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Old 04-16-2017, 12:48 PM   #1
Nozark
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Default How inferior is Super Saiyan God now?

For this chart, we'll be going through the series to determine how much more powerful Goku has gotten since his first fight against Beerus. People like to argue 'The punches that nearly destroyed the Universe was a shared feat, blah-blah-blah,' So I've constructed this thread to demonstrate that Goku, has since, shown that he is more than capable of replicating the feat himself.

Goku SSJ God: 1 For convenience, we'll list him as a 1.

After Goku's fight with Beerus it is said that he absorbed the God power into his being. However, so much disagrees with this contention that we're going to disregard it completely.

Anyways, Goku approaches Vegeta, who has been training with Whis, and Goku states that Vegeta is probably somewhat stronger than he is. We can conclude that if Vegeta became a Saiyan God at that point of time than he would likely be stronger than Goku was during his battle against Beerus.

Fast-forward a little bit and we recognize that Goku and Vegeta trained with Whis and become more powerful as Super Saiyan Blue's.

Golden Freeza: 1.5
Goku SSJ Blue: 1.2
Vegeta SSJ Blue: 1.2

Afterwards, Goku fights against Copy-Vegeta, who also becomes a Super Saiyan Blue and Goku acknowledges that Vegeta has become even stronger than he was during his fight against Freeza.

But Goku still felt confident in defeating him.

Goku SSJ Blue: 1.50
Copy Vegeta (SSJ Blue): 1.35

Vegeta and Goku both enter the Rosat to train. However it is stated that their increases are rather minimal. Also, Goku seems to be the stronger of two at Champa's tournament; considering he was able to keep-pace with Hit.

Goku SSJ Blue: 1.65
Vegeta SSJ Blue: 1.50

During Goku's battle against Hit, he unveils that he is capable of using a Kaio Ken x10 attack; which multiplies his battle-power by as much as 10 times.

Goku SSJ Blue: 16.50 Kaio-Kenx10
Hit: 15 Full Power

A writer for Dragonball Super has stated that Black was the strongest opponent, besides Beerus and Champa, et cetera. This interview came after Champa's tournament, so we can determine that Black is even more powerful than Goku and Hit were.

Vegeta also enters the Rosat again and became much more powerful.

Vegeta SSJ Blue: 24 Post-Rosat
Black: 20
Goku SSJ Blue: 18
Zamasu: 15

Hit makes a return in the near future and begins to fight against Goku once more. It is stated that Hit is on a completely different-level from where he was during Champa's tournament. Goku stale-mated him so we can conclude that the two are equals.

We also know that Goku is still capable of performing a Kaio Kenx10 attack.

Goku SSJ Blue: 30
-Kaio-Kenx10: 300

Hit: 30

Goku increased his Super Saiyan God powers by hundreds of times, which strikes me as completely odd since it used to be some grandiose degree of power, but oh well.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:09 AM   #2
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How exactly does any of this mean anything? You're applying "stronger" to be a 20% increase when it could be basically anything; where are you getting Golden Freeza as 1.5 when he could easily be 1.05 to Goku/Vegeta's 1.02? Or, conversely, he could be a 5. Or a 50. Or a 1.005. We have literally no scaling here.

Literally the only valid number we have is the KKx10. Everything else is conjecture. You aren't 'demonstrating' anything. Until Goku actually shows himself capable of universe-shattering punches this is all groundless.
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:59 AM   #3
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How exactly does any of this mean anything? You're applying "stronger" to be a 20% increase when it could be basically anything; where are you getting Golden Freeza as 1.5 when he could easily be 1.05 to Goku/Vegeta's 1.02? Or, conversely, he could be a 5. Or a 50. Or a 1.005. We have literally no scaling here.

Literally the only valid number we have is the KKx10. Everything else is conjecture. You aren't 'demonstrating' anything. Until Goku actually shows himself capable of universe-shattering punches this is all groundless.
I was applying minimal increases to demonstrates that no matter how you work it, Goku has literally gotten, hundreds of times more powerful.

Furthermore, applying a meaningless increase, such as 0.05 would be completely inconsequential and not reflective of the differences in strength that are portrayed.

Goku had demonstrated that he is capable of Universe shattering attacks due to his feats as a Saiyan God. The only logical argument that was presented at the time that the feat occurred was that it was a shared feat, which is now irrelevant in the face of stronger evidence.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:47 PM   #4
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Really? Demonstrate then, please, what the "differences in strength" are that are portrayed between Golden Freeza era Goku and SSG Goku.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:57 PM   #5
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Really? Demonstrate then, please, what the "differences in strength" are that are portrayed between Golden Freeza era Goku and SSG Goku.
Please see the Manga and the Daizenshuu for said numbers.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:01 AM   #6
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So you don't actually have any sort of evidence that you're willing to put forward then? Interesting.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:54 AM   #7
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So you don't actually have any sort of evidence that you're willing to put forward then? Interesting.
The source material demonstrates how large gaps ought to be with official numbers conforming to such contentions. You on the other-hand, have absolutely no basis for your position besides willful ignorance.

I'll be willing to educate you further on any topic regarding Dragonball Z. Simply pick one.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:29 AM   #8
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Any one huh?

Please provide a single concrete example of a difference in strength portrayed between SSG Goku and Golden Freeza-era Goku. Should be well within your reach.

Because you see, "ought to be" is not and never will be acceptable within any real debate. When you are attempting to portray something as a fact you need to be prepared to support that fact.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:18 PM   #9
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Any one huh?

Please provide a single concrete example of a difference in strength portrayed between SSG Goku and Golden Freeza-era Goku. Should be well within your reach.

Because you see, "ought to be" is not and never will be acceptable within any real debate. When you are attempting to portray something as a fact you need to be prepared to support that fact.
The source material (& Daizenshuu) demonstrate how large gaps ought to be with official numbers conforming to such contentions

However, you have failed to demonstrate why these official numbers are unreliable.

My facts are supported. The burden of proof now shifts to you.

So please, do so.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:06 PM   #10
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Really? Please link me to the source where Golden Freeza era Goku being 20% more powerful than SSG Goku is officially stated. I would love to read that.
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:20 AM   #11
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Dude Zamasu isn't even stronger then ssj2 Goku.....he's not even a threat in the fights, only a nuisance at most. Also, Hit is a weird character, power wise he can't even power up, just reaches new levels depending on how strong the guy he is fighting. I still think Hit is an android of some sort...
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:12 PM   #12
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Really? Please link me to the source where Golden Freeza era Goku being 20% more powerful than SSG Goku is officially stated. I would love to read that.
Please demonstrate why the official sources are unreliable.

You can also continue to argue and continue to be willfully ignorant, but you are making a fool out of yourself.

a) The official sources show us how large gaps should be.
b) We apply those gaps to other fights where there are no official numbers.
c) We demonstrate, in a logical sense, that the difference in power between two fighters, at the very least, has to be so large.

Therefore, if the premises are true than the conclusion that follows is also true. This is a basic form of logic that you are seemingly incapable of comprehending. However, that doesn't disprove my logical rebuttals, whose foundations are grounded within the official sources.

Honestly man, just stop. Lmao
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Old 05-02-2017, 02:08 AM   #13
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And yet you can't actually provide these official sources anywhere? A link, an episode/issue number, anything. Interesting, that.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:46 AM   #14
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And yet you can't actually provide these official sources anywhere? A link, an episode/issue number, anything. Interesting, that.
The basis for my gaps are supported by the official Japanese Manga. What propositions have you put forward to demonstrate that they are unreliable?
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:38 AM   #15
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I use only the DBS manga, because even though it sucks, it sucks less than the anime and has an inch of notion of what consistency means...

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Old 05-19-2017, 05:39 AM   #16
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So if you want to have a manga discussion, then I can give you!

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Old 05-23-2017, 01:43 PM   #17
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No, no, no. Kestral got absolutely destroyed in this little debate.

Any other challengers? Step forward.
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Old 05-23-2017, 07:46 PM   #18
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By using common sense, Frieza is not stronger then Goku and Vegeta as Goku stating that Golden Frieza would be the perfect sparring partner, he's durable and his power is up there. Look at the newly returned to power Gohan, he's able to keep up with current ssb Goku a bit, I stated Frieza at that time would probably be a little stronger then full power mystic Gohan which it's looking to be the case here. Black is weird, you can honestly consider Black a fusion himself since he poses God and Saiyan in one when Zamasu wished himself into Gokus body, Hit on the other hand poses Android traits, I don't see how he was able to take blows from Kaioken Goku like that and still be functional..
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