Substitoad to 3 - Page 6

inebriation · 03-13-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asuma89slicer

In your opinion. In my opinion it allows frogs to be a good fun tier 2 deck instead of being only an engine. I dislike the concept of archetypes being engines. Because all it leads to is complaints by people and potential hits towards an archetype that may be far more severe than if the archetype did something itself.

Now I pose a question for you can you prove to me that banning Ronintoadin and bringing Substitoad to 1 would produce an overpowered deck?

What is Substitoad at 1 and banning Ronintoadin going to do for frogs?
You say it would make frogs tier 2, no it wouldn't. It would be an inconsistent garbled mess.

asuma89slicer · 03-13-2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inebriation

What is Substitoad at 1 and banning Ronintoadin going to do for frogs?
You say it would make frogs tier 2, no it wouldn't. It would be an inconsistent garbled mess.

You say that. I was able to beat both twilight and blackwings in their prime with 2 Substitoad. The thing is frogs used to require some skill to run, which for the meta would make it a garbled mess but for a player who knows the deck that is a whole other story.

inebriation · 03-13-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asuma89slicer

You say that. I was able to beat both twilight and blackwings in their prime with 2 Substitoad. The thing is frogs used to require some skill to run, which for the meta would make it a garbled mess but for a player who knows the deck that is a whole other story.

The thing is: Power Creep.

Frogs haven't gotten anything new. Top decks now would destroy blackwings and twilight from their prime.

Also, please explain how Substitoad would suddenly revive frogs.

asuma89slicer · 03-13-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inebriation

The thing is: Power Creep.

Frogs haven't gotten anything new. Top decks now would destroy blackwings and twilight from their prime.

Also, please explain how Substitoad would suddenly revive frogs.

It would allow you to get the field they need to control the game easier. Would you mind answering my question now? Oh as well the two decks I cited are tier 2 now so with that it would mean my frogs would be tier 2.

H1T5Clixs · 03-13-2012, 04:27 PM

If you ask me bringing back Substitoad makes frogs more of an engine the Ronintoadin does, but w/e deck thinners of this caliber are crazy.

Ronintoadin can exist without being detrimental to the game.

Substitoad would only be used for stupid shenanigans.

inebriation · 03-13-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asuma89slicer

It would allow you to get the field they need to control the game easier. Would you mind answering my question now? Oh as well the two decks I cited are tier 2 now so with that it would mean my frogs would be tier 2.

Okay, all I read here was: "It would allow you to get the field they need to control the game easier." - "If I see Substitoad I get to do OTK shenanigans, trololol good 4 gmestate".

LSswarmer · 03-13-2012, 04:35 PM

Can you just hurry up and get banned?

asuma89slicer · 03-13-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inebriation

Okay, all I read here was: "It would allow you to get the field they need to control the game easier." - "If I see Substitoad I get to do OTK shenanigans, trololol good 4 gmestate".

Incorrect the field you would want would not necessarily lead to OTKs. It would take most likely 2 turns after it is set up. Besides every deck has the potential to OTK but that isn't a complaint people have. Even the big three can OTK but no one complains about the OTK it's the combos the decks use to control the game. If OTKs are an issue then use stuff to stop them from killing you. OTKs are simple to stop as long as you adapt to handle them.

inebriation · 03-13-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asuma89slicer

Incorrect the field you would want would not necessarily lead to OTKs. It would take most likely 2 turns after it is set up. Besides every deck has the potential to OTK but that isn't a complaint people have. Even the big three can OTK but no one complains about the OTK it's the combos the decks use to control the game. If OTKs are an issue then use stuff to stop them from killing you. OTKs are simple to stop as long as you adapt to handle them.

Again, what is the point of what this change is accomplishing. You've literally done nothing but point the finger at Ronintoadin when Substitoad is obviously the problem. You say "herp derp Ronintoadin is broken if Substitoad is unbanned. It's the equivalent of saying "herp derp Ronintoadin is broken if Card of Safe Return is unbanned." But here it seems easy to identify the problem card being CoSR, why can't you seem to see the Substitoad is the problem card not just with it's interactions with Ronintoadin, but with it's interactions with frogs in general.

asuma89slicer · 03-13-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inebriation

Again, what is the point of what this change is accomplishing. You've literally done nothing but point the finger at Ronintoadin when Substitoad is obviously the problem. You say "herp derp Ronintoadin is broken if Substitoad is unbanned. It's the equivalent of saying "herp derp Ronintoadin is broken if Card of Safe Return is unbanned." But here it seems easy to identify the problem card being CoSR, why can't you seem to see the Substitoad is the problem card not just with it's interactions with Ronintoadin, but with it's interactions with frogs in general.

COSR would be the issue because it could be used with a lot of different things. The difference here is we have 2 cards who are centered on one group of cards which is different.

I am sure we all can agree the 2 cards together is a problem. Where as with them separate that story changes. All Substitoad does is thins/sets up a field that the meta would view as mediocre. Where as Ronintoadin alone can provide a powerful xyz engine. You and your side has shown how Ronintoadin can xyz spam but you still haven't shown how the massive deck thinning would lead to victory.

inebriation · 03-13-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asuma89slicer

COSR would be the issue because it could be used with a lot of different things. The difference here is we have 2 cards who are centered on one group of cards which is different.

I am sure we all can agree the 2 cards together is a problem. Where as with them separate that story changes. All Substitoad does is thins/sets up a field that the meta would view as mediocre. Where as Ronintoadin alone can provide a powerful xyz engine. You and your side has shown how Ronintoadin can xyz spam but you still haven't shown how the massive deck thinning would lead to victory.

Ronintoadin can NOT XYZ spam without Substitoad which I clearly explained. Ronintoadin sets up an engine that you have to dedicate 12 slots in your deck to use and REQUIRES seeing Swap Frog to work.

Also, you seem to underestimate the meaning of thinning your deck by 12 cards. It has a way higher impact then you think.

As it is now, Ronintoadin is BALANCED, and has a functional engine. Substitoad on the other hand most DEFINITELY has an inherently broken combo that you haven't thought of (or have) and if he came back to 3 I would laugh my ass off when I discovered it.

asuma89slicer · 03-13-2012, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inebriation

Ronintoadin can NOT XYZ spam without Substitoad which I clearly explained. Ronintoadin sets up an engine that you have to dedicate 12 slots in your deck to use and REQUIRES seeing Swap Frog to work.

Also, you seem to underestimate the meaning of thinning your deck by 12 cards. It has a way higher impact then you think.

As it is now, Ronintoadin is BALANCED, and has a functional engine. Substitoad on the other hand most DEFINITELY has an inherently broken combo that you haven't thought of (or have) and if he came back to 3 I would laugh my ass off when I discovered it.

I want Substitoad at 1 not 3. With Swap Frog you can send a lot of frogs quickly to allow for an effective xyz spam.

inebriation · 03-13-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asuma89slicer

I want Substitoad at 1 not 3. With Swap Frog you can send a lot of frogs quickly to allow for an effective xyz spam.

You can't do it quickly and the thread says :to 3.

Swap Frog also requires you to minus from your hand to set up your graveyard which actually balances itself out. Play the ******* cards before you comment on them you ******.

asuma89slicer · 03-13-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inebriation

You can't do it quickly and the thread says :to 3.

Swap Frog also requires you to minus from your hand to set up your graveyard which actually balances itself out. Play the ******* cards before you comment on them you ******.

First thing don't be disrespectful. The other thing is I didn't make the thread. As well I do play the deck. I'd recommend you not comment again because with your assumptions about me all they do is make you look worse and worse especially when you decide to be disrespectful.