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Old 03-07-2010, 08:42 PM   #1
The Real Mars
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Default Koaki Meiru Contact Fusion?! O_O

1) Koaki Meiru War Arms Special Summons A Level 3 Or Lower Warrior Type Monster (From The Graveyard) And Equips It To Himself. (He Also Gains Half Of The Equipped Monster's Attack But That Is Irrelevant.)

2) Say Neo-Spacian Aqua Dolphin Is Special Summoned This Way And Equipped To KM War Arms. He Is Placed On The Spell/Trap Card Zone.

3) KM War Arms Does NOT Say That The Equipped Monster Is Treated As An Equip Spell Card Even Though This Is Usually The Case.

4) On Elemental Hero Aqua Neos, It Says "This Card Can Only Be Special Summoned By Returning The Above Cards From Your Side Of The Field To The Deck." The Cards Required Are "Elemental Hero Neos" and "Neo-Spacian Aqua Dolphin". No Where Does It Say That The Cards Must Be Monsters.

5) Can Neo Spacian Aqua Dolphin Be Returned To The Deck (Along With "E-Hero Neos") For The Contact Fusion For E-hero Aqua Neos, Even Though Neo-Spacian Aqua Dolphin Is In The Spell/Trap Card Zone?

6) For More Information, Click The Following Links --->

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Koa%27ki_Meiru_War_Arms

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Neo-Spacian_Aqua_Dolphin

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Elemental_Hero_Aqua_Neos

7) My Bet Is "No" But I Just Wanted To Make Sure.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:48 PM   #2
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3) KM War Arms Does NOT Say That The Equipped Monster Is Treated As An Equip Spell Card Even Though This Is Usually The Case.
Incorrect by saying "usually", as it is always the case when a monster is equipped to another one.

And a Spell Card cannot be a Fusion Material monster.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift71388 View Post
Incorrect by saying "usually", as it is always the case when a monster is equipped to another one.

And a Spell Card cannot be a Fusion Material monster.
Quote:
This card can only be Special Summoned from your Extra Deck by returning the above cards from your side of the field to the Deck. (You do not use "Polymerization".)
You can do that.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:55 PM   #4
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Default Contact = Not Fusion

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Originally Posted by redshift71388 View Post
Incorrect by saying "usually", as it is always the case when a monster is equipped to another one.

And a Spell Card cannot be a Fusion Material monster.
Well, it's no question that it is treated as an equip card (even though it does not say).

Who ever mentioned "fusion" summoning? E-hero Aqua Neos is "special summoned" from the extra deck by return the right cards from the field to the deck. The cards are not treated as fusion material monsters. The summoning of E-hero Aqua Neos is not a fusion summon, even though the card itself is a fusion, it counts as a special summon from the extra/fusion deck.

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Originally Posted by Reapex View Post
You can do that.
Thanks For Posting

I'll take your word for it.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:56 PM   #5
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What the hell kind of situation would have that occur though... O.o
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:58 PM   #6
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Default You Got Me :/

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What the hell kind of situation would have that occur though... O.o
I don't know, but I do have all of the cards for it
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:01 PM   #7
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While speaking purely based on text, you should be able to return one of the cards for a Neos Fusion to the deck regardless of whether or not it is a monster, I also think that there would be a specific ruling stating that this could be done if it were the case.

The Neos Fusions don't have the ruling that Chimeratech Fortress Dragon does.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:05 PM   #8
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Default Interesting O_O

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Originally Posted by Elliot Gale View Post
While speaking purely based on text, you should be able to return one of the cards for a Neos Fusion to the deck regardless of whether or not it is a monster, I also think that there would be a specific ruling stating that this could be done if it were the case.

The Neos Fusions don't have the ruling that Chimeratech Fortress Dragon does.
while I know not know of any such specific ruling, according to the card text...it should be possible. i am not familiar with chimera tech fortress dragon as I do not run him.

thanks for your post!
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Gale View Post
While speaking purely based on text, you should be able to return one of the cards for a Neos Fusion to the deck regardless of whether or not it is a monster, I also think that there would be a specific ruling stating that this could be done if it were the case.

The Neos Fusions don't have the ruling that Chimeratech Fortress Dragon does.
There is an OCG ruling under XYZ Dragon Cannon explaining that if you control X and Y, and Z is equipped to X, you can Remove all 3 from Play to Summon the Fusion. This should be the same.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:17 PM   #10
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Default Yes!!! Xddd

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Originally Posted by ness00 View Post
There is an OCG ruling under XYZ Dragon Cannon explaining that if you control X and Y, and Z is equipped to X, you can Remove all 3 from Play to Summon the Fusion. This should be the same.
Thanks So Much! You Finally Gave My Theory A Backbone! XD

Thanks For Your Post!
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:18 PM   #11
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Well, it's no question that it is treated as an equip card (even though it does not say).

Who ever mentioned "fusion" summoning? E-hero Aqua Neos is "special summoned" from the extra deck by return the right cards from the field to the deck. The cards are not treated as fusion material monsters. The summoning of E-hero Aqua Neos is not a fusion summon, even though the card itself is a fusion, it counts as a special summon from the extra/fusion deck.
I didn't mention Fusion Summoning either. I said Fusion Material monster. Monsters like "XYZ-Dragon Cannon", Gladiator Beast Fusions and Neos Fusions still have Fusion Material monsters even though they are not Fusion Summoned.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:51 AM   #12
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Default Spells As A Fusion Material Monster?! O_O

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Originally Posted by redshift71388 View Post
I didn't mention Fusion Summoning either. I said Fusion Material monster. Monsters like "XYZ-Dragon Cannon", Gladiator Beast Fusions and Neos Fusions still have Fusion Material monsters even though they are not Fusion Summoned.
the card (E-hero Aqua Neos) only says you must return the "cards" you control from the field to the deck. It doesn't even say YOUR deck. So if you take control of your opponent's monster and it just so happens to be the right card, you could return your Neos, per say, to your deck and his monster, grandmole for example, to his deck and still get the fusion guy (E-hero Grand Neos) out of the extra deck.

if this is true, then all that is needed from the special summon monster from the extra deck are the "cards" listed as "fusion material monsters" (although we know this has nothing to do with fusion summoning). it does not say that the "cards" listed as fusion material monsters must be "monsters". further more, i want to see the ruling that says a spell or trap card cannot be a fusion material monster.

as to whether or not the returned cards are treated as fusion material monsters, i do not know.
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:00 PM   #13
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Default

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Originally Posted by The Real Mars View Post
if this is true, then all that is needed from the special summon monster from the extra deck are the "cards" listed as "fusion material monsters" (although we know this has nothing to do with fusion summoning). it does not say that the "cards" listed as fusion material monsters must be "monsters". further more, i want to see the ruling that says a spell or trap card cannot be a fusion material monster.
The OCG just refers to them as "Fusion Materials", with "monsters" added where necessary.
Quote:
as to whether or not the returned cards are treated as fusion material monsters, i do not know.
The monsters used to Summon "Chimeratech Fortress Dragon" are treated as Fusion Materials, so the cards used to Summon the "Neos" fusions should be treated as Fusion Materials.

Also, "Prohibition" vs "Gladiator Beast Gyzarus".
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:31 PM   #14
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the card (E-hero Aqua Neos) only says you must return the "cards" you control from the field to the deck. It doesn't even say YOUR deck. So if you take control of your opponent's monster and it just so happens to be the right card, you could return your Neos, per say, to your deck and his monster, grandmole for example, to his deck and still get the fusion guy (E-hero Grand Neos) out of the extra deck.
I'm not disputing this at all. I was wrong in my first post according to the OCG rulings (though it's a ruling I wouldn't agree with if it were up to me). I'm merely defending the fact that I never said these types of Special Summons were Fusion Summons, which you implied I did.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:21 PM   #15
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Default Cards Vs Monsters >_>

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Originally Posted by redshift71388 View Post
I'm not disputing this at all. I was wrong in my first post according to the OCG rulings (though it's a ruling I wouldn't agree with if it were up to me). I'm merely defending the fact that I never said these types of Special Summons were Fusion Summons, which you implied I did.
this topic is quite confusing. hmm, fusion material monsters huh? i'll leave it up to the rule book to decided if they are or aren't. such matters are not important to me.

as for your "spell cards cannot be fusion material monsters", i want to see proof of that if any exists.

and if it turns out that contact fusion CAN be conducted in such a way, then it would be more accurate to call them "fusion material cards" <_<
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:25 PM   #16
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A Spell Card is not a Monster, that is for sure. However, the Fusion Materials here can be any type of Card.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:25 PM   #17
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this topic is quite confusing. hmm, fusion material monsters huh? i'll leave it up to the rule book to decided if they are or aren't. such matters are not important to me.

as for your "spell cards cannot be fusion material monsters", i want to see proof of that if any exists.

and if it turns out that contact fusion CAN be conducted in such a way, then it would be more accurate to call them "fusion material cards" <_<
1. What else would they be? Monsters listed in the first line of any Fusion Monster's text are called Fusion Material monsters, no exceptions.

2. Did you not read my last post? I said I was wrong about not able to use Fusion Material monster being treated as Spell Cards for "contact"-like Special Summons. Why would I bother presenting you any proof?
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:17 PM   #18
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Default The Climax!!! O_o

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Originally Posted by redshift71388 View Post
1. What else would they be? Monsters listed in the first line of any Fusion Monster's text are called Fusion Material monsters, no exceptions.

2. Did you not read my last post? I said I was wrong about not able to use Fusion Material monster being treated as Spell Cards for "contact"-like Special Summons. Why would I bother presenting you any proof?
1. I'd rather call them fusion material cards in this case.

2. Maybe because such proof doesn't exist?
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:43 PM   #19
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2. Maybe because such proof doesn't exist?
Exactly. What I've been telling you for the last two posts.
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:18 PM   #20
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Default It's settled then.

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Exactly. What I've been telling you for the last two posts.
So we both agree that no ruling states that Contact Fusion cannot occur with Spell or Trap cards, so my theory was correct after all. splendid.

(i still wouldn't run Wild Arms in my Neo-Spacian Deck, however. it's only target would be Aqua Dolphin and it would fail.)
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:53 PM   #21
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Yes, that was settled a week ago.. Not sure why you keep bringing this up again.
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Old 03-12-2010, 06:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by redshift71388 View Post
Incorrect by saying "usually", as it is always the case when a monster is equipped to another one.

And a Spell Card cannot be a Fusion Material monster.
well, Yugi disagrees with Living Arrow (did this card have a definite effect in the Anime like ever???) + Mamooth Graveyard...

also im still confused as to everything in this thread, wants definite answer...
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:10 PM   #23
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also im still confused as to everything in this thread, wants definite answer...
Well, apparently, there's a ruling in the OCG saying that when you Special Summon a Fusion Monster from the Extra Deck that does not need to/cannot be Fusion Summoned, such as "Elemental Hero Air Neos", "Gladiator Beast Gyzarus", "Armityle the Chaos Phantom" and "XYZ-Dragon Cannon", you can still do so if any of the Fusion Material monsters are currently being treated as Spell Cards, such as by Union equipment or the effect of "Relinquished", etc.

This is similar to how a "Dark Magic Attack" can be activated if you have your opponent's "Dark Magician" equipped to your "Relinquished" as a Spell Card.

However, when performing an actual Fusion Summon (using "Polymerization", "Dragon's Mirror", etc.), the Fusion Material monsters still need to be monsters.
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by guidolheat View Post
well, Yugi disagrees with Living Arrow (did this card have a definite effect in the Anime like ever???) + Mamooth Graveyard...

also im still confused as to everything in this thread, wants definite answer...
You can use an equipped Neo-Spacian Monster to Special Summon a Neos Fusion.
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:14 AM   #25
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Default Oh boy...

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Yes, that was settled a week ago.. Not sure why you keep bringing this up again.
"And a Spell Card cannot be a Fusion Material monster."

you're the one who's making bold statements without any proof, don't blame me.

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well, Yugi disagrees with Living Arrow (did this card have a definite effect in the Anime like ever???) + Mamooth Graveyard...

also im still confused as to everything in this thread, wants definite answer...
this thread confuses me too
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