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Old 11-29-2009, 06:33 AM   #1
Final Darkness
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Default Grand Mole vs Catastor

What would happen? Also, If Catastor is facedown, will its effect activate?
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:45 AM   #2
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Oops look like I was wrong.

Last edited by felixng2009 : 11-29-2009 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:46 AM   #3
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Mole ultimately "wins".

Catastor's mandatory trigger effect goes on the chain first, while Mole's optional trigger effect is placed second (if its controller wishes to activate it). Resolve backwards, the two are bounced, then Catastor resolves without effect because the monster it was battling is no longer present to be destroyed.

A face-down Catastor will not activate, nor will Catastor activate if it attacks a face-down monster. Catastor's effect occurs at the start of the damage step, before monsters are flipped face-up.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Catastor text: 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters
If this card battles a non-DARK monster, destroy that monster without applying damage calculation.
Quote:
Mole's text: If this card attacks or is attacked by an opponent's monster, you can return both monsters to their owners' hands at the start of the Damage Step (without damage calculation).
Since there are two, conflicting, opinions here... I agree with Elliot, and offer a more detailed explanation...
Note that Catastor says "destroy".... NOT you can destroy. This makes it mandatory and goes on the chain 1st (as EG said).

Mole specifically says "you can" - it's optional and goes on the chain second, assuming the controller wants to activate it. Resolving backwards: Mole bounces both (Catastor to the ED), Catastor tries to destroy, lo and behold nothing on the field to destroy.

Effects never apply to face down monsters (unless the card's text specifically states it - and I can't think of one that does off the top of my head).
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanM View Post
...

Effects never apply to face down monsters (unless the card's text specifically states it - and I can't think of one that does off the top of my head).
Big Shield Gardna =P

Question already answered by Elliot and DanM
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:47 PM   #6
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So Mole always crap all over Catastor? That is good to know.
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Darkness View Post
So Mole always crap all over Catastor? That is good to know.
As long as Mole is face-up when entering the Damage Step.
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:52 PM   #8
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And its effect isn't being negated for some reason.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:38 PM   #9
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Mole's effect occur at the beginning of the damage calculation, what does Catastor's effect occur?
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
Mole's effect occur at the beginning of the damage calculation, what does Catastor's effect occur?
Since apparently you cannot be bothered to read previous posts in this thread, like this one http://www.pojo.biz/board/showpost.p...92&postcount=3, Catastor activates at the same time.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:43 PM   #11
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I thought there is a different like Honest VS. Kalut.

If Catastor attacks Mole is different from Mole attacking Catastor? I think there should be a difference to which activate the effect first, depends on who attack first?
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
I thought there is a different like Honest VS. Kalut.

If Catastor attacks Mole is different from Mole attacking Catastor? I think there should be a difference to which activate the effect first, depends on who attack first?
1.- What difference?

2.- No, why would it?
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:48 PM   #13
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1. If kalut is discarded first, opponent can discard honest. Since it resolves backward, honest boast than Kalut?

So from this if Catastor attacks first should his effect activate first?
And if Grand Mole attacks first, shouldn't the opponent choose to activate the first and than... So...
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
1. If kalut is discarded first, opponent can discard honest. Since it resolves backward, honest boast than Kalut?

So from this if Catastor attacks first should his effect activate first?
And if Grand Mole attacks first, shouldn't the opponent choose to activate the first and than... So...
1.- No and that has nothing to do.

2.- No, here is no difference.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:52 PM   #15
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So grand mole activate first? So it same for Warrior Lady, Grand mole bounces first?

3. How do you know which effect activate first?
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
So grand mole activate first? So it same for Warrior Lady, Grand mole bounces first?

3. How do you know which effect activate first?
1.- No.
2.- Yes, but MUCH earlier, DDWL activates several substeps later.
3.- Analyze their activation timing and apply SEGOC if necessary.
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:59 PM   #17
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SEGOC? What is that?
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:02 PM   #18
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Simultaneous effects going on a chain.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
SEGOC? What is that?
Simultaneous Effects Go On a Chain.

It goes:

1. Turn Player's Mandatory Effects
2. Opponent's Mandatory Effects
3. Turn Player's Optional Effects
4. Opponent's Optional Effects


So work down the list, Catastor is a Mandatory Effect, and Grand Mole is an Optional effect, no matter who's turn it is, (and obviously going with that, no matter who is attacking) Catastor will ACTIVATE, and be placed on the Chain before Grand Mole will, and then the Chain resolves backwards, and Grand Mole bounces the two monsters, and then Catastor will attempt to destroy Grand Mole, but it can't, because Grand Mole is safely bounced to the hand.

Edit:

Also, cmiiw oh mighty Pojo-smarties.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
1. Turn Player's Mandatory Effects
2. Opponent's Mandatory Effects
3. Turn Player's Optional Effects
4. Opponent's Optional Effects
So from this its Mandatory effect first. And like i said i was right on track of something, it was not who attacks first. It is who's turn first, who's effect activates.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
So from this its Mandatory effect first. And like i said i was right on track of something, it was not who attacks first. It is who's turn first, who's effect activates.
Nope, nothing will ever change on Mole vs Catastor, it doesn't matter whose turn it is or who attacks.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Nope, nothing will ever change on Mole vs Catastor, it doesn't matter whose turn it is or who attacks.
I figure after he explained it up. I was referring to both monsters with Mandatory effects or both monsters with optional effects. In this case, who's turn matters.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
I figure after he explained it up. I was referring to both monsters with Mandatory effects or both monsters with optional effects. In this case, who's turn matters.
In those situation yes.

But Catastor vs Mole is mandatory vs optional.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
In those situation yes.

But Mole vs Catastor is mandatory vs optional.
Yes that is cleared now.
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