super saiyan mystic gohan?

[danielmegabyte_69]

I was watching dbgt the other day, during the super 17 saga, gohan goes super saiyan when fighting super 17, but how is this possible i thought old kai used his powers on gohan and made him mystic gohan in the late buu saga of dbz he could not go super saiyan anymore but was as powerful as a super saiyan 3. so i think this is a major stuff up in the series. has anyone else noticed this or has it just been over looked for so long

[Tyro_Kith]

Everyone has noticed it. GT doesn't stick to even the anime's canon, thus why everything is screwed up.

[new_york]

thats something that toei screwed up just ignore it ..think about it like this he didnt want to go mystic beacouse he thought that mystic wont help

[Animewars2002]

I like to assume that because it was magic, gohan simply lost the ability when he was revived. Though this is gt were talking about. Why did goku do the following.


1) Why go cruising around the galaxy with your grand daughter and gimped trunks. I would have taken gohan, piccilo, vegeta............

[punwisp]

Mystic gohan was stronger then ssj3, stronger then both goku and Gotenks.

Also remember Gohan only fights when he has to, he doesnt train... GT is 10 years after the tournie in end of DBZ, possibly 5-10 years passed after buu saga.

People always get weaker when they dont fight or train

[FutureTrunksSSJ1]

Originally Posted by new_york

thats something that toei screwed up just ignore it ..think about it like this he didnt want to go mystic beacouse he thought that mystic wont help

There was nothing about it that was screwed up. It's been assumed by many that the MSSJ form has a time limit. That was just the GT series Gohan that was in SSJ form.

[MooooooCow]

That's only assumed by people who want to try to say GT isn't total garbage.

The chou powerup was never stated to have a time limit. It was a release of potential. Something that's been happening in the series since the early volumes. No one else ever lost the power over time.

[FutureTrunksSSJ1]

Originally Posted by MooooooCow

That's only assumed by people who want to try to say GT isn't total garbage.

The chou powerup was never stated to have a time limit. It was a release of potential. Something that's been happening in the series since the early volumes. No one else ever lost the power over time.

If you pay attention to what happens in Gt, you'd actually realize how good it is. Most of the battles are better than the ones in DBZ.

[MooooooCow]

That's your opinion of course, but I certainly don't agree with it.

Every one fires chi blasts at each other for 4 episodes to no effect. Goku is beaten up, every one gives him their energy, he goes SSJ4 again.

Throw in a side of fusion and a dash of dragonfist, and repeat.

[AirUpThere]

Gohan not going mystic was just a mistake, like how he or Gotenks didn't help fight Kid Buu at the end.

[apocalypse1280]

There was 17 years between Buu(when Gohan became "Mystic") and GT. Does anyone really think he'd be so powerful? I mean seriously. After 7 years between Cell and Buu Gohan became a weakling. Imagine 17 years. And Gohan did absolutely no training or fighting in those 17 years. He needed to access SSJ again. Why do people just say "GT sucks" like sheep instead of using their brains and thinking about it? Not only that but Gohan goes SSJ2 against Super 17.

[Toji]

As far as im aware Gohan only goes mystic when he powers to SSJ2? Plus with GT not being created by Toriyama it doesn't follow ****. Toei seriously screwed up!

[MooooooCow]

Originally Posted by apocalypse1280

There was 17 years between Buu(when Gohan became "Mystic") and GT. Does anyone really think he'd be so powerful? I mean seriously. After 7 years between Cell and Buu Gohan became a weakling. Imagine 17 years. And Gohan did absolutely no training or fighting in those 17 years. He needed to access SSJ again. Why do people just say "GT sucks" like sheep instead of using their brains and thinking about it? Not only that but Gohan goes SSJ2 against Super 17.

Even if he got weaker, his SSJ form was still replaced with another way to access his potential power. If anything he should be exactly the same as when he fought buu. It would still make him weak in GT but it wouldn't be a plothole.

No one says GT sucks because its the trendy thing to do. It sucks because it's a plothole ridden mess that shats upon the series its based on.

[FutureTrunksSSJ1]

Originally Posted by Toji

As far as im aware Gohan only goes mystic when he powers to SSJ2? Plus with GT not being created by Toriyama it doesn't follow ****. Toei seriously screwed up!

Everyone thinks that just because GT wasnt created by Toriyama that it sucks. It's really good. The battles are intense. Re-watch GT and actually pay attention to whats going on.

[Toji]

I've seen the whole of GT about 4-5 times. It makes NO sense at all. i could rant on for hours but this thread isnt about that!

just to point out one thing that made it EPICALLY bad. Super Saiya-Jin 4. It didn't even follow suit >.< Why red fur? SSJ's have gold hair not there original colour.

It's that bad Toriyama is even contradicting it with DBO!

[apocalypse1280]

Originally Posted by MooooooCow

Even if he got weaker, his SSJ form was still replaced with another way to access his potential power.

See the problem here is that Gohan's ultimate form isn't a power up. So if he becomes a weakling after 17 years of doing nothing but reading books, how does he become strong enough to fight along side Goku and Vegeta who are much stronger? Or against the villains who are stronger? By accessing his SSJ form. No plothole.

Originally Posted by MooooooCow

No one says GT sucks because its the trendy thing to do. It sucks because it's a plothole ridden mess that shats upon the series its based on.

Yes they do. You're doing it yourself. You say it's "plothole ridden", give me some examples and I'll shoot them down. If you watched the entire series in Japanese, which I'm sure none of you had, then you'd get it.

Originally Posted by Toji

I've seen the whole of GT about 4-5 times. It makes NO sense at all. i could rant on for hours but this thread isnt about that!

One of three things:
1. You didn't watch it in Japanese.
2. You're lying.
3. You're just plain dumb.

Watch the entire series in Japanese, then come talk to me.

Originally Posted by Toji

just to point out one thing that made it EPICALLY bad. Super Saiya-Jin 4. It didn't even follow suit >.< Why red fur? SSJ's have gold hair not there original colour.

So you have no idea that Akira Toriyama drew that design I'm assuming? Either way, who cares about all the blonde locks flowing around. What's wrong with a change? SSJ4 is the best looking SSJ form anyway.

Originally Posted by Toji

It's that bad Toriyama is even contradicting it with DBO!

Now this pisses me off. I hate when people say this. Toriyama didn't write GT and he didn't write DBO. So how is he contradicting anything? Toriyama praised GT for how good it was and recommended it. He had as much involvement in GT as he had in DBO. Backgrounds, character designs, and a little input. That's it. You know Toriyama owns DBGT, right?

[FutureTrunksSSJ1]

Even the english version is good. It's amazing that Dragon Ball-Dragon Ball GT comes to a full circle. It all starts with Goku as a Kid and it basically ends with Goku as a kid.

[tienshinhan08]

Even if Gohan got weaker over those 17 years, he still shouldn't need to use SSJ to power up. He has had his potential unlocked, so that he can access his full power without becoming a Super Saiyan, thus saving him the drain on his energy that it takes to maintain the Super Saiyan form.

[MooooooCow]

See the problem here is that Gohan's ultimate form isn't a power up. So if he becomes a weakling after 17 years of doing nothing but reading books, how does he become strong enough to fight along side Goku and Vegeta who are much stronger? Or against the villains who are stronger? By accessing his SSJ form. No plothole.

His SSJ form(that he can't access anymore) would be weaker than his ultimate form. He shouldn't be strong enough to fight with goku and vegeta, SSJ or mystic. The point is that he can't go SSJ anymore and in GT he does. This creates a plothole.

Yes they do. You're doing it yourself. You say it's "plothole ridden", give me some examples and I'll shoot them down. If you watched the entire series in Japanese, which I'm sure none of you had, then you'd get it.

The first time I watched dragonball GT dragonball didn't exist in english beyond captain ginyu.

I made a list of the major ones earlier. The biggest however is that pilaf shouldn't be alive at all. No evil person on earth survived the buu saga.

[apocalypse1280]

Originally Posted by tienshinhan08

Even if Gohan got weaker over those 17 years, he still shouldn't need to use SSJ to power up. He has had his potential unlocked, so that he can access his full power without becoming a Super Saiyan, thus saving him the drain on his energy that it takes to maintain the Super Saiyan form.

Originally Posted by MooooooCow

His SSJ form(that he can't access anymore) would be weaker than his ultimate form. He shouldn't be strong enough to fight with goku and vegeta, SSJ or mystic. The point is that he can't go SSJ anymore and in GT he does. This creates a plothole.

Why is it so hard to understand. Gohan became weak after 17 years. His unlocked potential means **** if he does nothing with it. He doesn't stay that strong forever. He becomes weak. It was never stated that he couldn't go SSJ ever again. He simply goes SSJ while being in his ultimate form because he's so weak. It's really not hard to understand. No plothole.

Originally Posted by MooooooCow

I made a list of the major ones earlier. The biggest however is that pilaf shouldn't be alive at all. No evil person on earth survived the buu saga.

Dende said "bring everyone on Earth back to life since the wizard Babidi showed up, except for the most evil ones". Pilaf is not one of the most evil bad guys. He's never even killed anyone. No plothole.

I'd like to see this list so I can bury it.

[tienshinhan08]

It is a plothole because him going super saiyan would be a waste of his power. He can just power up to reach maximum power, it has nothing to do with how strong he actually is.

It is never stated that he cannot go SSJ again, but why would he? On the one hand, you can power up to your maximum without being in a form that slowly drains your power, or you could power up to your max while being in your natural state and not losing any power to maintaining a transformation.

[MooooooCow]

Why is it so hard to understand. Gohan became weak after 17 years. His unlocked potential means **** if he does nothing with it. He doesn't stay that strong forever. He becomes weak. It was never stated that he couldn't go SSJ ever again. He simply goes SSJ while being in his ultimate form because he's so weak. It's really not hard to understand. No plothole.

Actually it is stated that his ultimate form replaces SSJ. I'm not posting the quote again today. I don't care how weak he gets, how strong he gets, or if he stands on his head on the moon. He still cannot go SSJ and its still a plot hole.

Dende said "bring everyone on Earth back to life since the wizard Babidi showed up, except for the most evil ones". Pilaf is not one of the most evil bad guys. He's never even killed anyone. No plothole.

He tries to take over the world, then tries to kill goku, then helps piccolo try to take over the world. Maybe that isn't evil in your book, but I think you're just trying to grasp at there not being plot holes in GT.

How about people that are dead not being able to have their souls destroyed?

Or the denizens of hell not having halo's (toei can't even stay consistant with its own filler)

[Toji]

Originally Posted by Apocolypse1280

One of three things:
1. You didn't watch it in Japanese.
2. You're lying.
3. You're just plain dumb.

Watch the entire series in Japanese, then come talk to me.

1 - I DON'T watch dubs.
2 - Who the **** are you to say im lying? i have all eps of DB/Z/GT on my hard drive ALL SUBBED.
3 - You're the ******* here mate.

Originally Posted by Apocolypse1280

So you have no idea that Akira Toriyama drew that design I'm assuming? Either way, who cares about all the blonde locks flowing around. What's wrong with a change? SSJ4 is the best looking SSJ form anyway.

TORIYAMA DID NO ART FOR GT AT ALL. The Ssj4 Design was based up or Toriyama's ORIGINAL design for Ssj3 with the short shoulder length-ish hair and tail and a thicker outline around the eye! Toei just killed the image! It IS NOT the best looking Ssj level it looks like some wiped their arse on paper and said "Here, this is Ssj 4 Goku. Give me a few more hours and ill knock you out a Vegeta Ssj4." If you want proof...here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...7016/quote.jpg

Originally Posted by Akira Toriyama

In particular, the animator Nakatsuru-kun is so skilled, and has such understanding of the peculiarities of my drawings, that there have been times that even I have been like, "Did I draw this character design, or did Nakatsuru-kun?," not being able to tell the difference. For example, "Super Saiya-Jin 4," which appears in GT, was Nakatsuru-kun's design. The image I drew above is the likeness I made after looking at it. Did I do a good job?

(loosely Translated)

Originally Posted by Apocolypse1280

Toriyama praised GT for how good it was.

Though he speaks positively about it, Toriyama considers GT as a side-story.

Originally Posted by Akira Toriyama

If you are able, along with me, to enjoy watching the original Dragon Ball's grand side-story Dragon Ball GT, you will be pleased.

Takao Koyama wrote the finalized scenario, but it was based on Akira Toriyama's original draft for a Z special. It's in the credits. And no, it's not the same as "original creator," which is referring to the manga.

Originally Posted by Apocolypse1280

Now this pisses me off. I hate when people say this. Toriyama didn't write GT and he didn't write DBO. So how is he contradicting anything? He had as much involvement in GT as he had in DBO. Backgrounds, character designs, and a little input. That's it. You know Toriyama owns DBGT, right?

He was a f***ing ART CONSULTANT nothing more! proof any one?

here...

Originally Posted by Shonen Jump on Toriyama In a Jump interview

Dragonball Z ended in 1996, and a new series called "Dragonball GT," started to air. Suprisingly, Toriyama had no part in the series, and was only an art consultant for some time. After he left, the character design quality significantly dropped and the ratings dropped also.

Toriyama has done the basic plot to DBO and YES it does contradict GT seeing as in DBO, GT NEVER HAPPENED.

And yes i know Toriyama owns GT (never said he didn't O_o) but he was asked by Toei to do another series. Toriyama DIDN'T want to do Dragonball any more he was tired of doing it, he'd been at it 12 years both manga and anime. ANYONE would be fed up of doing it by then! So he told toei to do it themselves and HE would be an art consultant and nothing more. He also only did that upto Goku and gang landing on M2!

So before you start getting all high and mighty and calling a fan of db/z/gt of 11 years dumb, TRY to know what you're talking about!

[FutureTrunksSSJ1]

Originally Posted by tienshinhan08

It is a plothole because him going super saiyan would be a waste of his power. He can just power up to reach maximum power, it has nothing to do with how strong he actually is.

It is never stated that he cannot go SSJ again, but why would he? On the one hand, you can power up to your maximum without being in a form that slowly drains your power, or you could power up to your max while being in your natural state and not losing any power to maintaining a transformation.

Its not a plothole. nothing and nobody ever said Gohan cant go to SSJ form. Fact is he went SSJ so that means he had to get weaker after Buu series. The entire gap between Z and GT Goku trained with Uub and got stronger. There was no reason to fight so Gohan worked on being a scholar and grew weaker as a fighter. His potential, as released by Kai, was less than in GT so he did have to transform. Its not that hard to figure out.

[tienshinhan08]

Again, you cannot use the plothole in question to prove it's not a plothole. Gohan has his potential released so that he can reach his full power without having to transform, weak or not. It's a plothole, deal with it. He even tries to go SSJ after the Old Kai's powerup, and cannot.