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Old 11-28-2012, 03:31 AM   #1
xiaomenglin06
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Default Questions about missing the timing

Hello, I got some questions about the timing of Mermail - Abyssdine.
This was originally posted by HatsMan:
Quote:
This is my very very very convoluted play that shows where Dine stands in this whole wombo combo that Mermails can pull off.

Opponent attacks you directly

CHAIN 1:
Chain Abyssphere
RESOLUTION1:
SS Abysslinde

Linde attacked, destroyed
CHAIN2
Abysslinde activates
RESOLUTION 2
Special Summon Abysspike

CHAIN 3
Abysspike Triggers, discard Abyssgunde
RESOLUTION 3
Abyssdine added to hand

CHAIN 4
Abyssgunde triggers, Abyssdine triggers. Going by SEGOC rules, Gunde's "If..you can" places it in an earlier than chan Dine's "When...you can"
RESOLUTION 4 (in order)
a. Dine resolves, SS's itself (Due to When...YouCan, she is not the last thing to resolve, missing her opportunity to trigger)
b. Gunde resolves, SS's Abyssturge
Dine misses the timing and her "Gunde" effect does not trigger. Meaning that if you intend to trigger her effect entirely with Abysspike or Abyssturge, you cannot discard an Atlantean or Gunde/Hilde. They take precedence when it comes to SEGOC, so Dine will very often miss her effect when paired with them.

CHAIN 5 is just whatever you want to do with Abyssturge from that point.
So if I decided not to activate Gunde's effect, will Dine still miss her timing? (This is similar to the optional effect of Magical Dimension when summoning Dark Magician of Chaos)
Also, I know that with Atlantean, the effect is mandatory, so when resolved, Dine misses her timing. What if I discarded Marksman but opponent does not have a set card on the field? Will Dine miss her timing in this case then?
Thanks all.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:22 AM   #2
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The effect of Mermail Abyssdine to Special Summon itself cannot be activated in the Damage Step, and the 4th Chain in your quote is still in the Damage Step.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:15 AM   #3
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There are also other inaccuracies.

1. SEGOC rules don't say that "If" effects have to be placed before "When" effects. Not sure where you read that.

2. The effect of Abyssdine can only be used once per turn. Since you already used its effect to Special Summon itself from your hand (assuming this was not the Damage Step), you can't activate her second effect in the same turn.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:06 AM   #4
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OK, thanks guys.
Actually, I just read about this card on wiki, it says:
"When this card is added from your Deck or Graveyard to your hand by a card effect, if you control a face-up "Mermail" monster: You can Special Summon this card from your hand."
This is considered to be HER OWN effect, so even if she is retrieved by Turge or Pike and gets special summoned to the field, she is not considered special summoned by a Mermail monster.
It has nothing to do with missing the timing. She cannot activate her second effect regardless of what Turge/Pike is discarding.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaomenglin06 View Post
This is considered to be HER OWN effect, so even if she is retrieved by Turge or Pike and gets special summoned to the field, she is not considered special summoned by a Mermail monster.
Mermail Abyssdine is, herself, a "Mermail" monster.
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I'm pretty sure that 2500 + 500 is 3000, not 2500, but I don't have a calculator on me to make sure.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
1. SEGOC rules don't say that "If" effects have to be placed before "When" effects. Not sure where you read that.
True but in the TCG, there is the Triggered Order ruling. Gunde was discarded as a cost first, so it triggered first and therefore is first in the SEGOC since both of the cards are optional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MATT001 View Post
Mermail Abyssdine is, herself, a "Mermail" monster.
True but there is nothing to indicate the ambiguity of its card text. Whether its effect or effects can only be used once per turn is still in question. Japanese doesn't have plural form so we will have to wait for either an OCG ruling or PSCT.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unities View Post
True but there is nothing to indicate the ambiguity of its card text. Whether its effect or effects can only be used once per turn is still in question. Japanese doesn't have plural form so we will have to wait for either an OCG ruling or PSCT.
The preliminary ruling does say it applies to both effects, i.e. you pick one or the other to use this turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unities
True but in the TCG, there is the Triggered Order ruling. Gunde was discarded as a cost first, so it triggered first and therefore is first in the SEGOC since both of the cards are optional.
Oh, we're going by TCG rules? Then you can't have Mermail Abyssdine in your Deck.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unities View Post
True but there is nothing to indicate the ambiguity of its card text. Whether its effect or effects can only be used once per turn is still in question. Japanese doesn't have plural form so we will have to wait for either an OCG ruling or PSCT.
Sure, but she is still Special Summoned by a "Mermail".
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I'm pretty sure that 2500 + 500 is 3000, not 2500, but I don't have a calculator on me to make sure.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
Oh, we're going by TCG rules? Then you can't have Mermail Abyssdine in your Deck.
We are in the TCG section no? =P

@Matt: I never disagreed with you on that point.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unities View Post
We are in the TCG section no? =P
There is no card in the TCG called Mermail Abyssdine. There won't be until January.
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Also note that since the card uses the "if... you can" construction, it's impossible to miss the timing
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unities View Post
We are in the TCG section no? =P

@Matt: I never disagreed with you on that point.
Fair enough. We are, then, in agreement.
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Thank you for saving the thread MATT, I was ready to tear my eye balls out.
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I'm pretty sure that 2500 + 500 is 3000, not 2500, but I don't have a calculator on me to make sure.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:54 AM   #12
xiaomenglin06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MATT001 View Post
Mermail Abyssdine is, herself, a "Mermail" monster.
Yea I was thinking the same thing too, just thought it was weird... LOL.

Anyways, if what Redshift said is true (about choosing 1 effect per turn), then I guess it doesn't matter...
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