super saiyan mystic gohan?

[MooooooCow]

Originally Posted by megamanX3

Again, no training for 17 years is evidence enough that he lost power. Not to mention how weak he was in GT compared to DBZ. So far, the only arguments you and Tien & these other crappy people have made are:

It's only evidence if you can prove that he should have lost power. Which you haven't done.

1. you say we have no evidence, yet we give plenty of it...as well as common sense

You keep saying so, yet post none. That's kind of a good strategy if you're trying to filibuster, but not if you're trying to debate.

2. we're using a plothole to prove its not a plothole...kinda hard to do that when it's easily not a plothole

You still can't use the fact that it exists to validate it.

Not to mention i already posted the definition of potential. Him realizing what he is capable of doing or become has nothing with him going SSJ. His power drops just like his martial arts form. Nobody but myself and apocolypse has given anything that makes sense or even has used support to back it up.

And Timsey soundly destroyed your argument using your definition of potential.

I've said it countless times in this topic, even if he lost all of his power in 17 years you still have to prove that he COULD use SSJ, not that he needs to, or wants to, or anything else.

Now for the last time, put up or shut up.

[Yūgi's Black Magician]

Just wanted to point out a little something: Pilaf and his men are gag villains. I seriously doubt they count as 'evil' (although it is doubtful Toriyama even thought of those three considering we hadn't seen them since the Daimaô arc).


But yeah, you can't apply logic to Dragon Ball. It's part gag comic, after all.

[apocalypse1280]

Finally, someone with a brain.

[Toji]

Originally Posted by apocalypse1280

Finally, someone with a brain.

Yes, i quite agree. Some one with WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT!

Instead of that "He got weaker" Tripe. This guy ACTUALLY makes an argument.

[apocalypse1280]

I made the exact same argument, lame brain. If you have nothing to say then why embarrass yourself? Of course, there's no way Gohan got weaker right?

[MooooooCow]

It's the only decent argument I've seen him make on this forum actually.

But almost every villain in dragonball up to piccolo (11 volumes) was in some way a gag villain. That didn't stop most of them from being evil.

[tienshinhan08]

Originally Posted by apocalypse1280

I made the exact same argument, lame brain. If you have nothing to say then why embarrass yourself? Of course, there's no way Gohan got weaker right?

Of course you still haven't proven that he could get weaker, and even if he did that he would need to go SSJ. That's because you can't prove it.

[MooooooCow]

He's also completely ignored the whole dead people dying plothole

Though I would too, because its directly stated that dead people can die.

[apocalypse1280]

Number 1. You are saying that Gohan can't get weaker, which happens to every other character in the entire series. Therefore you have to prove that he doesn't, not the other way around, and you can't. Mostly because I speak facts.

Number 2. This was already discussed. It was said early in DBZ by King Kai that Goku cannot die twice. Then it was changed at the end of DBZ, than changed again in GT, if anything correcting the latter. Get a clue.

[tienshinhan08]

We have said that it isn't proven that he can get weaker. Although even if he does get weaker, it doesn't mean he would be able to go SSJ again.

His mystic form allows him to access his full potential, and potential doesn't go down. Nowhere does it say that this would wear it off.

[FutureTrunksSSJ1]

Originally Posted by MooooooCow

He's also completely ignored the whole dead people dying plothole

Though I would too, because its directly stated that dead people can die.

That would be a plothole. I'm currently watching all 9 seasons and am on season 2. While watching, i picked up on something King Kai said. No implication, no beating around the bush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhDNs...eature=related
Start about 3:30, and it's completely relevant.

King Kai- "Hey, don't worry. You're forgetting, you're already dead. You can't die a second time you know."

I remember later in the series that someone said if you die again, you lose your body forever and not even the dragon balls can wish the person back to life. So the dying able to die is a plothole since in season 2 it directly states the dead cant die.

[MooooooCow]

I think you posted it before. Though I have no idea if its in the manga or not. I don't have volumes 17-20.

[FutureTrunksSSJ1]

Anyway, the whole dying dead thing is a big plothole since the series has one episode that says the dead cant die again and another says u can.

[MooooooCow]

Like I said the whole concept of hell in the anime is one big plot hole anyway.

So this is just a plot hole to another plot hole.

[apocalypse1280]

Originally Posted by megamanX3

Anyway, the whole dying dead thing is a big plothole since the series has one episode that says the dead cant die again and another says u can.

When they're wrong all you'll hear is "I don't know if it's in the manga", lol. Moomoo is in denial, again.

[MooooooCow]

It's great that even when I admit I don't know something you want to argue with me

[CONTAK]

Hi I am new here and I love dragonball and i want to give my take on this.

"Potential is not Power" this is true someone's potential is not their power

but, potential can go down and can go up

ex: i may have great potential to be the best basketball player there is but what if tomorow my arms get severed in a horrible accident? Now my potential to be a great basketball player has gone down.

This is not the case for gohan though, lets just say he did get weaker over the 17 year period or whatever. Nothing has happened to him where he is unable to train. I know he has a job but he can still physically train back to what he was at the end of dragonballz. So Gohans potential did not change only his current power in GT.

As far as Gohan turning super saiyan in GT it still doesn't make sense. In DBZ when Gohan gained the ability given to him by the Kai he is suppose to be able to power up to the power of his super saiyan levels without transforming. Why would this be benificial to Gohan? because, Super Saiyan wears down the fighter over time. So with this new ability Gohan can fight longer without the wear of being Super Saiyan. Gohan never lost this ability between the time he attained it and the time he goes Super Saiyan in GT. Since Gohan never trained to have this ability, not training over time would have no effect on this ability. You can say he lost it when he was absorbed by buu, but buu's power still grew from it and when he absorbed Vegitto, Buu's magic stopped the fusion and buu didn't get any stronger. So Gohan still had this ability even after being absorbed. So on to GT Gohan turns super saiyan when he could have just powered up to the same power level using the ability the Kai gave him. Since GT never explains why this happens, it makes it a PLOTHOLE.

[apocalypse1280]

Originally Posted by CONTAK

Since GT never explains why this happens, it makes it a PLOTHOLE.

And DBZ never explains why Trunks, Goten and Bulla don't have tails. They're both explainable.

[tienshinhan08]

Nobody here is saying that Vegeta's tail not growing back isn't a plothole.

However it's much less glaring of a plothole than Gohan going SSJ in GT. Vegeta makes that comment in a kind of offhand way before he gets healed. But him not having a tail has very little affect on the storyline of DBZ.

[apocalypse1280]

Originally Posted by tienshinhan08

Nobody here is saying that Vegeta's tail not growing back isn't a plothole.

However it's much less glaring of a plothole than Gohan going SSJ in GT.

Hahaha! You lose again. Although I rewrote my comment into what I meant to say last night.

[tienshinhan08]

Uh, ok.

Again, them not having tails isn't exactly a huge plothole. For one, they are only half saiyan. But even if it is a plothole, is it that important? Do you think that during the Buu Saga someone was going to throw a fake moon up so that Trunks and Goten could transform? They still wouldn't be close to strong enough to make a difference.

However Gohan should be one of the most powerful fighters in the series come GT's time, but they make him look like he's nothing. That is probably another reason why GT sucks and failed-a lot of people liked Gohan, and yet GT makes him a side character, hardly even part of the storyline.

[MooooooCow]

Originally Posted by apocalypse1280

When they're wrong all you'll hear is "I don't know if it's in the manga", lol. Moomoo is in denial, again.

So guess what I read through where goku trains with kaiosama and it's not there. So yes, still a plot hole.

Nobody here is saying that Vegeta's tail not growing back isn't a plothole.

I know, he seems to think it's some kind of big admission on our part, when no one has ever said differently. The thing is, if all saiyans had tails through the rest of the series, the story wouldn't have changed one bit.

Which is not true for the plot holes discussed here. Other plot holes in the manga include the two dates in the cell saga not adding up to 10 days and cell regenerating after his core was destroyed.

[apocalypse1280]

Originally Posted by tienshinhan08

Again, them not having tails isn't exactly a huge plothole. For one, they are only half saiyan.

This is a perfect example of why nothing else you say matters.

Originally Posted by MooooooCow

So guess what I read through where goku trains with kaiosama and it's not there. So yes, still a plot hole.

It's not a matter of whether or not it's in the manga. The point is we're talking about the anime. GT is a continuation of the anime, where it was stated.

[tienshinhan08]

And they are also half human. So maybe you could refresh my memory: do krillin, yamcha, or tien have tails?

[MooooooCow]

The anime is just a big mass of plot holes.

Even more so than GT.

And since there's a source material to the anime I'm going to use it. Since there isn't one for GT I have to use the anime.