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Old 01-04-2013, 12:07 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Rick Dias View Post
Tewart stated we could have OCG-like product when we started acting like them. But again, what does that even mean?
Look at CDIP. Everything it was was what the OCG wanted. And everything it is is what the TCG hated.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:12 PM   #102
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Let me put it like this: Gold Series is actually a TCG-original product which the OCG copied, so the TCG Gold Series is the par, while the OCG ones would be above-par.
Sub-par is the wrong term on my part, aaaaaaand, bringing up the Tewart quote is also incorrect I suppose, given the context, so allow me to use a different sentence with a different quote:

Even if OCG Gold Series didn't exist, TCG Gold Series is a bad product loaded with bland filler, both card-wise and packaging-wise.

I agree wholeheartedly with Blatch: OCG Gold Series is what TCG Gold Series should have always been

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Various market and Organized Play reasons.
I should have been clearer on this too: That question was more along the lines of me just thinking out loud, only you know, in text form. That's the kind of question where specifics are wanted. Obviously, I'm not about to expect you to know said specifics.

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Look at CDIP. Everything it was was what the OCG wanted. And everything it is is what the TCG hated.
Sooooo, buy everything ever, regardless of quality?

Seems to me that a lot of players do that, already. Soooooo, where's them OCG-like products, Konami?
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:24 PM   #103
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Sooooo, buy everything ever, regardless of quality?

Seems to me that a lot of players do that, already. Soooooo, where's them OCG-like products, Konami?
Nonono. You have to get the playerbase to first accept that CDIP was a good product. It'll be an impossible feat since that requires completely changing the tastes of society.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:38 PM   #104
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Nonono. You have to get the playerbase to first accept that CDIP was a good product. It'll be an impossible feat since that requires completely changing the tastes of society.
Does the OCG even like CDIP, though? When was the last time we had a level monster? How about the Senet series?

Are you sure it's not a case of "Buy all our playsets and toys! (regardless of quality)" ?
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:11 PM   #105
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:22 PM   #106
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TCG Gold Series is a bad product loaded with bland filler, both card-wise and packaging-wise.
Packaging-wise? Yes, I've criticized that since day 1 and I love Gold Cards.

Quote:
Are you sure it's not a case of "Buy all our playsets and toys! (regardless of quality)" ?
More like your standards of "quality" are different.

Quote:
That's the kind of question where specifics are wanted. Obviously, I'm not about to expect you to know said specifics.
I could go on for a long while, but in summary, it's because:
a) They don't have that many reprint products.
b) They have a ton of promos that aren't reprinted, and when the OCG says "promotional", they do mean "get it in the promotion or lose it".
c) What works in the TCG doesn't necessarily work in the OCG and viceversa.
d) The lack of a competitive enviroment/Organized Play in the OCG is also a relevant factor.

You can then look at a few products and match the dots accordingly.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:18 PM   #107
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Packaging-wise? Yes, I've criticized that since day 1 and I love Gold Cards.
Yeah, golds look snazzy, though it really does depend on the foiling type used for the gold and the card in question.

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More like your standards of "quality" are different.
Gold Series in the TCG at least, is supposed to be a hobby product that reprints the defining cards of a past years format. At least, that's how it started. So far as I know, though, that mission statement hasn't changed.

So, let's look at Gold 5.

I can't think of a single tournament that occurred that involved Dark Scorpions and zombies not named Plaguespreader, can you?

This is what I mean by bland filler and "regardless of quality".

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I could go on for a long while, but in summary, it's because:
a) They don't have that many reprint products.
TCG only has so many because of rarity boosts and the like.

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Originally Posted by ness00 View Post
b) They have a ton of promos that aren't reprinted, and when the OCG says "promotional", they do mean "get it in the promotion or lose it".
Fair enough. I still don't see why this has to mean that TCGs Gold Series should be so clunky, though.

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c) What works in the TCG doesn't necessarily work in the OCG and viceversa.
Granted. But can you honestly tell me a majority of people bought Gold 5 for those Dark Scorpions? (And don't get me wrong, I loves me some Dark Scorpions. Just not in a set that's supposed to be "competitive".)

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d) The lack of a competitive enviroment/Organized Play in the OCG is also a relevant factor.
Wouldn't that suggest that these Gold Series should be switched, then? TCGs Gold Series is LESS competitive than the OCGs based upon the cards that are generally put in and how they're put in.

...It doesn't add up in my mind.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:58 PM   #108
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Gold Series in the TCG at least, is supposed to be a hobby product that reprints the defining cards of a past years format. At least, that's how it started. So far as I know, though, that mission statement hasn't changed.

So, let's look at Gold 5.

I can't think of a single tournament that occurred that involved Dark Scorpions and zombies not named Plaguespreader, can you?

This is what I mean by bland filler and "regardless of quality".
But you are no longer talking about CDIP here.

Also, GLD5 took a clearly different route from GLD1. It was a themed product. Did Blue-Eyes top recently? I can see that MST was used in a few competitive Decks, but by that logic, shouldn't we be getting a gold MST reprint every year? Common zombies that were already available as Commons? They went for a themed product. We'll see this year how successful that truly was.

Quote:
TCG only has so many because of rarity boosts and the like.
And we get rarities changed because of TCG and OCG market differences. It's all tied together. You can't isolate an aspect like "THE OCG HAS RARE CARDCAR D" without looking at the whole picture on why the TCG may want to push it as a Secret Rare while the OCG keeps it as a Rare and what each market can do with their other products in the long term.

Quote:
Fair enough. I still don't see why this has to mean that TCGs Gold Series should be so clunky, though.
OK, here's an example:
You want that Lavalval Chain? The OCG doesn't get Hidden Arsenal, and not 1 day has passed in the TCG where this Card is legal while in the OCG it's been almost 3 years since this Card has been out, never printed lower than a DT Ultra. The same happens with Naturia Beast.

Or maybe you want Beast King Barbaros, which took the OCG three years to reprint from Shueisha's dreaded Limited Editions. Doesn't it seem weird that a product whose name is precisely "limited edition" doesn't get reprints?

It's not that the TCG ones are so clunky in comparison to the OCG, but more like the OCG gets plenty of good Cards delayed long enough and later compressed in a single product.

Quote:
Granted. But can you honestly tell me a majority of people bought Gold 5 for those Dark Scorpions? (And don't get me wrong, I loves me some Dark Scorpions. Just not in a set that's supposed to be "competitive".)
I love Gold Rares and saw zero need to buy Gold Series 5 altogether. But again, they tried something new. Time will tell us if it failed. And we can't relate a themed product to the preceding four Gold Series packs.

Quote:
Wouldn't that suggest that these Gold Series should be switched, then? TCGs Gold Series is LESS competitive than the OCGs based upon the cards that are generally put in and how they're put in.

...It doesn't add up in my mind.
Again, all aspects are tied together. You reprint something when it lacks availability. In the TCG, where competition is the main factor, the Cards with little availability are the competitive ones. Therefore, you reprint them faster. In the vast catalogue of reprint sets you have in the TCG. Like you said, the whole project started with reprinting the good Cards used last year. And we are getting plenty of Cards reprinted after a year over and over in tins, Special Editions, and hobby support.

But in the OCG, since they barely compete, there's neither too many products with reprints nor a huge demand for reprints. The Cards that are reprinted are the Cards that cannot be obtained. The demand is generated by time, not competition. And not because "****, Troll and Toad is charging me an extra dollar that what I'm willing to pay", but because of things like Stratos not having any other print that isn't its VJMP print from almost 7 years ago or its DT print from almost 3 and a half years ago. And despite Stratos being good, the OCG Gold Series still have oddballs like Momonga or Destiny Board or Watapon because of how hard to get they are, through sheer time.

Meanwhile, in the TCG, you reprint Spellbook Organization in a set focused on gold mines because you need to change its name =/
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:09 PM   #109
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But can those reasons justify such horribly sub-par Gold Series products in the case of the TCG?

And, honestly speaking. I'm curious. What are those number of reasons? Tewart stated we could have OCG-like product when we started acting like them. But again, what does that even mean?
Have horrible scanners, have a lot of small tournaments in which ZeXal.dek wins, and have a Blackwing fetish.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #110
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@Ness: I was planning a reply, but it's obvious to me that I'm just not gonna "get it". My reply as I was thinking it out was just turning into stuff like: "TCG has had its fair share of highly limited cards for years on years," and "TCG had to wait 10+ years for freaking Mystical Ref Panel of all cards." I just can't wrap my head around why a bad product should be released when a good product can take its place, so I'm just gonna stick to my initial statement of agreeing with Blatch: OCG GS is what TCG GS should always have been.

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Have horrible scanners, have a lot of small tournaments in which ZeXal.dek wins, and have a Blackwing fetish.
I can do two and three, but I refuse to downgrade mah technology. I love my printer and it loves me.

It also turns into a gundam. So there's also that.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:41 PM   #111
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Who cares about Mystical Refpanel? I wanted Electromagnetic Bagworm! What do I pull? Freaking Dark Rabbit. *rambles in angrish*
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:24 PM   #112
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why a bad product should be released when a good product can take its place
Because a good product for the TCG is not necessarily a good product for the OCG.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:12 PM   #113
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Because a good product for the TCG is not necessarily a good product for the OCG.
I'm guessing Japan will never get our Battle Packs? I don't see any bad with KDE not using the idea though.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:18 PM   #114
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I'm guessing Japan will never get our Battle Packs? I don't see any bad with KDE not using the idea though.
It's all a matter of time. Two years ago you would think the OCG would never get any semblance of Organized Play, and now they are holding weekly events at Locals. With mediocre prize support, yes, but at least it's something. I doubt they'll get Battle Packs, considering how they are celebrating how awesome the new Tournament Packs are, even if they are awful =/
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:39 PM   #115
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Because a good product for the TCG is not necessarily a good product for the OCG.
>Was talking about TCG getting a Gold Series closer to that of the OCG's...now beyond confused and not even sure if we were ever talking about the same thing to begin with.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:18 PM   #116
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>Was talking about TCG getting a Gold Series closer to that of the OCG's...now beyond confused and not even sure if we were ever talking about the same thing to begin with.
Don't worry, we were.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:14 PM   #117
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We have no 804 to spam? DDD:

Ok, well, got 3 Ultimate 1st Harpye-Queen today. I am ready.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:02 PM   #118
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Hmm, 4X Veilers, 4X Warnings, 2X Mind Control... I'll get these all next month.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:23 PM   #119
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Hmm, 4X Veilers, 4X Warnings, 2X Mind Control... I'll get these all next month.
For one deck, obviously.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:41 AM   #120
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On the GS discussion:

don't forget, Meanae was actually viable in a CCV sense back when CCV had relevance

Also, the TCG has PSCT as an EXPLICIT consideration as reason to reprint certain things in certain places: the development of "what would LC03 become" was a part of that.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:57 AM   #121
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Meanae was actually viable in a CCV sense back when CCV had relevance
Atem confirming Pitch-Black Warwolf in GLD6.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:03 AM   #122
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It's b/c of CDIP that I got top 8 at SJC San Jose back in 2006. I appreciate the set.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:41 PM   #123
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Meh. I just like how the OCG players treat it more like a game instead of some weird quasi-money-sharking-lifestyle. If anything, my locals was ripped right out of the OCG because there's always ZeXal.dek being ran. Even if a "tier 1" *cuts self for using that term* deck is used, the guy is always cool and the decks don't run around castarating all the ZeXal.dek players.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:10 PM   #124
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The trick with me and Zexal or 5ds.dek is as long as they don't take a win or loss with an overreaction and are receptive of reasonable advice in the event of a loss, then I'n just fine with them.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:30 PM   #125
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