Magic the Gathering Misconceptions

Rai Kerensky · 11-03-2009, 05:32 PM

I have been hitting my head for a minute now.

Quote:

Summoning Sickness - This slows down games and can prevent "underdog victories." Though this does add more thought to the game, it doesn't allow people to come back from the game easily when backed in.

Mana Costs - You can't play much on the first turn causing games to be even slower. This does stop some cards from being broken by placing a cost to play them, but combined with Summoning Sickness, it forces games to move at a sluggish pace.

Those are my two biggest concerns outside of rotating formats.
And card pool doesn't matter when you can't play many of them based on time and not playability.

Any more stories, comments, grievances, or anything that misrepresents how this game works?

pat460 · 11-03-2009, 07:28 PM

I don't understand. Are you saying the things in the quote?

Rai Kerensky · 11-03-2009, 07:29 PM

Someone else posted that. I kept hitting my head on a desk.

pat460 · 11-03-2009, 07:45 PM

Agreed. The no mana cost thing Ive actually played with before and enjoyed(In type 4, but still kinda the same), but I could never see that as a competative format. The rest is just /facepalm

enjoyonionrings · 11-03-2009, 08:00 PM

The person you quoted certainly has zero clue about game design and what keeps something from being 'broken'.

And they've never played booster draft or sealed, apparently.

Kelton · 11-03-2009, 08:04 PM

One thing I always heard was how difficult the rules were to learn....kept me away from the game for awhile...learned the rules in like 10 mins lol.

Mr Flibbles · 11-03-2009, 08:11 PM

Ah, so you were watching that thread too Raijin. I guess the idea that the rules are simple to learn is the myth I've dealt with most, since I remember what a hard time I had learning this game. After learning them to the point I could play the game without asking a mechanics question before making a play, I've found that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

@Onion: To be fair, this was over in the YGO forums, and YGO's sealed play is not very good most of the time.

enjoyonionrings · 11-03-2009, 08:31 PM

Where's this said thread? Link please :]

ShadowZ · 11-04-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Flibbles

@Onion: To be fair, this was over in the YGO forums, and YGO's sealed play is not very good most of the time.

I was just thinking that this sounded like a Yugioh player XD

Dunjohn · 11-04-2009, 04:16 PM

Players of one game are always going to have misconceptions about other games. Magic players always thought that Pokemon was too random due to the coin-flipping, but anyone who's actually played Pokemon knows that coin-flip cards are rarely used in serious games, just like in Magic. I don't play Yu-Gi-Oh! and I do try never to pass judgment on it, but I probably misconcieve swathes of it. I hear that it's dominated by cookie-cutter decks, for example. It probably is, but not to the extent that I hear it is.

The local Magic community lost its traditional home in recent months, and we've had to move in to the local model shop. The wargamers do like to ridicule the randomness of Magic decks and draws, while conveniently forgetting the massive number of dice they need to bring with them everywhere.

Toshiro Umezete · 11-04-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunjohn

Players of one game are always going to have misconceptions about other games. Magic players always thought that Pokemon was too random due to the coin-flipping, but anyone who's actually played Pokemon knows that coin-flip cards are rarely used in serious games, just like in Magic. I don't play Yu-Gi-Oh! and I do try never to pass judgment on it, but I probably misconcieve swathes of it. I hear that it's dominated by cookie-cutter decks, for example. It probably is, but not to the extent that I hear it is.

The local Magic community lost its traditional home in recent months, and we've had to move in to the local model shop. The wargamers do like to ridicule the randomness of Magic decks and draws, while conveniently forgetting the massive number of dice they need to bring with them everywhere.

Actually i quit yugioh and started magic because of the sheer amount of cookie cutter decks in the format.

pat460 · 11-04-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunjohn

Players of one game are always going to have misconceptions about other games. Magic players always thought that Pokemon was too random due to the coin-flipping, but anyone who's actually played Pokemon knows that coin-flip cards are rarely used in serious games, just like in Magic. I don't play Yu-Gi-Oh! and I do try never to pass judgment on it, but I probably misconcieve swathes of it. I hear that it's dominated by cookie-cutter decks, for example. It probably is, but not to the extent that I hear it is.

The local Magic community lost its traditional home in recent months, and we've had to move in to the local model shop. The wargamers do like to ridicule the randomness of Magic decks and draws, while conveniently forgetting the massive number of dice they need to bring with them everywhere.

.....machamp? gengar?

Kinshin · 11-04-2009, 05:13 PM

Well, I had those misconceptions about magic at first but then i realized Summoning Sickness passes without me noticing it and that there are cards that only cost 1 mana enabling first turn rushes.

But also Yu-Gi-Oh hasn't had a cookie-cutter format since Chaos (Every deck was the same because they were pure staples and nothing else but Synergy)

Pokemon i played before Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic and i have to say it was really fun but i never played competitively before so can't make any judgments here.

OH and just asking but what is the best Intro Pack to buy? (I am just getting back into magic for the 4th time (Dominaria, Mirrodin, Asian people, Now)
I already bought the M10 green and the ZEN green but would booster packs be the better choice?

enjoyonionrings · 11-04-2009, 08:32 PM

Don't buy intro packs if your goal is to become competitive. The blue Intro Pack from Zendikar is probably the best, since it has Sphinx of Jwar Isle (which is really good).

Kinshin · 11-04-2009, 09:13 PM

I just got lucky with Intro Packs recently (Baneslayer and a Verdant Catacombs)

**Mage Master** · 11-04-2009, 09:18 PM

Can we try to keep the discussion on-topic guys? I was tempted to lock this in the first place and you're all not helping things.

Kinshin · 11-04-2009, 09:21 PM

Sorry bout that i just had to ask and i figured doing it all in one post would be less troublesome.

Mr Flibbles · 11-05-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunjohn

Players of one game are always going to have misconceptions about other games. Magic players always thought that Pokemon was too random due to the coin-flipping, but anyone who's actually played Pokemon knows that coin-flip cards are rarely used in serious games, just like in Magic. I don't play Yu-Gi-Oh! and I do try never to pass judgment on it, but I probably misconcieve swathes of it. I hear that it's dominated by cookie-cutter decks, for example. It probably is, but not to the extent that I hear it is.

The local Magic community lost its traditional home in recent months, and we've had to move in to the local model shop. The wargamers do like to ridicule the randomness of Magic decks and draws, while conveniently forgetting the massive number of dice they need to bring with them everywhere.

This is one of the smartest things I have read in a while, and it is very true. I'll admit to passing judgment on games I don't actively play from time to time, and you are right, it is not something people should do. I played Yu-Gi-Oh for many years before picking up Magic, initially refusing to get in due to its expense. Then I discovered that chase rares in Magic were actually *gasp* affordable! I have not regretted my decision to play since.

-To clear up a couple YGO rumors, for the sake of information, Tele-DAD (a ridiculously powerful and nigh unbeatable deck in its time) was Chaos 2.0 for a format (which I didn't play), and while cookie-cutters see quite a bit of play even today, smart players can beat them with alternate strategies. There are at least three top decks in the spotlight now as well, which I see as an improvement.

Kinshin · 11-05-2009, 06:35 PM

Well it isn't cookie-cutters anymore it's actually pure netdecking now. Cookie-Cutter is when you build a deck that no matter what you do if you want to include staples you might as well build what everyone else built. But the card pool is now large enough to accomodate more decks to be netdecked. It's the same problem but the CC format was the staple format. Tele-DAD format was when Netdecking took a new high.

I really miss seeing CCC Cookie-Cutter Chaos a few years ago. it could also be called Carbon Copy Chaos. But meh Magic i don't think has ever had a time where Cookie-Cutter existed but it does have a little netdecking.

Honestly magic is one of the most well done games i've seen. Yu-Gi-Oh is behind it and Pokemon behind that IMO. But once again i still have misconceptions about Pokemon TCG because i haven't played it.

LegacyDan · 11-05-2009, 08:37 PM

Having played Magic, YuGiOh, Pokemon, and Vs. System (lolz) competitively, I have heard plenty of misconceptions, but honestly moat people saying those things haven't played the game they are talking about. Example: YuGiOh is dominated by kids. In the beginning, yes it was, but nowadays it seems like the people playing it are college age and above.

Kinshin · 11-05-2009, 08:51 PM

Actually in the beginning the only one not dominated by kids was Magic. Yu-Gi-Oh very quickly became competitive and Pokemon not so quickly but fast enough. Magic it seems has always been a competitive game. Just like WOW TCG.

Another big conception about Magic is that only nerds play it but thats true for all card games.

pat460 · 11-05-2009, 09:02 PM

The wwhole nerds thing is prety much true. If you don't accept that your a nerd, then you have intrapersonal conflict issues lol. Beeing a nerd isn't a bad thing.

Kinshin · 11-05-2009, 09:10 PM

Well it's not really a nerd thing because some people play it just as a hobby and nothing more. But then again it is a Nerd's World because computers used to be nerd exclusive and now look at it all.

I'm not a nerd but a geek (5 times better BTW lol) and i play Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon (not card game).

glassbutterfly · 11-11-2009, 03:17 PM

First is land = mana stuff. I don't remember ever having trouble learning the difference between the 2, but I have a friend who is barely starting magic and he confuses the two as one. Another thing is thinking mana abilities are abilities that require mana. I keep having to explain how they're abilities that produce mana. Last thing is how complicated this game is, at least some of my friends think so. It's pretty clear cut. Magic is actually a well structured card game to the point that a person can learn it pretty easily within a couple of games. The reminder texts help out a lot as well.

EternalPhoenix13 · 11-11-2009, 10:30 PM

Yu-gi-oh lacks good game design, which is one of the things that eventually made it less appealing. Magic also really caters to casual players (various casual formats, EDH, Planechase, Emporer, Star, chaos etc).

I mean we never actually know what goes into making a yu-gi-oh set, but Magic actually has articles written about why Magic is great in design. I mean all of the different formats, its hard to see how someone could not like the game.