously takes the Snow/Wyvern/banish zone plays to a whole new level. The fact the first effect is quick means you can use it just to deprive the opponent of a setup or toolbox play; that's potentially invaluable; add in the fact you can recycle and reuse your JDs means there's second chances if the OTKs fail: you can just banish, add back, mill, banish, then add back again. It also doesn't give a once per card clause, meaning multiple Punishment Dragon can activate in the same turn(s). The mill effect being dependent on a LS monster is fair. The potential for some rank 8 plays went up, also. I loved summoning Felgrand so he can participate in a JD blitz after the nuke, and then be in position to negate something if the OTK doesn't go through (though it usually did). With more level 8s, Trade-In might be a good supplemental draw engine, and it unclogs your hands.

As for Jain, she's one of my favorites, so if I was going to get a retrain of an existing Lightsworn it would probably have been her. I don't know if I like where this twilight/dark version is going. How is the lore going to explain that? (edit: I looked into it, and apparently this card falls under the Dark Counterpart series, as does Punishment Dragon, so it's not an archetype, if we judge it that way).

The only solace I take in it, is that it's another indicator that Jain is based on Joan of Arc, as I made the argument for in the past. In some anime/manga she's corrupted and falls to darkness (and is either lost or redeemed again), and this is probably where Konami got the idea for this (edit: Dark Counterpart series), if I had to guess. I just hope this doesn't cause a divide in the archetype where now Konami will reconsider how to support the archetype.

Charge, Recharge, Lumina, can't be used with this card, or cards like it, because it's not a Lightsworn, so Konami really needs to consider where they're going with this. If PD and Jain aren't just to expand the Dark Counterparts library, they would probably need to provide spells and traps that (hopefully) work with both types (lights and darks), to maintain the integrity of the current archetype, but expand to add more options.

EDIT: Oh, and Jain's effect is pretty good. Reverse Honest effect? Yes please.

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Old 02-17-2017, 04:50 PM   #661
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Tell me how a Twilightsworn monster is not a Lightsworn monster.
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:11 PM   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy of Light View Post
With more level 8s, Trade-In might be a good supplemental draw engine, and it unclogs your hands.
im more exicted by using allure as a draw engine when more twlight monsters get revealed (im assuming Cotd 25-27 will be twilightsworns aswell)
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:26 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by goupnorag01 View Post
Tell me how a Twilightsworn monster is not a Lightsworn monster.
Because twilightsworn and lightsworn are not the same word.

Although, the case was made for Michael that arch-lightsworn counts as "lightsworn", it seems to have been made on the basis that the dash separates arch from lightsworn, so it counts. Twilightsworn is not separated by any sort of space or punctuation and so is a different word entirely, so Konami tcg will need to fix this. Likely though, they will drop the twilight and give all dark lightsworn of this type a different title, but keep the word Lightsworn in there for archetype mechanic purposes (like how Raiden is "hand of the lightsworn" which is a break from the standard format of "Lightsworn Warrior, Lightsworn Summoner, etc). Or, they could put in the dash like Michael has. Even though twilightsworn is a clever play on word combinations which fit, the fact it currently is a combination of a word is a grey area, when "lightsworn" costs/effects require that specific word. This has happened in this game before, but because Lightsworn is one of the most popular archetypes of all time, I'm sure they'll address it properly.

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im more exicted by using allure as a draw engine when more twlight monsters get revealed (im assuming Cotd 25-27 will be twilightsworns aswell)
I actually thought about that too, after I commented. The fact they're dark adds another facet to opening plays and setup.

Last edited by Legacy of Light : 02-17-2017 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:24 PM   #664
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Well at the very least looks like i should pick up a lightsworn deck core sooner rather than later (even though my original intention was to build a chaos dragon hybrid that can use JD here and there).
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:43 PM   #665
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im liking the new dark lightsworns , specially with snow being able to make them easier to use.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:50 PM   #666
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Originally Posted by deltazero114 View Post
Well at the very least looks like i should pick up a lightsworn deck core sooner rather than later (even though my original intention was to build a chaos dragon hybrid that can use JD here and there).
Hype being what it is, and the market inflating in response to hype, you may want to collect it sooner, at least before these cards are pre-orders, since secondary markets often base their prices on the online medium. If you're building the budget version, though, you'll be fine because of the structure deck commons. The cards most likely to spike are the usual suspects: Charge, Recharge, and anything that is generally ultimate/secret. The market has understood that their money isn't in the lightsworn monsters, but the draw engine, so consider that when making your purchases.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:14 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by Legacy of Light View Post
Because twilightsworn and lightsworn are not the same word.

Although, the case was made for Michael that arch-lightsworn counts as "lightsworn", it seems to have been made on the basis that the dash separates arch from lightsworn, so it counts. Twilightsworn is not separated by any sort of space or punctuation and so is a different word entirely, so Konami tcg will need to fix this. Likely though, they will drop the twilight and give all dark lightsworn of this type a different title, but keep the word Lightsworn in there for archetype mechanic purposes (like how Raiden is "hand of the lightsworn" which is a break from the standard format of "Lightsworn Warrior, Lightsworn Summoner, etc). Or, they could put in the dash like Michael has. Even though twilightsworn is a clever play on word combinations which fit, the fact it currently is a combination of a word is a grey area, when "lightsworn" costs/effects require that specific word. This has happened in this game before, but because Lightsworn is one of the most popular archetypes of all time, I'm sure they'll address it properly.
LMAO what the heck.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsworn
"Lightsworn", known as "Lightlord" (ライトロード
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Jain,_T...tsworn_General

Card name is トワイライトロード・ジェネラル ジェイン

The underlined part there is the archetype name, "Lightlord" or "Lightsworn" in English.

Punctuation doesn't even enter into it. I can name a gazillion situations where archetypes have been expanded with new monsters that have new names but are still part of the archetype. Are you going to tell me that Evigishki (イビリチュア)monsters aren't supported as Gishki (リチュア) cards? Or XX-Sabers aren't X-Sabers? Steelswarm and Evilswarm are both supported by cards that support "lswarm" cards. We've got "tellarknight" cards that work with "Satellarknight" monsters, "Stellarknight" monsters, a "Darktellarknight" monster, and a "Tellarknight" monster.

The addition of "Twi" to "Lightsworn" does not make it unsupported. Every single card that states "Lightsworn" will work for "Twilightsworn" monsters. I went overboard with the examples but the fact is that we have so much precedent for this, they're known as "sub-archetypes". Unless you want to tell me that Gishki Vision (which searches "Gishki" Ritual Monsters") should only be able to search out Zielgigas and Psychelone (since they're "Gishki" not "Evigishki") and not the 5 other Evigishki monsters.

Ultimately what matters is the original Japanese name of the card. As long as the text for the archetype is there, in one piece, then support cards will work with it.

"Twilightsworn" is a sub-archetype of Lightsworn and I think they have promise. Looking forward to more of them and the return of Twilight decks, especially with the Link format.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:33 PM   #668
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Twilightsworns are Lightworns, same with Spiritual Beasts are also Ritual Beasts

D/D/D monsters are also D/D monsters
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:50 PM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy of Light View Post
Hype being what it is, and the market inflating in response to hype, you may want to collect it sooner, at least before these cards are pre-orders, since secondary markets often base their prices on the online medium. If you're building the budget version, though, you'll be fine because of the structure deck commons. The cards most likely to spike are the usual suspects: Charge, Recharge, and anything that is generally ultimate/secret. The market has understood that their money isn't in the lightsworn monsters, but the draw engine, so consider that when making your purchases.
Due to ygo being a casual hobby, i tend to go low rarity for most cards, and with the Realm of Light SD being released long ago, even the draw cards shouldn't be that hard to get (really it's just Solar Recharge for me, Charge of the Light Brigade i got a while back from chaos dragons SD; i have some raidens/luminas/lylas/jains/ehrens from various sources, even have a playset of snow already in anticiaption of building this. The main things i think i'll need are felis, wulf, maybe garoth, and JD along with aforementioned Solar Recharge)
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:07 PM   #670
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Twilightsworn...how funny because last year, I went out of my way to write for fun a counterpart Lightsworn called Darksworn. I'll post it on the CaC section once I have my lights back but basically I always pictured Lightsworn not to take the dark path as much say Doom-demons being the perfect represetation of Darksworn. I kid you not; I have a Darksworn monster called Alyl, Darksworn Revenant. Guess how I named that card!
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:14 PM   #671
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wow Twilightsworn not being Lightsworn is equivalent to Inverz not being Verz or in your case in the TCG Evilswarm isnt a lswarm


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Old 02-17-2017, 10:42 PM   #672
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I went overboard with the examples but
No, the examples were fine, it was the discourse that was a bit much. You were overzealous, and given what I said, that's understandable; you attempted to measure out what was measured and inform what you felt was ignorance. I misspoke, and I acknowledge that, as I am aware of all the things you are saying about the other archetypes, but had forgotten about them entirely as they never interested me or I never saw much of them. Thank you for refreshing my memory that this has happened before, and I take no offense in you doing so, as this is good news for everyone.

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Due to ygo being a casual hobby, i tend to go low rarity for most cards, and with the Realm of Light SD being released long ago, even the draw cards shouldn't be that hard to get (really it's just Solar Recharge for me, Charge of the Light Brigade i got a while back from chaos dragons SD; i have some raidens/luminas/lylas/jains/ehrens from various sources, even have a playset of snow already in anticiaption of building this. The main things i think i'll need are felis, wulf, maybe garoth, and JD along with aforementioned Solar Recharge)
This is just a hobby for me too at this point, but I had opted to max out my deck. I had gotten into the game shortly after Lightsworn debuted, actually, and they were my first deck, and I liked them so much I felt I had to eventually max it out, which I did. It would have been too expensive for me to max out all in one go, though, as it wasn't long before they made their splash and the values shot up. I was new to the game though, so didn't know much about values and the market for this game; if I had, I probably would have tried to collect the cards sooner to avoid paying through the nose for some of them later.

Players are fortunate to be in a time now where the archetype has been reprinted and is affordable; it wasn't always that way. If I have to compliment Konami, it's that they've made real, ongoing attempts to make this game accessible to everyone over the years.

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Twilightsworn...how funny because last year, I went out of my way to write for fun a counterpart Lightsworn called Darksworn. I'll post it on the CaC section once I have my lights back but basically I always pictured Lightsworn not to take the dark path as much say Doom-demons being the perfect represetation of Darksworn. I kid you not; I have a Darksworn monster called Alyl, Darksworn Revenant. Guess how I named that card!
Neat! I've seen such things on deviantART and other websites many years ago, where people edit and alter the cards to look like dark versions of themselves, so this idea about them being corrupted has been around a long time.

The question is why Konami is doing this now, and whether this is a natural progression of the lore they had always intended, or if they are improvising based solely on the card game itself, and the marketability of Lightsworn. Yeah, it could be a bit of both, but given Konami's decisions with this archetype in years past, one does wonder if this is desperation or not.

Personally, I'd prefer for these to be fallen versions from a different timeline/reality where events played out differently and were drastic enough to inflict these changes. Based just on the artwork thus far, they don't seem 'evil', which is why I never used that word in describing them. Using Jain as an example, she looks like she's had to step up to lead in a dark time, and the whole "twilight" is really not a reflection on their spiritual allignment, but on the horrid world they may be living in that it has hardened their hearts (in contrast to the Lightsworn who answer people's prayers regardless). Kinda like how the Justice League have the opposing Justice Lords. They're basically still good, but are more heavy-handed with law enforcement, because in their timeline, things are different and it's changed their outlook on compassion and justice.

The idea of Light Jain meeting Dark Jain and having to fight or resolve their dual-existence would make for good art on a support card.

Last edited by Legacy of Light : 02-17-2017 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:25 PM   #673
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Chaos Light sworn is making a comeback?
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Old 02-18-2017, 12:02 AM   #674
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Chaos Light sworn is making a comeback?
Depends. If they continue to release cards like this steadily enough, probably they will make a comeback. If they only make enough of them that you still need to rely on the tech cards like before, than maybe not. Ideally, this would be sustainable over a period of time, like twilight was, but the incentive has to be there, so we'll see.

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Old 02-18-2017, 12:17 AM   #675
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I'm stoked, I just hope that these 2 arent the only ones in the set.
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