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Old 03-06-2013, 02:25 PM   #1
sinistral serpent
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Default Van'dalgyon and Eclipse wyvern ruling

1) Eclipse Wyvern is sent to the graveyard and I banish Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord with it's effect.
2) I summon Lightpulsar Dragon banishing a dark monster and the Eclipse Wyvern. (To my understanding Eclipse Wyvern's 2nd effect would activate).
3) the opponent responds with Bottomless Trap Hole, and I negate it with Solemn Judgment.

Question:
1) Would Van'dalgyon be able to summon itself when the counter trap is played?
2) If the opponent responded with Solemn Warning/judgment instead of Bottomless Trap Hole, would van'dalgyon be able to summon itself?

Previously official ruling: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Van'Dalgyon_the_Dark_Dragon_Lord
If you draw "Van'Dalgyon the Dark Dragon Lord" during the Chain your Counter Trap Card negates the effect of your opponent's card(s), you can activate its effect after the Chain resolves.

Thanks for your response.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #2
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Wyvern needs to wait for the summon of Pulsar to finish before its effect can trigger. Once the summon is successful (or negated), Wyvern starts a chain and you would have

CL1: Wyvern
CL2: BTH
CL3: Solemn Judgment

Resolve backwards
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:35 PM   #3
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Eclipse effect would be CL1 at Lightpulsar summon, BTH chains at CL2 and Judgment at CL3.

Resolving:
CL3 - Negates BTH
CL2 - Resolves without effect
CL1 - Add Van'Dalgyon to hand.

Then, Van'Dalgyon activates after the chain is resolved as CL1 starting a new chain.

If the summon is negated, Eclipse will activate after that chain resolves. Van can't be summoned.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:42 PM   #4
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Okay so to be sure, you guys are saying that Van'dalgyon can summon itself in the Bottomless Trap Hole scenario?

And I am going to say that if the opp responded with a counter trap, Van'dalgyon CANNOT summon itself because it was added in a different chain. Am I correct?

Edit: Nevermind I realized you answered both already. Thanks for your help.

Last edited by sinistral serpent : 03-06-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batteryman guy View Post
Okay so to be sure, you guys are saying that Van'dalgyon can summon itself in the Bottomless Trap Hole scenario?

And I am going to say that if the opp responded with a counter trap, Van'dalgyon CANNOT summon itself because it was added in a different chain. Am I correct?
Eclipse activates after the successful summon of Lightpulsar. So if the summon is successful you can summon Van, if not you cant (in that specific ocasion).
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:04 PM   #6
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cosmetiago is wrong. You cannot activate Van'Dalgyon's effect. This is because the Counter trap card already negated something before it was even in the hand to see that happen.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unities View Post
cosmetiago is wrong. You cannot activate Van'Dalgyon's effect. This is because the Counter trap card already negated something before it was even in the hand to see that happen.
Its ruling doesn't state that.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:54 PM   #8
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Can someone confirm this? I am leaning towards you can activate Van'dalgyon. My reasoning is that if you couldn't, it would also not allow you to use other copies of Van in your hand, as your opponent would not know if that was the one you searched or if you always had it before the chain started (I am aware you can only activate one Van'dalgyon per chain).

Thanks for your input.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:05 PM   #9
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You can't activate Vandy to Special Summon it, since it wasn't in the hand when the Counter Trap was activated (and resolved).
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:12 PM   #10
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I always understood that you could SS the Vandy you drew off of the effect of Bountiful Artemis or does this stem from Artemis' old text?
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:25 PM   #11
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Hmmm I think I screwed up this one.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer of Chaos View Post
I always understood that you could SS the Vandy you drew off of the effect of Bountiful Artemis or does this stem from Artemis' old text?
Don't forget Artemis is a Continuous effect. The difference here is that drawing it off Artemis happens within the Counter Trap card's Chain link after you resolve the Counter Trap card. Van'Dalgyon added in a separate Chain Link via Wyvern is totally different as the Counter Trap Card's link has fully resolved.
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Last edited by Unities : 03-07-2013 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:37 PM   #13
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Van'Dalgyon can Special Summon itself even if it's added to the hand in the same chain that the Counter Trap resolves, because the hand isn't public. This is even in its rulings.. I would expect you guys to check them.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
Van'Dalgyon can Special Summon itself even if it's added to the hand in the same chain that the Counter Trap resolves, because the hand isn't public. This is even in its rulings.. I would expect you guys to check them.
Thanks Redshift, I was pretty sure I was right.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
Van'Dalgyon can Special Summon itself even if it's added to the hand in the same chain that the Counter Trap resolves, because the hand isn't public. This is even in its rulings.. I would expect you guys to check them.
I can't trust the way UDE worded their rulings.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiTcb View Post
I can't trust the way UDE worded their rulings.
That's fine. It was Konami who worded it.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:44 PM   #17
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I'm trying to think of another example of this interaction that is similar to this but I can't think of anything.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiTcb View Post
I can't trust the way UDE worded their rulings.
I agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
Van'Dalgyon can Special Summon itself even if it's added to the hand in the same chain that the Counter Trap resolves, because the hand isn't public. This is even in its rulings.. I would expect you guys to check them.
This makes perfect sense now that we know the reason behind the ruling. Too bad rulings usual never tell us the reason behind it.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:30 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer of Chaos View Post
I'm trying to think of another example of this interaction that is similar to this but I can't think of anything.
I think the only comparable situation this would happen in is when you draw it during the chain with Reckless Greed. The confusion lies in the fact that Van'dalgyon is public knowledge just until it is added to the hand.

CL3: Solemn negates bottomless
CL2: Bottomless resolves w/o effect
CL1: Reckless Greed into Van'dalgyon

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