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Old 11-19-2016, 08:14 PM   #1
lightningblade
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Default Deck and Player Banning

Not sure if in right section, but does pertain to the TCG.

The store I play at regularly has a small crowd of about 8 people. Mixed age group, and the store is not sanctioned by POP presently. I am in the process of trying to take and pass the TO certification since the owner himself does not get intend to get involved in any aspect of the events.

For about 5 tournaments straight, I have gone undefeated with a deck that was tailored to my preferences. I have heard some rumors that the owner wants to ban my entire deck or bar me personally from playing in further events because some of the younger players have, for a lack of better terminology, gotten very salty lately. Sanctioned or not, can a store owner just ban a deck or player just because (when said person knows nothing about the game anyways)? Events have been held under Unlimited format in case anyone was possibly wondering about set legality. The owner has not done the same with Yugioh events which have had a regular winner.
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Old 11-20-2016, 09:14 AM   #2
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Just post the address so people can boycott this store.

If the store was sanctionned, you could report this behavior to TPCi, though.

If it's unlimited and the players + the store owner are dumb enough to ban ONE deck, just change it. There are plenty of ways to achieve First Turn Kill / First Turn Lock in Unlimited anyway.

Perhaps that'll incite them to at least make a decent banlist / stop being scrubs when playing tournaments.
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Old 11-20-2016, 04:21 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mantidactyle View Post
Just post the address so people can boycott this store.

If the store was sanctionned, you could report this behavior to TPCi, though.

If it's unlimited and the players + the store owner are dumb enough to ban ONE deck, just change it. There are plenty of ways to achieve First Turn Kill / First Turn Lock in Unlimited anyway.

Perhaps that'll incite them to at least make a decent banlist / stop being scrubs when playing tournaments.
I'm going to wait and see what happens in the coming weeks if it was just rumor or not. The store is not sanctioned as of yet, and I will not assist in helping to do so if such a stunt is pulled by the owner. TPCi would be notified if that was pulled after sanctioning. If banned, I will assist events at another store not too far from me. A lot of my friends, who have been regulars at the store since the early days of Pokemon, are going to cease doing business with the store if said ban happens.

Another problem that I personally see in it is that I am the head judge/organizer of the events. Technically, wouldn't I have the final say on any ban lists? I hold events under Unlimited if not Expanded for the most part because I have a lot of older cards that wouldn't otherwise be legal in Standard. Some of the younger players want Standard only, which will neuter my deck.

I do agree though that using a more derpy deck should teach the younger players to stop being scrubs/salty about my current deck *cough* Keldeo EX *cough*. I'm building a fire deck which functions the same way as Keldeo Ex (posted on the unlimited deck thread, which I called FlareBoar), and I'm in the process of modernizing the Slowking Trainer Lock deck from the Neo Genesis era lol.
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:55 PM   #4
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Organizing Standard and Expanded tournaments should be the norm, especially if the store wants its tournaments to be sanctioned.

If you're holding Unlimited tournaments with prizes, making an extensive banlist should be a priority, since nothing prevents someone from using a good unlimited deck that will either win on turn 1 or prevent the opponent from playng on turn 1.
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Old 11-20-2016, 11:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantidactyle View Post
Organizing Standard and Expanded tournaments should be the norm, especially if the store wants its tournaments to be sanctioned.

If you're holding Unlimited tournaments with prizes, making an extensive banlist should be a priority, since nothing prevents someone from using a good unlimited deck that will either win on turn 1 or prevent the opponent from playng on turn 1.
Any thoughts on a possible list that could be implemented? We (myself and all other current and soon returning players) did agree that since Lysandre's Trump Card is banned in Expanded and Standard, it would follow suit for unsanctioned Unlimited due to it stalling games out. I am not aware of any official ban lists from TPCi for Unlimited, just a small few cards for Expanded and possibly Standard. I personally haven't used any cards older than Black and White in my current deck, but I know some of the younger players have a few cards here and there going back to the WotC era. My new decks will have a number of older cards though.

Could you also clarify on the rotation for Expanded for me? From how I interpret it, starting in 2017, no sets will be rotated out for this or subsequent seasons. I assume that means that Black and White to present will be the set legality from now on.
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Old 11-21-2016, 12:14 AM   #6
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Expanded is still BW-on: http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-ne...tion-for-2017/

And for Unlimited, this would include things like:
(Super) Energy Removal (no comment)
Broken Time Space / Forest of Giant Plants (no comment)
Lysandre's Trump Card (no comment)
SF Sableye (you want to go first in Unlimited)
Jolteon Star / Crobat G / others that put damage markers on drop (first turn kill)
AQ Espeon (Energy drop combos)
LA Forretress (first turn kill)
NXD Shiftry / Masaki Gengar / Seeker / others that remove Pokémon from the board on drop (first turn kill)
Dark Vileplume / Neo Slowking / Chaos Gym / others that prevents Trainers + Stadiums + Supporters
Umbreon Star / The Rocket's Trap / Lass / others that destroy the opponent's hand on turn 1
LA Uxie / Promo Shuckle / Prof Oak / Erika / Poké Drawer + / others that draw cards too easily
Computer Search / Item Finder / others that combo discard + search on any card
Scoop Up / Scoop Up Cyclone / other drop combo enablers

Yep, it's a long list, but allow any of these cards and I'll guarantee there's a degenerate deck that can be built with it.

There's also Unlimited 150, which is 100 card singleton with its own ruleset, it (obviously) requires a ton of old cards:
https://www.facebook.com/unlimited150/about/
So maybe allowing proxies would be a good idea if you go that route.

Last edited by Mantidactyle : 11-21-2016 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 11-21-2016, 11:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantidactyle View Post
Expanded is still BW-on: http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-ne...tion-for-2017/

And for Unlimited, this would include things like:
(Super) Energy Removal (no comment)
Broken Time Space / Forest of Giant Plants (no comment)
Lysandre's Trump Card (no comment)
SF Sableye (you want to go first in Unlimited)
Jolteon Star / Crobat G / others that put damage markers on drop (first turn kill)
AQ Espeon (Energy drop combos)
LA Forretress (first turn kill)
NXD Shiftry / Masaki Gengar / Seeker / others that remove Pokémon from the board on drop (first turn kill)
Dark Vileplume / Neo Slowking / Chaos Gym / others that prevents Trainers + Stadiums + Supporters
Umbreon Star / The Rocket's Trap / Lass / others that destroy the opponent's hand on turn 1
LA Uxie / Promo Shuckle / Prof Oak / Erika / Poké Drawer + / others that draw cards too easily
Computer Search / Item Finder / others that combo discard + search on any card
Scoop Up / Scoop Up Cyclone / other drop combo enablers

Yep, it's a long list, but allow any of these cards and I'll guarantee there's a degenerate deck that can be built with it.

There's also Unlimited 150, which is 100 card singleton with its own ruleset, it (obviously) requires a ton of old cards:
https://www.facebook.com/unlimited150/about/
So maybe allowing proxies would be a good idea if you go that route.
Essentially with the bans, I should ban any cards that support the more well-known Donk decks? The list gives me ideas for a Shiftry/Slowking Donk deck LOL. Probably going to use it with my friends though. Should I possibly hit the LuxChomp deck also assuming anybody has the cards for it?
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Old 11-21-2016, 04:31 PM   #8
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There is no official Ban list for Unlimited. If you ever do a Sanctioned Unlimited event the 2 cards from Expanded should be banned, Computer Search and Item Finder would be considered Ace Specs and could only be played with the actual Ace Spec card,

For Unsanctioned you can create your own Ban List. Just be advised that for every card you ban, another will be used in it's place.

Store owners can do what they want. But i would bring up your YGO example if he tried to ban you or your deck.
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJJ763 View Post
There is no official Ban list for Unlimited. If you ever do a Sanctioned Unlimited event the 2 cards from Expanded should be banned, Computer Search and Item Finder would be considered Ace Specs and could only be played with the actual Ace Spec card,

For Unsanctioned you can create your own Ban List. Just be advised that for every card you ban, another will be used in it's place.

Store owners can do what they want. But i would bring up your YGO example if he tried to ban you or your deck.
Basically with Computer Search and Item Finder, could I allow them, but having to treat them as if they were the current print of the card (in this case as an Ace Spec)?

I agree on the custom ban list. It's like a hydra. Take out one card, another one, two or even three worse cards can take their place. Outside of Birthday Pikachu, Ancient Mew, Japanese and special set cards like worlds decks (different backs), and Lysandre's Trump Card...I most likely will not go any further than that on an Unlimited Format ban list. Nobody that I know of has the NXD Shiftry presently. I won't have them for a while til I get some money ahead. A couple players have at least one copy of Lysandre's Trump Card though.

So, the store owner can bar any deck he wants even though he isn't the TO for events? Might be a small problem if some players get too salty about my decks potentially being better (sadly, I've encountered those who would abuse such a thing). Yeah, I will bring up the YGO situation if he does try to bar me or my current Keldeo EX deck from competing in unsanctioned events. I'm certified as a TCG judge, so I know I am not allowed to compete in sanctioned events if judging. In my area, YGO has been dominated by certain meta decks and it isn't fair to those who can't afford the top tier decks to have to be dominated by them weekly, even at a small local. That's why I took an indefinite break from YGO to play Pokemon. Pokemon is less expensive than YGO for a competitive deck in my opinion, plus the ban list in Pokemon is a fraction of the size.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:37 AM   #10
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Welp, just pray no player comes with a real Unlimited deck then :P
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Old 11-22-2016, 05:24 PM   #11
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Welp, just pray no player comes with a real Unlimited deck then :P
Yeah no kidding. Here's hoping anyways. Maybe the salt will prevail. Time will tell.
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Old 11-27-2016, 02:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Basically with Computer Search and Item Finder, could I allow them, but having to treat them as if they were the current print of the card (in this case as an Ace Spec)?
Sanctioned events use the most recent printing for any card. Technically you could not allow Base CPU Search or Item Finder. Often you can use the original card that was reprinted in your deck and have the reprinted card outside your deck to use as a reference. Since an ACE SPEC version would be needed the Base version couldn't be played - if you have the ACE SPEC you should be playing it and not using it as a reference.
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Old 12-03-2016, 08:39 AM   #13
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Wow so you use your age and wisdom to completely ruin the game for the kids and their the ones with a problem. If you was a parent to one of the kids wouldn't you be annoyed a man was turning up with unlimited funds to build that killer deck.

Sure you can say your the boss come beat me but to be on a stage first the kids should compete with each other and the winner gets to try their luck against the err MEGAkingION.

Maybe use your wisdom and adult qualities to beat them with the weakest deck. Then the final mega battle you get to use your "special" deck.

Additional Comment:

Or have an over 15s scene alongside the kids scene. How many kids will lose interest being beat by an impossible player every week. Won't it hurt the whole game in the area more. Seems silly to not just lighten up the deck.

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Old 12-13-2016, 01:05 PM   #14
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The issue is that a store who is seeking to hold sanctioned tournaments is considering banning a player who is winning at tournaments where prizes are handed.

It doesn't matter if he is "ruining the game for thekids", there are prizes to be won, the issue isn't on the winning player's side.

Should he feel sorry for winning ? What the hell dude.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCbutcher View Post
Wow so you use your age and wisdom to completely ruin the game for the kids and their the ones with a problem. If you was a parent to one of the kids wouldn't you be annoyed a man was turning up with unlimited funds to build that killer deck.

Sure you can say your the boss come beat me but to be on a stage first the kids should compete with each other and the winner gets to try their luck against the err MEGAkingION.

Maybe use your wisdom and adult qualities to beat them with the weakest deck. Then the final mega battle you get to use your "special" deck.

Additional Comment:

Or have an over 15s scene alongside the kids scene. How many kids will lose interest being beat by an impossible player every week. Won't it hurt the whole game in the area more. Seems silly to not just lighten up the deck.
First of all, I didn't use my age or wisdom of the game to ruin it in any way. In fact, prior to October last year, I haven't picked up a Pokemon deck since the early 2000s. Got frustrated with Yugioh being too expensive and boring lately, so I decided to pick up Pokemon again.

Secondly, I don't have unlimited funds, considering I'm working on my bachelor's degree. The kids had more money (from their parents mind you) and time to work on their decks than I have as of late. Personally? I modified a pre-constructed deck with a few of my better pulls to suit my play style. Only invested about $80 at most over a couple weeks. One of the kid's parents also plays the game at the store, and I knew him from back in the late 90's when I first played the game. His Mewtwo EX deck is about as OP as my current deck lol.

Considering the lack of over 15's currently, I have to hold events as a mixed age group. Otherwise, there wouldn't be enough people for a tournament. If any of them went to a premier event, I am willing to bet the decks there are even more OP than mine is by far. I do like the suggestion about the "boss battle." I'll start planning something like that for a later date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantidactyle View Post
The issue is that a store who is seeking to hold sanctioned tournaments is considering banning a player who is winning at tournaments where prizes are handed.

It doesn't matter if he is "ruining the game for the kids", there are prizes to be won, the issue isn't on the winning player's side.

Should he feel sorry for winning ? What the hell dude.
The worry about either my main deck or me personally being barred from unsanctioned tournaments has been alleviated now. I talked to the store owner a few times, and all is good. Had to use the Yugioh point stated earlier. Also helps being a loyal customer since about 1998. As a TO and Judge, I can't compete in my own sanctioned events anyways. Besides, I have some other more OP decks in the works lol.

I did finally get the store sanctioned a few weeks ago, and will be holding the first league session next month. I've been actively trying to recruit people to increase the overall player base, but also the 15+ category. Going to be holding a mixed age team battle once I can gather enough people (one 15+ player and one 14 and under per team). The younger players are definitely on board for that one.
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