Dark Monsters Ruin the Game

[Arcaos]

It took me a while, but I have come to the conclusion that Konami cannot make balanced Dark monsters. Of the Forbidden/Limited List, 35 out of 63 (more than 50%) of monsters are dark.

Moreover, many of the monsters there are forbidden/limited due to their relation with dark monsters.For example, Bestiari is limited because of the Dark Attribute Gyzarus. Goyo Guardian was most commonly played by the Blackwing archetype. Yata-Garasu is at its worst with Chaos Emperor Dragon.

Dark monsters also destroy/imbalance archetypes. Six Samurai's got their Dark boss monster and everything went to hell. Lightsworn were around for a long time and just fine until they got their Chaos options. Elemental heroes were a balanced, albeit crappy archetype but when their dark Destiny cousins came out, down came the banhammers.

Dark monsters also have the most overpowered tools. Excluding chaos support, there's Crush Card, DAD, and Allure of Darkness. That's excluding the powerful support for dark attribute archetypes.

Then there's the Dark type splashables; Gorz, Trag, Tour Guide, and Sangan among the legal ones. These are cards that need justification to be left out of decks.

This could really be seen with Inzektors, because once they came out the deck was practically built for them due to the insane amount of dark support. The Dark attribute has too much history and related baggage, they don't need any new cards to add onto it.

Finally, on a cultural level, Dark monsters are everywhere. The cool boss monster/ultimate trump monsters are dark in the large majority of cases. Rarely can a player say they want to leave them out. Even in the Anime, the Dark Magician won in the end over it's light counterpart.

I propose an outright ban on new dark attribute monsters. There are plenty to choose from as is, but the other attributes have so little that makes them playable.

Not only that, but there are literally so many dark monsters and related support that it's hard for Konami to make new yet powerful cards for the other archetypes. There's only so many good combinations of game mechanics and Dark monsters have taken most of them. Can you imagine if Blackwings were Wind? Or DAD was instead a water type boss monster? Would those meta-defining decks be so crazy if they didn't have a years of over-powered support behind them?

Wasn't water supposed to be the drawing atttribute, with cards like Moray of Greed, Fortune Lady Water and Genex Ally Solid (though ironically he's Dark)? Wasn't Fire supposed to be about low attack burn damage? Earth about swarming and wind about spell/trap manipulation? I know this couldn't be a constant theme, but Dark is almost certainly better at all those things than their intended attributes.

This thread is in the Forb/Limit forum because it is a preemptive ban on all future dark monsters good and bad. Please, support the ending of madness.

[HochDeutsch]

You are 100% correct - the prevalence of DARK is a huge, pervasive, and fundamental problem with Yu-Gi-Oh! All of our best cards are DARK, all of our best archetypes are DARK, all of the best support cards work with DARKs...

but banning all new DARK monsters is really not a very good way to approach the problem, in my opinion. If you want to balance DARK, there are two ways to do it:
ban old stuff or make new stuff

Konami is admittedly working on making new stuff for the other Attributes - we have an EARTH and WATER version of Armageddon Knight coming out, and LIGHT just got some good bosses with the Lightrays; EARTH is getting Grand Soil.

The other approach is to start banning some of the most problematic stuff. DARK does get more support - like Dark Illusion and Dark Crusader - but those cards are bad. Just hit the actually good stuff and you'll start to solve the problem. Tour Guide needs to be hit, some of the best DARK Extra Deck monsters could stand to be hit, Allure of Darkness absolutely needs to be banned (not because of how good it is, but because of the power boost it gives DARK), Gorz and Red-Eyes need to be hit, Chaos needs to be hit (BLS banned, already!), Inzektors too. If all sorts of stuff like this is done (maybe even going so far as to hit cards as lame as Sangan or Ally of Justice Catastor), plus the new Attribute support comes out, this problem is actually concievably solvable.

Of course, I have zero faith that Konami will do it... but it's at least possible, and definitely without banning "all new DARK monsters".

[Ancien Regime]

Why does it matter that DARK is the best archetype? I mean, really?

It's like complaining that the best Pokemon are Dragons or something like that.

I mean, seriously, why is DARK being the best archetype competitively relevant at all?

[IchiKuro]

b/c being the best means they get all the outrageous support that synergizes like crazy together. Which leads to this broken **** that this game has come to.

[Arcaos]

Originally Posted by Ancien Regime

Why does it matter that DARK is the best archetype? I mean, really?

It's like complaining that the best Pokemon are Dragons or something like that.

I mean, seriously, why is DARK being the best archetype competitively relevant at all?

a. Your pokemon example is irrelevant. If there was an equip item that was broken and only worked for dragons, people would hate dragons too.

b. Reread my post because I clearly explain how dark monsters make the other attributes inherently weaker and less diverse

[HarleyThomas]

Wow. I never thought of that at all. Weird as I tend to run Chaos variants or decks that have a lot of Dark monsters.

I always thought it was because I was a tortured soul full of inner darkness.

[Chaos3600]

I'm glad someone else has caught on to what has been easy to figure out knowledge in the last 4 years.

Good read, except the part about banning all future DARKs. DARKs don't need to be executed, they just need to not be given all the goodies.

[joshy118]

Inzektors aren't broken because they're DARK.

Gyzarus wasn't broken because it was DARK.

Lightsworn didn't bcome relevant because of Sorcerer/BLS being unbanned, wtf are you talking about?

Yata-Garasu wasn't broken because CED was DARK.

Shi En isn't broken because it's DARK.

[Chaos3600]

Originally Posted by joshy118

Inzektors aren't broken because they're DARK.

Gyzarus wasn't broken because it was DARK.

Lightsworn didn't bcome relevant because of Sorcerer/BLS being unbanned, wtf are you talking about?

Yata-Garasu wasn't broken because CED was DARK.

Shi En isn't broken because it's DARK.

That wasn't his point.

He's saying most of the busted crap in the game is at least loosly affiliated with the DARK attribute, even if said affliiation is not worth anything. He's saying that DARKs in general get far better support than the other attributes, which is true. He's saying that DARKs are the "do everything well" attribute as oppossed to just having one thing they are specialized for (as is the case with FIRE and WATER).

That's pretty much it. He's not actually saying that "X, Y, an Z are broken because its DARK", he's saying that "X, Y, and Z are broken and it happens to be DARK". That's it.

[Camero]

If they had made System Down hit DARK monsters, just imagine what this game would be like...

[Slowdoug]

Originally Posted by Ancien Regime

Why does it matter that DARK is the best archetype? I mean, really?

It's like complaining that the best Pokemon are Dragons or something like that.

I mean, seriously, why is DARK being the best archetype competitively relevant at all?

In competative Pokemon, most players feel the same way about dragons as arcaos does about darks: they're too overpowered and have the best support. Much like how grass and fire types can't thrive in a dragon infested metagame, attributes like earth or wind become pointless if dark is the only one with good support.

It's like this: dragons have Draco meteor and dragon dance, while grass has leech seed and sleep powder.

Dark has allure and DAD, while wind has... Simorg, bird of divinity?

When dragons were banned in platinum, the game got better. If we hit some Dark support, the game would become more diverse and more fun

[WinstonShnozwick]

Originally Posted by Camero

If they had made System Down hit DARK monsters, just imagine what this game would be like...

My pants are wet now.

[CyberneticEmperor]

Originally Posted by Slowdoug

In competative Pokemon, most players feel the same way about dragons as arcaos does about darks: they're too overpowered and have the best support. Much like how grass and fire types can't thrive in a dragon infested metagame, attributes like earth or wind become pointless if dark is the only one with good support.

It's like this: dragons have Draco meteor and dragon dance, while grass has leech seed and sleep powder.

Dark has allure and DAD, while wind has... Simorg, bird of divinity?

When dragons were banned in platinum, the game got better. If we hit some Dark support, the game would become more diverse and more fun

Game actually got way worse imo becauseof all the heatran/Shaymin/swampert annoying teams.

[Arcaos]

Originally Posted by Camero

If they had made System Down hit DARK monsters, just imagine what this game would be like...

If we can't get all the Dark monsters banned, I would settle for this new card.

[Slowdoug]

Originally Posted by CyberneticEmperor

Game actually got way worse imo becauseof all the heatran/Shaymin/swampert annoying teams.

I preferred that to the 3 drags 2 mags teams that used to run rampant. To each his own though.

[StarScream]

since a different game (pokemon) was mentioned, it opened the flood gate for cross comparisons.


Think of Yugioh's Dark Attribute as Magic's Black mana type on acid. While it was admitted that black was supposed to encroach on the other colors, it was usually at the cost of heavy draw backs like a higher cost to lower stats (most black flyers, mimicing blue), life payment (most black mana ramp, mimicing green), few and subpar on the whole direct burn spells (obviously mimicing red), and the rare field wipes (mimicing white), and even then, there's STILL things it can't do, like get rid of enchantments/artifacts directly (white/green/red) or flat out counterspelling (blue).


But that's balanced in that game. In Yugioh though... what the flying **** do you call balance of attributes?? They STARTED on the wrong foot though, so its expected. More and more I'm feeling that this game just needs a new format.

[UberDueler]

Lets not forget Konami's revival of Dark World. And wasn't Necroface mill a big problem for a little while?

Allure to 0 would be a good start. It's been keeping those Darks consistent for far to long. Either give Earth,Water, Wind, Fire, Light a draw card like Allure of Darkness or ban Allure.

[Gaspar]

Ban Allure of Darkness then.

Originally Posted by Slowdoug

In competative Pokemon, most players feel the same way about dragons as arcaos does about darks: they're too overpowered and have the best support. Much like how grass and fire types can't thrive in a dragon infested metagame, attributes like earth or wind become pointless if dark is the only one with good support.

Pretty sure you are confusing EARTH with FIRE.

[Slowdoug]

Originally Posted by Gaspar

Ban Allure of Darkness then.


Pretty sure you are confusing EARTH with FIRE.

Right right, forgot about REDU

Hopefully Konami continues the trend its got going of giving other atributes support in core sets. After Abyss Rising, Wind and Fire will be the only really bad attributes