Bringing Balance to the Farce

[Romancer]

Oh snap! A Star Wars reference-parody, yo! +11 with that shizzle nizzle!

This list focuses on hitting:
* Cheap, abusive, and broken FTK/OTK/Solitaire Decks.
* Cheap, abusible, and broken cards and cards that make cheap, abusible, and broken combos.
* Overplayed cards (staples) that end up in virutally every deck and are too good to not run.
* Overpowered cards that make a large portion of the card pool or integral game mechanics too unreliable to play and cripple those decks out of contention.
* Making a more even play field for a variety of decks, and making a much larger portion of the card pool viable.

Newly Forbidden:
Advanced Ritual Art 1 -> 0
Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier 1 -> 0
Chimeratech Fortress Dragon 3 -> 0
Chimeratech Overdragon 3 -> 0
Cold Wave 1 -> 0
Dark Armed Dragon 1 -> 0
Dark Hole 1 -> 0
Demise, King of Armageddon 3 -> 0
Exodia the Forbidden One 1 -> 0
Giant Trunade 1 -> 0
Gladiator Beast Gyzarus 3 -> 0
Judgment Dragon 2 -> 0
Limiter Removal 1 -> 0
Magical Explosion 1 -> 0
Mirror Force 1 -> 0 *
Monster Reborn 1 -> 0
Mystical Space Typhoon 2 -> 0 *
Return from the Different Dimension 1 -> 0
Royal Decree 3 -> 0
Torrential Tribute 1 -> 0 *
Trap Dustshoot 1 -> 0
* See below.

Newly Limited:
Chain Strike 2 -> 1
Dandylion 2 -> 1
Final Countdown 3 -> 1
Gold Sarcophagus 2 -> 1
Honest 2 -> 1
Icarus Attack 3 -> 1
Lonefire Blossom 2 -> 1
Magician of Faith 0 -> 1
Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon 3 -> 1
Rekindling 3 -> 1
Wulf, Lightsworn Beast 3 -> 1
XX-Saber Faultroll 3 -> 1

Nelwy Semi-Limited:
Card Trooper 1 -> 2

No Longer Forbidden/Limited:
Foolish Burial 1 -> 3
Gladiator Beast Bestiari 1 -> 3
Gravity Bind 1 -> 3
Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner 1 -> 3
Magical Stone Excavation 2 -> 3
Mind Crush 1 -> 3
Necro Gardna 1 -> 3
Overload Fusion 1 -> 3
Snipe Hunter 2 -> 3
The Transmigration Prophecy 1 -> 3
Time Seal 1 -> 3

Post September changes have been made. I've passed over Monarchs in this list in favor of a CAC that is assumed to exist alongside of this list.

Toppling the Monarchy
Continuous Trap
Negate the effect(s) of an Effect Monster card that activates when it is Tribute Summoned, and that monster changes to defense position. When a player destroys a monster that was Tribute Summoned by battle, they draw 1 card.

I'm going to wait and see what effect Black Rose Dragon and Naturia Bambooshoot has on the game before adding them to the list (if at all). Black Rose Dragon at 3 would be a solid idea if not for Black Salvo and Debris Dragon. We'll have to see if those cards break it at 3.

Before anyone asks:

* Mirror Force and Torrential Tribute aren't broken/overly abusive at 1 each. But at 1 each, every deck runs them. That is stupid. Most decks run Mirror Force and Torrential Tribute as an overpowered third/fourth copy of BTH and D. Prison/Sakuretsu Armor. Again, that is stupid. Without them, the decks that truly need mass removal to stop monster spam have Needle Ceiling/Radiant Mirror Force or stall walls like Messenger of Peace. They do the job just fine (and ONLY that job). The decks that don't actually need the mass removal get 2 spaces in their decks back to run something that will support their deck, rather than a splashable overpowered answer to absolutely anything monster related.

* Mystical Space Typhoon: There is nothing game breaking about this card being at 1. But, MST ends up in virtually every deck (at the highest maximum allowance), which is stupid. It is especially dumb considering the huge pile of viable alternatives we have, as well as the "perfect" design of MST. No card should ever be perfect in a card game. Perfection is bad card design. There is no excuse for this card to remain in the game. It is an unneccesary easy answer to anything in the backrow that has long been replaced by fair balanced alternatives that do their job exceptionally well (Nobleman of Extermination, Twister, Tornado) or excel only in certain deck types (Chain Whirlwind, Double Cyclone, Xing Zhen Hu). And when all else fails, there is the slower more easily countered MST clone, Dust Tornado, which gives the user a catch-all answer and the opponent a fair chance to respond to it.

[tonman]

First let me say that a card being a staple is not areson for banning. Staples are good for the game in that they even out the playing field giving lower tier decks something that is equal to high tiers. A card being played in every deck (MST) is fine.

My problems with this list.

Newly Forbidden:
Advanced Ritual Art 1 -> 0 - not broken. Forces you to run vanilla monsters and isn't the problem. Cards like Demise and herald are.
Chimeratech Overdragon 3 -> 0 Future Fusion is the real broken monster in this combo. It allows you to dump infinite monsters when comboed with this card.
Mirror Force 1 -> 0 * I read the botom part and Needle Cieling is NOT a replacement for MF and TT. They are great overextension stoppers.
Mystical Space Typhoon 2 -> 0 * Card will never be aproblem. It is 1 for 1 removal. Staple is not a reason for banning.
Torrential Tribute 1 -> 0 * See Mirror Force.


Newly Limited:
Chain Strike 2 -> 1 This card could actually be unlimited. LOL
Final Countdown 3 -> 1 Why to 1? If this is the problem why not ban, even though it is clearly not the problem
Gold Sarcophagus 2 -> 1 Should go to 3 with cards like JD banned.
Icarus Attack 3 -> 1 This card is balanced. What are you talking about?
Rekindling 3 -> 1 Ban please for being extremely broken and having the as many as possible clause.
Wulf, Lightsworn Beast 3 -> 1 Why? ban it or keep it at 3. Noone even uses more than 2 anyways.

Nelwy Semi-Limited:
Card Trooper 1 -> 2 I use to believe this as well. But its milling power and its 1900 point beater floater for a turn merits the limit regardless of Troop dupe.

No Longer Forbidden/Limited:
Gravity Bind 1 -> 3 Is broken by Imperial Custom. To 0


Actually after a second look at the list, it is decent. Needs improvement though.

[Serotonin]

While this list is alright there are somethings I don't like I will mention most later but now I would like to bring up that Gravity Bind at three makes all decks a solitaire deck.

[Romancer]

Originally Posted by Fallen_Asher

While this list is alright there are somethings I don't like I will mention most later but now I would like to bring up that Gravity Bind at three makes all decks a solitaire deck.

I don't get why people hate on Gravity Bind. The card has never done anything in the TCG. It ended up on the list because of some random thing that the OCG did for like 5 seconds, and when Konami hit that thing, they overdid it just to overdo it. Even if it had deserved its limit, Traps have a disproprotional amont of hate. They must contend with removal, negation (Jinzo, Trap Stun), and then Traps have the cheapest Counter Trap negators (Trap Jammer, 7-Tools). But then there's also the issue of Messenger of Peace. MoP has always been a superior stall wall. You can run it in any deck to buy you time until you are ready to fight back. It also blocks the serious threats. Also, it remains at 3, and it does absolutely nothing. I can see Level Limit - Area B as overkill because of the position Shift, but Gravity Bind is just a prevention tool to stop big monsters from having free reign of the field. I especially like the idea of getting Gravity Bind back, because it stops things like the big bad Watt direct attackers (Giraffe and Chimera), and it punishes decks that don't even try to balance out their monster line-up (all LV 4 and up beaters, with a few junk micro monsters that help make big monsters - bleh!).

It's hard to argue that stall cards like G. Bind allow burn or stall strategies to be abused because it simply isn't true. I've played stall decks (burn and mill variants). Those decks are all about the 1:1 chainables (Threatening Roar, Waboku, Thunder of Ruler, Frozen Soul, Book of Eclipse, Battle Fader), and any of the dozen monsters that can't be destroyed by battle or that put up ridiculous walls like Penguin Soldier and Jujitsu Master. Continuous S/Ts are wayy too unstable to base an entire deck strategy around. The 1:1s are going to go off in all circumstances outside of a Dark Bribe or end phase DT/MST.

[Serotonin]

It has nothing to do with any certain style of deck. Cards that are hard stall cards like this being at high numbers has an effect on the length of tourniments and matchs. Being able to stall into time with a burn deck is pretty much an Auto win for burn. But the real problem is just the stall part. There cards hold up rounds and drag on tourniments. That is the reason they are limited. Konami doesn't like the idea of people being able to control games going to time and I have to say I don't really either.

[Near]

Banning "staples" or otherwise popular cards because they're popular and not themed is ridiculously stupid. It's just the sort of card game Yugioh is. Instead of banning every punishing and intelligent card out there, just play Magic.

[FAD!]

Originally Posted by Romancer

Newly Forbidden:
Dark Hole 1 -> 0 *
Exodia the Forbidden One 1 -> 0
Giant Trunade 1 -> 0 *
Mirror Force 1 -> 0 *
Monster Reborn 1 -> 0 *
Mystical Space Typhoon 2 -> 0 *
Torrential Tribute 1 -> 0 *

Newly Limited:
Chain Strike 2 -> 1
Magician of Faith 0 -> 1

Nelwy Semi-Limited:
Card Trooper 1 -> 2

No Longer Forbidden/Limited:
Foolish Burial 1 -> 3

Care for an explanation?

*Staples are fine where they are.Being available for every deck is exactly why they don't need to go.

May the Force be with you.

[Purple Kuriboh]

Sems alright, but I have two question:

why is advance ritual art banned when demise is banned as well?

why Card Trooper to 2?

[The Crowing]

I've always had a problem with the "ban all staples" logic. If you ban all the staples and leave us with their ******ed second cousins. Wouldnt their ******ed second cousins becomes the "new staples" and under your own logic become banworthy? I mean in your post you mention horrible situational crap like Needle Ceiling, Radiant Mirror Force, Twister, Double Cyclone, Dust Tornado etc. Well what happens when THOSE cards are mindlessly thrown in every deck?

[Serpent Night Dragon]

Even with that trap I'd still want Caius and Raiza at 0.

[Serotonin]

Originally Posted by The Crowing

I've always had a problem with the "ban all staples" logic. If you ban all the staples and leave us with their ******ed second cousins. Wouldnt their ******ed second cousins becomes the "new staples" and under your own logic become banworthy? I mean in your post you mention horrible situational crap like Needle Ceiling, Radiant Mirror Force, Twister, Double Cyclone, Dust Tornado etc. Well what happens when THOSE cards are mindlessly thrown in every deck?

This. Cards always get replaced. People who want those effects in there decks will either use a deck that has access (IE blackwings to replace Storm) or use the best replacement possible (IE people talking about playing Malcat in place of storm). There will always be staples, you don't have to play them if you don't like them.

[HochDeutsch]

This is actually a pretty good list. Although I'm surprised at no monarch bans, mainly because you're the one, Romancer, who convinced me that some monarchs deserve a spot on the list. I don't think the Trap is a good substitute - it would just become a card side-decked in every deck... and it pretty much only stops the monarchs (and Swift Birdman Joe and Armoroid).

I also don't like Mind Crush to 3, especially since you didn't do anything about Pot of Duality. Similarly, Demise to 0 is uncalled for with ARA to 1. Allowing Demise at 1 gives all Ritual decks a legitimate boost (in the same way that leaving Honest at 1 gives LIGHT decks a boost), and they need it - even now, with the new support (except Herald, which could probably use some kind of hit on this list anyway and which can't use Demise).

Frankly, though, I'd be so much happier with this list than the current list that it's staggering. You've made pretty much all of the standard good calls, and some that aren't standard but in my opinion should be (Honest -> 1, for example).

The principle flaw in this list is Gravity Bind to 3, however. With that change, and with Storm and MST banned, there will be a wholesale Shift towards Level 3 or lower monsters and / or Jinzo. Bad.

[StriderBlack01]

Originally Posted by The Crowing

I've always had a problem with the "ban all staples" logic. If you ban all the staples and leave us with their ******ed second cousins. Wouldnt their ******ed second cousins becomes the "new staples" and under your own logic become banworthy? I mean in your post you mention horrible situational crap like Needle Ceiling, Radiant Mirror Force, Twister, Double Cyclone, Dust Tornado etc. Well what happens when THOSE cards are mindlessly thrown in every deck?

The cool thing about Romancer is that he's one of the few people that truly understands how truly warped the game is, and has a proper vision of what the game could be.

Whereas most posters/lists here are, in all truth, satisfied with the current gamestate (barring 3-5 cards), all of his lists reflect that basic understanding.

This is a good list.
Though, as always, I disagree with its stance on a few cards, like MST.
----

I also think that it'd be kinda tough to mindlessly run Needle Ceiling, Radiant Mirror Force, and Twister and have them be nearly as effective as their counterparts...

[461126]

Herald format.

Also what is the difference btwn your CAC and Mask of Restrict?

[HochDeutsch]

Originally Posted by 461126

Herald format.

Also what is the difference btwn your CAC and Mask of Restrict?

Basically nothing, although you can chain it to the Monarch's summon and negate its effect, which I don't think Mask of Restrict can do.

[Serotonin]

Needle Ceiling is extremely good against some of the proceived top decks in the next format it is too bad most players don't have the jewels to try something new.

[Chaos3600]

Seems like a very busted format.

[Purple Kuriboh]

Originally Posted by Fallen_Asher

Needle Ceiling is extremely good against some of the proceived top decks in the next format it is too bad most players don't have the jewels to try something new.

Thanks for the idea, I might just try sided it.

[PlanetCrack]

Originally Posted by Fallen_Asher

Needle Ceiling is extremely good against some of the proceived top decks in the next format it is too bad most players don't have the jewels to try something new.

They don't want to run something that could be dead 50% [that's a generous number too] of the time...