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01-11-2012, 12:40 PM
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#1
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Ballerholic
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,102
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MSSJ Gohan vs. MSSJ Goku
How big is the difference in power between the two? Since we've been discussing this in other threads, I thought it deserved it's own thread. I've always put Gohan around 25-30% stronger than Goku here, at the Cell Games. But maybe that's not enough of a gap between the two, so i'm curious what everyone else thinks.
__________________
And who are you. The proud Lord said
That I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat
That's all the truth I know
In a coat of gold or a coat of red
A lion still has claws
And mine are long and sharp, my Lord
As long and sharp as yours
And so he spoke. And so he spoke.
That Lord of Castamere
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01-11-2012, 12:43 PM
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#2
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Mac Daddy
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,831
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I believe there to be something around a 20% difference between them. Pretty much close to a stomp in terms of power.
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01-11-2012, 12:49 PM
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#3
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,933
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Even with Goku's tremendous skill advantage , you can't beat someone you can't hit and Gohan is just too fast for Gohan to be able to hit him.
Think Tien vs Weighted Goku here. A little bit worse since Goku would also be weaker here as well and not just slower.
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01-11-2012, 12:50 PM
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#4
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Barned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mount Paozu
Posts: 1,517
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I think Gohan could be as much as 1.5x stronger than Son Goku. Though he'd still find a way to lose somehow.
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01-11-2012, 12:55 PM
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#5
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,933
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Dude there is no way Gohan is stronger than Goku. Goku just made that up to make Gohan feel better . Why would he be asking for his daddy unless his daddy was stronger? Makes sense huh?
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01-11-2012, 02:02 PM
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#6
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,565
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35-40% at most IMO, but I average it out to be about 2%.
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01-11-2012, 02:13 PM
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#7
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Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 25
Posts: 1,019
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Unless you pay attention to some of the details, these two look the same, even Goku stronger...which is the mistake I made as a kid watching this fight (Funi's garbage dublines didn't help either)
But Gohan is really much superior in every way. We have Cell who made MSSJ Goku quit against him and was stated to be 'a step or two ahead' (Goku put up a good fight, but Cell was too much) of Goku when he fought him...then Cell watches Gohan power up and he attacks Gohan and Gohan counters and dodges every single one of Cell's attacks...Cell couldn't even land a punch. Cell realizing he can't even hit Gohan increases his speed (which was unseen up until that point) and basically matches Gohan from there on out. Gohan's passivity made Cell look more dominate but Cell's attacks didnt really damage Gohan so they should be roughly equal.
But going back to Goku...... if Cell who was a step or two ahead of Goku, can't even hit Gohan using the level he fought Goku at...there's no way Goku is gonna either..he wont be able to keep up.
I'd put Gohan 130 and Goku 100...I think Goku has a bigger lead on Vegeta than Gohan does Goku, but not by all that much.
Last edited by Victorious : 01-11-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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01-11-2012, 04:06 PM
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#8
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Ballerholic
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,102
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I think 20% or more at a minimum. The fact that Gohan thinks Goku is holding back makes me think the gap is pretty huge. Everyone else thinks Goku's power level is astounding when he powers up, but Gohan is just like, 'what's the big deal'? He clearly thinks Goku's power is nothing compared to his own.
__________________
And who are you. The proud Lord said
That I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat
That's all the truth I know
In a coat of gold or a coat of red
A lion still has claws
And mine are long and sharp, my Lord
As long and sharp as yours
And so he spoke. And so he spoke.
That Lord of Castamere
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01-11-2012, 05:25 PM
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#9
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tienshinhan08
I think 20% or more at a minimum. The fact that Gohan thinks Goku is holding back makes me think the gap is pretty huge. Everyone else thinks Goku's power level is astounding when he powers up, but Gohan is just like, 'what's the big deal'? He clearly thinks Goku's power is nothing compared to his own.
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you look too much into gohans illogical statements... |
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01-11-2012, 05:58 PM
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#10
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Ballerholic
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,102
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It's not illogical if you have an open mind about it. Why would Gohan think Goku's powerup isn't anything special, when everyone else does? Because he's stronger. Why would he think Goku was holding back, when in fact he wasn't? Because Gohan is stronger.
__________________
And who are you. The proud Lord said
That I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat
That's all the truth I know
In a coat of gold or a coat of red
A lion still has claws
And mine are long and sharp, my Lord
As long and sharp as yours
And so he spoke. And so he spoke.
That Lord of Castamere
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01-11-2012, 06:09 PM
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#11
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,565
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I don't think
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01-11-2012, 07:18 PM
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#12
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Flat-Out Stated!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago
Age: 28
Posts: 715
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If the Boo arc never existed, I'd place Gohan around 20-30% stronger than Goku. But since the Boo arc does exist, and screws everything up... I'd have Gohan at least 50% stronger, but no more than twice as strong.
I don't think Gohan used his full Ssj power against Cell anyway.
__________________
"Our bass player had a great idea about getting Jesus and Hitler and a dinosaur playing together, so it would be like a super trio playing some Cream songs. The T. Rex could be the drummer, and Hitler and Jesus could do the guitars and singing... It would be really interesting to see who got the most groupies." - Ville Valo
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01-11-2012, 08:11 PM
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#13
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger of the Wind
If the Boo arc never existed, I'd place Gohan around 20-30% stronger than Goku. But since the Boo arc does exist, and screws everything up... I'd have Gohan at least 50% stronger, but no more than twice as strong.
I don't think Gohan used his full Ssj power against Cell anyway.
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You mean his full power without rage or with? |
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01-11-2012, 08:27 PM
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#14
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Ballerholic
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krueger
You mean his full power without rage or with?
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His full power with rage is SSJ2, dingbat.
__________________
And who are you. The proud Lord said
That I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat
That's all the truth I know
In a coat of gold or a coat of red
A lion still has claws
And mine are long and sharp, my Lord
As long and sharp as yours
And so he spoke. And so he spoke.
That Lord of Castamere
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01-11-2012, 08:28 PM
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#15
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tienshinhan08
His full power with rage is SSJ2, dingbat.
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I wasn't asking for the peanut gallery, fat head. |
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01-11-2012, 08:34 PM
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#16
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tienshinhan08
It's not illogical if you have an open mind about it. Why would Gohan think Goku's powerup isn't anything special, when everyone else does? Because he's stronger. Why would he think Goku was holding back, when in fact he wasn't? Because Gohan is stronger.
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You can't take Gohan's word because he clearly didn't know what he was talking about. He said he thought both Goku and Cell weren't fighting serious yet cell schooled Gohan. Yes Cell was suppressing some of his power but even in his suppressed state he owned Gohan without trying. The fact of the matter is that no one in the entire group say or confirm that Gohan is even stronger than Goku, they only acknowledge that his power is in the same realm as Goku and could be another candidate to face against cell. This 20 to 30% difference that everyone keeps talking about is pure speculation. |
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01-11-2012, 08:40 PM
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#17
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,565
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You clearly have speculation on the mind with your speculative comment.
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01-11-2012, 08:53 PM
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#18
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:B
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 6,522
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I wonder at what point Gohan became so powerful that Goku could no longer keep up with him in the ROSAT (I don't think this is the case).
Either Goku didn't quite go all out against Cell or the gap isn't there; otherwise, Gohan would've known quite well that he was stronger and faster than Goku during their last few weeks of training.
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01-11-2012, 09:03 PM
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#19
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Ballerholic
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdain
You can't take Gohan's word because he clearly didn't know what he was talking about. He said he thought both Goku and Cell weren't fighting serious yet cell schooled Gohan. Yes Cell was suppressing some of his power but even in his suppressed state he owned Gohan without trying. The fact of the matter is that no one in the entire group say or confirm that Gohan is even stronger than Goku, they only acknowledge that his power is in the same realm as Goku and could be another candidate to face against cell. This 20 to 30% difference that everyone keeps talking about is pure speculation.
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You are wrong.
__________________
And who are you. The proud Lord said
That I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat
That's all the truth I know
In a coat of gold or a coat of red
A lion still has claws
And mine are long and sharp, my Lord
As long and sharp as yours
And so he spoke. And so he spoke.
That Lord of Castamere
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01-11-2012, 09:09 PM
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#20
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,565
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Goku was suppressed.
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01-11-2012, 09:31 PM
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#21
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Flat-Out Stated!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago
Age: 28
Posts: 715
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Krueger
You mean his full power without rage or with?
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I don't believe in the rage boost bull****. Gohan's rage boosts were always very brief; never lasting an entire fight.
The way I see it is this:
Ssj2 Vegeta (majin) = Ssj2 Goku (Boo Arc) > Ssj2 Gohan (Cell Game) > Ssj2 Goku (burst) > Ssj2 Vegeta (pre-majin) > Ssj2 Gohan (Boo Arc) > Ssj Goku (Boo Arc) > Ssj Gohan (Cell Game, full power likely unseen) > Ssj Vegeta (Boo Arc) > Ssj Gohan (Cell Game, what he displayed against Cell) > Ssj Gohan (Boo Arc) >= Ssj Goku (Cell Game) >> Ssj Vegeta (Cell Game)
The Boo arc ruins everything.
__________________
"Our bass player had a great idea about getting Jesus and Hitler and a dinosaur playing together, so it would be like a super trio playing some Cream songs. The T. Rex could be the drummer, and Hitler and Jesus could do the guitars and singing... It would be really interesting to see who got the most groupies." - Ville Valo
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01-11-2012, 09:58 PM
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#22
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Ballerholic
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger of the Wind
I don't believe in the rage boost bull****. Gohan's rage boosts were always very brief; never lasting an entire fight.
The way I see it is this:
Ssj2 Vegeta (majin) = Ssj2 Goku (Boo Arc) > Ssj2 Gohan (Cell Game) > Ssj2 Goku (burst) > Ssj2 Vegeta (pre-majin) > Ssj2 Gohan (Boo Arc) > Ssj Goku (Boo Arc) > Ssj Gohan (Cell Game, full power likely unseen) > Ssj Vegeta (Boo Arc) > Ssj Gohan (Cell Game, what he displayed against Cell) > Ssj Gohan (Boo Arc) >= Ssj Goku (Cell Game) >> Ssj Vegeta (Cell Game)
The Boo arc ruins everything.
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What about Piccolo?
__________________
And who are you. The proud Lord said
That I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat
That's all the truth I know
In a coat of gold or a coat of red
A lion still has claws
And mine are long and sharp, my Lord
As long and sharp as yours
And so he spoke. And so he spoke.
That Lord of Castamere
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01-11-2012, 09:59 PM
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#23
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Pojo Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger of the Wind
I don't believe in the rage boost bull****. Gohan's rage boosts were always very brief; never lasting an entire fight.
The way I see it is this:
Ssj2 Vegeta (majin) = Ssj2 Goku (Boo Arc) > Ssj2 Gohan (Cell Game) > Ssj2 Goku (burst) > Ssj2 Vegeta (pre-majin) > Ssj2 Gohan (Boo Arc) > Ssj Goku (Boo Arc) > Ssj Gohan (Cell Game, full power likely unseen) > Ssj Vegeta (Boo Arc) > Ssj Gohan (Cell Game, what he displayed against Cell) > Ssj Gohan (Boo Arc) >= Ssj Goku (Cell Game) >> Ssj Vegeta (Cell Game)
The Boo arc ruins everything.
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It's hard to work with Vegeta (pre-Majin), right? Trying to fit him in between Cell Games Goku and Cell Games Gohan with sizeable gaps on both sides? Or am I misunderstanding something? Because that's why I have such a hard time seeing Vegeta (pre-Majin) below Kid Gohan... |
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01-11-2012, 10:10 PM
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#24
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Flat-Out Stated!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago
Age: 28
Posts: 715
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tienshinhan08
What about Piccolo?
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The Boo arc ruined him too.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Krueger
It's hard to work with Vegeta (pre-Majin), right? Trying to fit him in between Cell Games Goku and Cell Games Gohan with sizeable gaps on both sides? Or am I misunderstanding something? Because that's why I have such a hard time seeing Vegeta (pre-Majin) below Kid Gohan...
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I'll get some quotes in a moment.
Additional Comment:
Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.1-4
Goku: “Gohan, it’s your turn next, but have you trained properly?”
Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily.”
^ That means Vegeta's pre-Majin Ssj2 is only stronger than Gohan's current Ssj2, not stronger than his Cell Game Ssj2.
Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: as Goku and Vegeta fight
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when yo-you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…”
Vegeta: “Yeah…At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”
^ That means Goku's Ssj2 burst against Yakon was stronger than Vegeta's Ssj2 (pre-Majin).
Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight
Goku: “I don’t wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo’s energy…So I’m going to end this quickly, at maximum power.”
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”
^ That means Goku's Ssj2 burst against Yakon was weaker than Ssj2 Gohan (Cell Game).
Ssj2 Goku (full power) > Ssj2 Gohan (Cell Game) > Ssj2 Goku (burst) > Ssj2 Vegeta (pre-Majin)
If Gohan's Ssj2 at the Cell Game was stronger than Vegeta's pre-Majin Ssj2, then Gohan's regular Ssj should've been stronger than Vegeta's regular Ssj as well.
__________________
"Our bass player had a great idea about getting Jesus and Hitler and a dinosaur playing together, so it would be like a super trio playing some Cream songs. The T. Rex could be the drummer, and Hitler and Jesus could do the guitars and singing... It would be really interesting to see who got the most groupies." - Ville Valo
Last edited by Tiger of the Wind : 01-11-2012 at 10:10 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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01-11-2012, 11:27 PM
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#25
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Banned User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Abyss
Posts: 2,944
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30% at the very least.So Gohan would use his wooden bat to smash gokus small g*****.
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