The Frog Guide and Discussion Thread IV

[Great Demon Lord]

I know that problem my rides car is in the shop.

[Frognarchs22]

Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol

Sure!

The thread link is here: http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=759208

And here's the copy-paste:

Monsters: 22
2x Debris Dragon
1x Sangan
3x Swap Frog
2x Lonefire Blossom
3x Flip Flop Frog
2x Unifrog
1x Dandylion
3x Dupe Frog
3x Substitoad
1x Fishborg Blaster
1x Treeborn Frog

Spells: 9
1x Heavy Storm
1x Level Limit - Area B
1x One for One
3x Pot of Avarice
2x Salvage
1x Scapegoat

Traps: 9
3x Aegis of the Ocean Dragon Lord
2x Bottomless Trap Hole
2x Divine Wrath
2x Robbin' Gobliln

Side deck: 15
2x Trap Eater
2x Junk Synchron
1x Giant Trunade
1x Mystical Space Typhoon
2x Grave of the Super Ancient Organism
3x Light Imprisoning Mirror
3x Mirror of Oaths
1x Torrential Tribute

Extra Deck - 15
1x Armory Arm
1x Junk Warrior
1x Ally of Justice Catastor
1x Magical Android
1x Goyo Guardian
1x Iron Chain Dragon
1x Ancient Fairy Dragon
1x Black Rose Dragon
1x Power Tool Dragon
1x X-Saber Urbellum
1x Colossal Fighter
1x Red Dragon Archfiend
2x Stardust Dragon
1x Thought Ruler Archfiend

Considering dropping Fishborg for a third Debris, or for a Giant Trunade. I'm gonna give it another week though, I'm coming back from my long hiatus to play next Saturday (I has a car!!! ) so I can test this build as it is now, outside of casual play.

Three flip flop frogs is a bit much imo. Also whats up with the trap eaters in the side deck?

[russgenious]

@ Lonely Tylenol : i'll reverse the t-roar and aegis numbers... t-roar has been working fairly well so far and requires less commitment to the field - i'll take it out if i find it unnessary.

2nd pot sounds good - i'll need to get my hands on another. btw i saw ur trade thread... do u still do online trading? i need a ton of commons and eBay shipping costs more than the card i buy. xD

[sorryimvegan]

Originally Posted by Frognarchs22

Three flip flop frogs is a bit much imo. Also whats up with the trap eaters in the side deck?

The ratio of Flip Flop Frogs are based on preferences.

Trap Eater deals with Skill Drain and Royal Oppression. It's a level 4 tuner so Goyo can be made.

[Inmato]

Originally Posted by sorryimvegan

Trap Eater deals with Skill Drain and Royal Oppression.

I despise Skill Drain. Thus, I too side Trap Eater.

[Enraged_Aura]

So I made a mistake with a ruling and I have no idea how I'm supposed to summon EHAZ in a solidarity/wetlands build....I'm not going to purchase any high end destiny hero cards, so please do not suggest that. I feel bad because I bought the stupid manga and then realized I had no way of summoning it, at least not how I thought I could. Any suggestions on how to make it work?

If it helps, I was thinking about building a side to make the deck go from solidarity/wetlands to a Junk/Wetlands...

Additional Comment:

I mean, I'd have to get a Miracle Fusion and at least 1 E-hero card in the deck....but just to get out 1 card? Would I use multiple of the MF and E-Hero???
I only have 1 EHAZ...seems like a waste.

[sorryimvegan]

Originally Posted by Enraged_Aura

So I made a mistake with a ruling and I have no idea how I'm supposed to summon EHAZ in a solidarity/wetlands build....I'm not going to purchase any high end destiny hero cards, so please do not suggest that. I feel bad because I bought the stupid manga and then realized I had no way of summoning it, at least not how I thought I could. Any suggestions on how to make it work?

If it helps, I was thinking about building a side to make the deck go from solidarity/wetlands to a Junk/Wetlands...

Additional Comment:

I mean, I'd have to get a Miracle Fusion and at least 1 E-hero card in the deck....but just to get out 1 card? Would I use multiple of the MF and E-Hero???
I only have 1 EHAZ...seems like a waste.

I agree.

Using EHAZ means you have to compromise to both the Frog and E-Hero/D-Hero end, which is hard enough as it is.

I guess you can use Stratos + E-Heroes and Hero's mask.

It's not hard to side into different Frog Builds imo.

[Enraged_Aura]

I think the issue is that of having enough room...for what I was going to use, I had room for (like 3 cards). But now I'd have to find room for 4+ cards...which would still inevitably ruin the option of running solidarity. I really wish one of the Elemental Heros was Aqua type...doesn't seem like too much to ask given that 2 are pyro already...(and 2 plant, and 1 Thunder).

[sorryimvegan]

Originally Posted by Enraged_Aura

I think the issue is that of having enough room...for what I was going to use, I had room for (like 3 cards). But now I'd have to find room for 4+ cards...which would still inevitably ruin the option of running solidarity. I really wish one of the Elemental Heros was Aqua type...doesn't seem like too much to ask given that 2 are pyro already...(and 2 plant, and 1 Thunder).

You can always use Bubbleman or Ocean with Salvage instead. :/

Welcome to the major problem of frogs! There's just too much good tech and not enough room.

[Heart]

I'd gladly help with your deck. Mind posting it up or posting up a link?

[anblader001]

Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol

Torrential Tribute is limited, Threatening Roar is overrated in Frogs. Drop one of each for Divine Wraths.

I beg to differ.

T-Roar is a stand-alone card that can help save you from an otk. If it lets you use flip flop frog or substitoad one more time, then it has paid itself off. With cards like Brionac, Caius, Chaos Sorc, and etc. that aegis won't always protect you. That and you need a frog on the field, which is not a hard condition to fill, but you won't always be able to fill it. Aegis is a fine card, don't get me wrong, but T-roar isn't as bad as you think. The main reason I run 3-2 ratio of T-roars to Aegis is because I base my deck more off of flip flop frog getting his activations. Aegis can protect him, but its more beneficial to let him flip on my turn than my opponent's (since my opponent will probably just set monster mainphase 2).

Its not as overated as you think.

[Enraged_Aura]

Treeborn Frog
Swap Frog x 3
Substitoad x 3
Des Frog x 3
Dupe Frog x 2
Submarine Frog x 3
Flip Flop Frog x 2


Solidarity x 2
Wetlands x 3
Super Polymerization
Salvage
Moray of Greed x 2
Pot of Avarice
Scapegoat

Aegis of the Ocean Dragon Lord x 3
Gravity Bind



D.3.S Frog x 3

I'm still missing 8 cards, mainly staple cards, and I'm still trying to figure out the line-up of frogs (probably need some TADPOLE).

[searchingduelist]

if you want to save space the max number of tadpoles you need is 2, and maybe unifrog. It serves as m/t destruction and if everything gets locked up you can poke your way to victory with him. I usually run 2

[Lonely Tylenol]

Originally Posted by russgenious

@ Lonely Tylenol : i'll reverse the t-roar and aegis numbers... t-roar has been working fairly well so far and requires less commitment to the field - i'll take it out if i find it unnessary.

Fair enough. I realize that Dark Dust Spirit defeats the point of Aegis protection if you draw into him, so there's gotta be a balance there. I just don't like Roar in Frogs, because it seems like a secondary if you're relying on Frogs for anything more than an engine.

2nd pot sounds good - i'll need to get my hands on another. btw i saw ur trade thread... do u still do online trading? i need a ton of commons and eBay shipping costs more than the card i buy. xD

Yes. I haven't been keeping up with the trade thread, but I have three or four shoeboxes full of commons, as well as a binder literally stuffed with crap rares and what-have-you. I even have a few money cards (Lyla, ult Black Rose, Mezukis, etc). Just let me know what you're looking for. If you want to make it a full trade though, we're doing this iTrader ref-style. I won't bother with the hassle if it's, like, $2-3 worth in cards though, you can take something that trivial for free.

Originally Posted by sorryimvegan

The ratio of Flip Flop Frogs are based on preferences.

Trap Eater deals with Skill Drain and Royal Oppression. It's a level 4 tuner so Goyo can be made.

This. Oppression Monarchs, Skill Drain Plants, Little City... The only components of these decks that I can legitimately say I hate (Skill Drain/Oppression) are both dealt with handily by Trap Eater.

Originally Posted by anblader001

I beg to differ.

T-Roar is a stand-alone card that can help save you from an otk. If it lets you use flip flop frog or substitoad one more time, then it has paid itself off. With cards like Brionac, Caius, Chaos Sorc, and etc. that aegis won't always protect you. That and you need a frog on the field, which is not a hard condition to fill, but you won't always be able to fill it. Aegis is a fine card, don't get me wrong, but T-roar isn't as bad as you think. The main reason I run 3-2 ratio of T-roars to Aegis is because I base my deck more off of flip flop frog getting his activations. Aegis can protect him, but its more beneficial to let him flip on my turn than my opponent's (since my opponent will probably just set monster mainphase 2).

Its not as overated as you think.

Yes, but considering the sheer number of other cards that can do for you in the Battle Phase what you get Threatening Roar to do, it just becomes redundant.

So maybe I should elaborate: I think Threatening Roar's overrated in Frogs, not because Threatening Roar's a bad card (it's a staple for a reason), but just because it's a bad match for most Frog builds.

In the situation where Flip gets rammed on your opponent's turn and your opponent sets Main Phase 2, you can still activate Flip Flop Frog on your own turn by flipping it into face-down Defense Position, and then Flip Summoning it. The only difference is you also bounced your opponent's monster(s) during the Battle Phase, as well.

Originally Posted by Enraged_Aura

I'm still missing 8 cards, mainly staple cards, and I'm still trying to figure out the line-up of frogs (probably need some TADPOLE).

Put two T.A.D.P.O.L.E.S. and one Unifrog in to round out your Frog lineup. I would advise 3 and 2, and take out the Submarine Frogs, but you're going for beatstick love, aren't you? (The Solidarities give it away.)

Needs more Bottomless Trap Holes, and Salvages. If you're down 8, and you get two T.A.D.s and one Unifrog, you can round out your deck list with two Bottomlesses, two Salvages and one Pot of Avarice. Bam!

......Waitwaitwait. Needs Heavy/Trunade/MST! Take out a Pot and Gravity Bind (or the two Morays...) for Heavy and Trunade!

[Heart]

That is the longest post ever. :O

[seekeroftruth17]

Subbed!!!


Here is my version of frogs, it play tests pretty amazing:

monsters 21:

beezle frog
2 dupe frog
3 swap frog
3 substitoad
3 poison draw frog
3 t.a.d.p.o.l.e.
3 des frog
3 witch doctor of sparta

spells 21:

mst
storm
trunade
one for one
double summon
2 pot of benevolence
2 salvage
2 des croaking
3 pot of avarice
3 moray of greed

traps 3:

3 aegis of the ocean dragon lord

[Heart]

- 1 Double Summon
+ 1 One for One

Poison Draw Frog is.. how do I say this.. a bad card more often than not. You could run him, but with Substitoad's effect, it misses the timing when tributed. So missing timing = no drawing.

- 3 Poison Draw Frog
+ 1 Dupe Frog
+ 2 Flip Flop Frog

[Lonely Tylenol]

Originally Posted by Heart

That is the longest post ever. :O

That's about as fifth as long as the longest post I've ever made in this thread. I've broken the character limit before. Don't try me!

Originally Posted by seekeroftruth17

Subbed!!!


Here is my version of frogs, it play tests pretty amazing:

monsters 21:

beezle frog
2 dupe frog
3 swap frog
3 substitoad
3 poison draw frog
3 t.a.d.p.o.l.e.
3 des frog
3 witch doctor of sparta

spells 21 (actually 17):

mst
storm
trunade
one for one
double summon
2 pot of benevolence
2 salvage
2 des croaking
3 pot of avarice
3 moray of greed

traps 3:

3 aegis of the ocean dragon lord

Good start! I take it this is a Spartaburn OTK/FTK deck?

A few things to note:

-Poison Draw Frog misses the timing when Tributed. If you Tribute him for Substitoad's effect, the last thing that will happen is the Special Summon of the other monster, so you don't get your draw. Also, because of the parenthetical, you can't Set him and let him get destroyed by battle for your draw. That's right, this card is LITERALLY worthless! My advice would be to swap them (all of them) for Flip Flop Frogs and Unifrogs (2:1) so you have something to fall back on when you don't have the Sparta burn set up.

Dupe's also a necessity at three, since he tutors when he's sent to the Graveyard (this also misses the timing, but if he's destroyed any other way, you're gold). Swap the numbers on Dupe and T.A.D.P.O.L.E.

For a Sparta Burn OTK/FTK deck, I'd suggest placing a heavier reliance on Frogs, and remove the T.A.D.P.O.L.E.s entirely and focus more on the OTK/FTK. But that's up to you.

Originally Posted by Heart

- 1 Double Summon
+ 1 One for One

Poison Draw Frog is.. how do I say this.. a bad card more often than not. You could run him, but with Substitoad's effect, it misses the timing when tributed. So missing timing = no drawing.

- 3 Poison Draw Frog
+ 1 Dupe Frog
+ 2 Flip Flop Frog

He has One for One already, and it's Limited, so he can't run more.

Dandylion could fill that spot though... But ideally, if he's going the Sparta burn route, he'd take out a T.A.D. instead.

[anblader001]

Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol

Yes, but considering the sheer number of other cards that can do for you in the Battle Phase what you get Threatening Roar to do, it just becomes redundant.

So maybe I should elaborate: I think Threatening Roar's overrated in Frogs, not because Threatening Roar's a bad card (it's a staple for a reason), but just because it's a bad match for most Frog builds.

In the situation where Flip gets rammed on your opponent's turn and your opponent sets Main Phase 2, you can still activate Flip Flop Frog on your own turn by flipping it into face-down Defense Position, and then Flip Summoning it. The only difference is you also bounced your opponent's monster(s) during the Battle Phase, as well.

Sheer number? Frog locks, Aegis, and mirror force are the only other reliable stall options for frogs, as the continuous s/t stall almost always gets wiped out.

And players always seem to get around the frog lock as well (cauis, econ, brain, book, mind control, trago, brionac, vortex, torrential, etc), so the only real reliable protection options that frogs have are mirror force, aegis, and t-roar. T-roar fills up the gaps were aegis falls, though aegis can be alot better in alot of situations. Its just soo many people use rfp, spin, and bounce removal over regular destruction so I tend to find T-roar more useful.

On your third point: wouldn't my flip flop frog be stuck in attack mode when I end my turn though?

[seekeroftruth17]

Yeah ok so this deck is bad yugioz. I had no idea draw frog missed the timing. Yeah flip frog and uni it is then.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Originally Posted by anblader001

Sheer number? Frog locks, Aegis, and mirror force are the only other reliable stall options for frogs, as the continuous s/t stall almost always gets wiped out.

I count the continuous S/T stall. If your opponent has to expend resources to get rid of it it's worth mentioning.

I don't count Mirror Force because I don't use it for the same reason I don't use Threatening Roar (also the card's more expensive than anything else I own that's Yu-Gi-Oh related, with the possible exception of Mezukis next format if the banlist doesn't hit Zombies).

The Frog lock should be the top priority for any Wetlands player when setting up the field, as it protects your investments in the future.

And players always seem to get around the frog lock as well (cauis, econ, brain, book, mind control, trago, brionac, vortex, torrential, etc), so the only real reliable protection options that frogs have are mirror force, aegis, and t-roar. T-roar fills up the gaps were aegis falls, though aegis can be alot better in alot of situations. Its just soo many people use rfp, spin, and bounce removal over regular destruction so I tend to find T-roar more useful.

For all of those problems, I'd rather run Divine Wrath over Threatening Roar, and I definitely don't have the space for both. If it really came down to it, though, I'd even run Waboku over Threatening Roar, but that's because I like letting my opponent ram Flip Flop Frog if it comes down to it.

Ideally you don't have locks that aren't defended. The game setup doesn't begin and end with a Dupe/Sub lock: Just as well as any capable player could break this lock from the opposite side of the table, any capable player piloting Frogs should have insurance, either in the form of something to prevent that lock break (Solemn/Divine Wrath/etc), or something in hand to set up again next turn if the lock break succeeds. When it comes down to that, I'd rather have a Frog lock and a set Divine Wrath or Solemn Judgment than a Frog lock and a set Threatening Roar, because unless my opponent successfully breaks the lock and then makes a game-changing Life Point swing as a consequence of that break, the Threatening Roar is going to sit there, unused and essentially dead.

On your third point: wouldn't my flip flop frog be stuck in attack mode when I end my turn though?

Yes, but this isn't a problem as long as you're not ending multiple consecutive turns with Flip Flop Frog as your only defense, and if you are, you have problems far worse than whether your Flip Flop Frog is in Attack Position. In fact, in every other case, it's typically beneficial, because it means your Flip Flop Frog's protected against effect damage for future Aegis uses during your opponent's turn (see: JD nuke, DAD destruction, Black Rose nuke, etc).

And to that end, this is all just my opinion. I'm not flat-out saying Threatening Roar is bad or anything. I just think that, given the limited space, in my deck, I'd rather use those spots to protect myself against some other potential weakness.

[Inmato]

My Sneak Preview was great

I pulled:
Oracle of The Sun (SR)
Djinn Disserere of Rituals (SCR)
Witch of The Black Rose (UR)
Gravekeeper's Priestess (Promo)
Absolute Powerforce T-Shirt

I ended up with:
Ally Of Justice Catastor
Mist Wurm
Gravekeeper's Priestess x3
Gravekeeper's Descendant x2
Gravekeeper's Stele x7
Debris Dragon x2


Along the way, I traded Witch of The Black Rose. Oracle of The Sun and Djinn Disserere of Rituals are on ebay.

Not one person pulled Visionary T_T


The bright side is that my Gravekeeper synchro-cat deck OTKed blackwings and won me a match. I pulled off Spy -> Priestess -> Summoner Monk -> Cat -> Airbellum x2 -> Tempest + Arcanite -> GG.

I also OTKed a cheating burn deck with Frogs. I supposedly gave him no damage, even though I inflicted over 3000 by that point in the duel. He given me tokens with Ojama Trio. In the end, he gave me enough resources to hit with 9100 points of damage in one turn.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Originally Posted by Inmato

My Sneak Preview was great

I pulled:
Absolute Powerforce T-Shirt

You pulled a T-shirt out of a pack?! O_O

Sounds like you did good, bro! Feel like trading that Mist Wurm?

[Inmato]

The pack was awfully large and T-shirt shaped.

Sorry, I'm keeping the Mist Wurm, it's amazing in my Amulet of Ambition deck.

Unless you happen to have multiple GK Visionary cards.

[Wanboar]

I have a visionary. And need an oracle.